BBCE to start wrapping already shrink wrapped Modern Boxes
 

Service will be available in 2022.
Question is, would you pay more for a BBCE shrink wrapped, already Manufacturer shrink wrapped Box?
They will be putting a new version of their wrap over the existing wrap- not removing what’s there.

I have never had a problem with fake Factory wrap — then again, since I never open anything, I really wouldn’t know! Have any of you experienced fake Factory wrap / modern Box tampering?

I would be open to this for my high end PC Boxes — but not just for the hell of it / would need to increase their desirability and value, when and if I decide to Sell.

[QUOTE=cardsin47;17771268]…. in 2022.
Question is, would you pay more for a BBCE shrink wrapped, already Manufacturer shrink wrapped Box?
I have never had a problem with fake Factory wrap — then again, since I never open anything, I really wouldn’t know! [B]Have any of you heard of fake Factory wrap?[/B][/QUOTE]

Yes. I know of 2 specific products that have been targeted by re-wrappers who have replicated the Topps logo shrink wrap. If I know of 2, there are many more I'm sure. I see no reason why they would have stopped at those. And before its asked, I am not sharing what those products are. Blowout sells wax, and although I am 100% confident in their supply, negative news in other areas of the same wax would directly cause a market price change and negatively affect their business.

[IMG]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211105/ee117d55b80a9bfd145e775ae8b03d60.jpg[/IMG]

[SIZE="6"][COLOR="Magenta"]Example ….[/COLOR][/SIZE]


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I think it would be interesting if they provided a service where they opened a case to verify contents and then wrapped the case.

[QUOTE=premium1981;17771282]Yes. I know of 2 specific products that have been targeted by re-wrappers who have replicated the Topps logo shrink wrap. If I know of 2, there are many more I'm sure. I see no reason why they would have stopped at those. And before its asked, I am not sharing what those products are. Blowout sells wax, and although I am 100% confident in their supply, negative news in other areas of the same wax would directly cause a market price change and negatively affect their business.[/QUOTE]

Are you a collector or distributor?
Not sure why all card collectors in general wouldn’t share this information to help their peers..?

On another note, I don’t think your post on a public forum would have enough value to swing any type of market...

[QUOTE=JoeAdam;17771300]I think it would be interesting if they provided a service where they opened a case to verify contents and then wrapped the case.[/QUOTE]

Can't say "factory sealed" once that has happened. If they were going to dig into the product like that, might as well open the packs and make sure they weren't resealed.

[QUOTE=tyblain;17771326]Are you a collector or distributor?
Not sure why all card collectors in general wouldn’t share this information to help their peers..?

On another note, I don’t think your post on a public forum would have enough value to swing any type of market...[/QUOTE]

I do everything, but no, I am not a distributor. It isn't fair for me to put a blanket across any product as resealed. I don't know the volume that has been resealed and I don't just throw stuff out as hobby altering facts unless I have more information and know the good vs bad that the information will cause once released. My post was simply made to give caution, as the OP asked if fake factory wrap was a thing. I answered his question and said it was a thing.

[QUOTE=premium1981;17771328]Can't say "factory sealed" once that has happened. If they were going to dig into the product like that, might as well open the packs and make sure they weren't resealed.[/QUOTE]

I think that's a bit extreme.

This has absolutely become an issue on unopened collectors radar. I've spent the last three years accumulating blaster boxes from the past 20 years to determine logo pattern, seal points, cellophane thickness, and an array of other characteristics so as to be able to distinguish between real and resealed product.

Because of this, I've been hoping for a long time that BBCE would begin doing this. I don't think eople realize how much modern resealed stuff is out there.

Arthur

[QUOTE=JoeAdam;17771434]I think that's a bit extreme.[/QUOTE]

Forgot to add my sarcasm tag.:D

[QUOTE=HarryLime;17771535]This has absolutely become an issue on unopened collectors radar. I've spent the last three years accumulating blaster boxes from the past 20 years to determine logo pattern, seal points, cellophane thickness, and an array of other characteristics so as to be able to distinguish between real and resealed product.

Because of this, I've been hoping for a long time that BBCE would begin doing this.[B] I don't think eople realize how much modern resealed stuff is out there.
[/B]
Arthur[/QUOTE]

If You’re right? …… I’m one who didn’t realize ! :eek:

Im going to start a service to start wrapping BBCE shrink wrapped boxes in kitchen plastic wrap and put my guarantee on it.

[QUOTE=Dielon;17772007]Im going to start a service to start wrapping BBCE shrink wrapped boxes in kitchen plastic wrap and put my guarantee on it.[/QUOTE]

[IMG]https://media.giphy.com/media/iKBAAfYNDu1dowhnEj/giphy.gif[/IMG]

I wonder if (assume) they would offer this as an add-on charge for boxes they sell. I bought one box from BBCE recently that I would probably have wrapped.

[QUOTE=HarryLime;17771535]This has absolutely become an issue on unopened collectors radar. I've spent the last three years accumulating blaster boxes from the past 20 years to determine logo pattern, seal points, cellophane thickness, and an array of other characteristics so as to be able to distinguish between real and resealed product.

Because of this, I've been hoping for a long time that BBCE would begin doing this.[B] I don't think eople realize how much modern resealed stuff is out there.
[/B]
Arthur[/QUOTE]



Respectfully Harry/Arthur, I disagree.


Sorry for the longwinded response in advance.

For those on these boards who know me, I've collected unopened wax seriously since 2000. I've bought and sold from the big three numerous times since then and have over 700+ boxes in my collection. [B]I really think this is not a big issue. My reasons are detailed below.[/B]


1. Modern wax is hard to fake: The modern wrap from topps/panini is hard to replicate. All it takes is one mis-wrapped box to see the difference.
2. Check the round tape seal: It's hard to fake this. I once bought a 2018 topps update box with a pube in the tape seal. Immediate return. :mad:
3. Check the wrap: Loose seals typically mean a re-wrap. This is easily evident on large/jumbo boxes. [B]ALWAYS [/B]check the box integrity!
4. Check the seller: The big three are usually safe.[B] ALWAYS [/B]re-search individual sellers on ebay.
5. Be on alert with walmart/target: It goes without saying, look for re-sealed product from these sellers.



That being said, with new and uneducated buyers entering the hobby, this unfortunately may be the direction we are headed. Which means I may be paying a premium to "wrap" my boxes (that I know are legit) when I eventually sell them.:(



edit: It's really about experience. Once you've been fooled, you become more diligent. This is not a significant issue IMO.

[QUOTE=cardsin47;17771268]Service will be available in 2022.
Question is, would you pay more for a BBCE shrink wrapped, already Manufacturer shrink wrapped Box?
They will be putting a new version of their wrap over the existing wrap- not removing what’s there.
I have never had a problem with fake Factory wrap — then again, since I never open anything, I really wouldn’t know! Have any of you heard of fake Factory wrap / modern Box tampering?

I would be open to this for my high end PC Boxes — but not just for the hell of it / would need to increase their desirability and value, when and I decide to Sell.[/QUOTE]

I would think the benefit with it is simple.... "From a Sealed Case"

This factors heavily into modern cases with those "case hits" that people see and there IS a market for that.

[IMG]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211106/004e278caf4fc953eb5973c3b65d8bb9.jpg[/IMG]


[SIZE="6"][COLOR="Magenta"][B]Posted on IG Today[/B][/COLOR][/SIZE]


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[QUOTE=Archangel1775;17772327]I would think the benefit with it is simple.... "From a Sealed Case"

This factors heavily into modern cases with those "case hits"[B][B] that people see and there IS a market for that.[/QUOTE]
[/B][/B]



I do agree with this, but, I thought they already did this?

I dont think I will be sending modern boxes for
Another layer of shrink wrap. Gets too pricey for me.

[QUOTE=jmsodpc;17772393]I dont think I will be sending modern boxes for
Another layer of shrink wrap. Gets too pricey for me.[/QUOTE]




I will see what they charge.

If they charge $250 to wrap my 2012 prizm basketball box, that will be an easy pass for me.

unless they have a 99% success rate I'll say it's dumb.

He charges 8% of his buy price.
His buy price is like half of the retail price

Far less older wax out there now. My guess is with that running out, they needed to start trying to cash in wrapping newer stuff. Complete waste of money in my opinion.

[QUOTE=JoeAdam;17771434]I think that's a bit extreme.[/QUOTE]

Agreed......... and I've sold BBCE/Steve many boxes and cases over the last 20 years.

[QUOTE=cruiserdaddy7;17772610]Far less older wax out there now. My guess is with that running out, they needed to start trying to cash in wrapping newer stuff. Complete waste of money in my opinion.[/QUOTE]

Worse than a waste of money if it means placing all of your trust into whoever authenticated the box. Otherwise putting another layer of shrinkwrap over the original wrap just obscures any signs of reshrinkwrapping.

[QUOTE=Dielon;17772007]Im going to start a service to start wrapping BBCE shrink wrapped boxes in kitchen plastic wrap and put my guarantee on it.[/QUOTE]


You can’t triple wrap a double wrap!
[IMG]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211106/51ee11285a73addad58faffd1e576e72.jpg[/IMG]


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[QUOTE=blackbears86;17772309]Respectfully Harry/Arthur, I disagree.


Sorry for the longwinded response in advance.

For those on these boards who know me, I've collected unopened wax seriously since 2000. I've bought and sold from the big three numerous times since then and have over 700+ boxes in my collection. [B]I really think this is not a big issue. My reasons are detailed below.[/B]


1. Modern wax is hard to fake: The modern wrap from topps/panini is hard to replicate. All it takes is one mis-wrapped box to see the difference.
2. Check the round tape seal: It's hard to fake this. I once bought a 2018 topps update box with a pube in the tape seal. Immediate return. :mad:
3. Check the wrap: Loose seals typically mean a re-wrap. This is easily evident on large/jumbo boxes. [B]ALWAYS [/B]check the box integrity!
4. Check the seller: The big three are usually safe.[B] ALWAYS [/B]re-search individual sellers on ebay.
5. Be on alert with walmart/target: It goes without saying, look for re-sealed product from these sellers.



That being said, with new and uneducated buyers entering the hobby, this unfortunately may be the direction we are headed. Which means I may be paying a premium to "wrap" my boxes (that I know are legit) when I eventually sell them.:(



edit: It's really about experience. Once you've been fooled, you become more diligent. This is not a significant issue IMO.[/QUOTE]

I'm going to respectfully disagree, as well. It's not hard to reseal most modern releases from the past 20 years. Also, you say it's not an issue but then go on to talk about numerous ways in which you employ detecting resealed wax and how you've returned it.

That's great for you. You clearly have extensive experience in all of the idiosyncrasies of this area. But the overwhelming majority of collectors do not have this experience and, in fact, the idea of their modern box being resealed never even crosses their mind. It's for those people that this issue needs to be brought to the forefront and why the service is being offered.

Just because you can spot a resealed box easily doesn't mean others can.

Arthur

A couple points:

1. Doesn’t BBCE already have a backlog issue?
2. If you can’t tell if factory wrap has been tampered with; you deserve what you get.

[QUOTE=HarryLime;17773131]I'm going to respectfully disagree, as well. It's not hard to reseal most modern releases from the past 20 years. Also, you say it's not an issue but then go on to talk about numerous ways in which you employ detecting resealed wax and how you've returned it.

That's great for you. You clearly have extensive experience in all of the idiosyncrasies of this area. But the overwhelming majority of collectors do not have this experience and, in fact, the idea of their modern box being resealed never even crosses their mind. It's for those people that this issue needs to be brought to the forefront and why the service is being offered.

Just because you can spot a resealed box easily doesn't mean others can.

Arthur[/QUOTE]

It may not be hard to reseal newer boxes but making them look exactly like factory shrinkwrapped boxes is a different matter. You don't need extensive experience to spot resealed boxes either. Search BO you'll see it's been discussed before.

[QUOTE=Jon G;17773213]A couple points:

1. Doesn’t BBCE already have a backlog issue?
2. If you can’t tell if factory wrap has been tampered with; you deserve what you get.[/QUOTE]

Being able to spot a resealed box doesn't mean you won't be stuck with it. Your credit card servicer might not realize, or even care, what a reshrinkwrappee box is.

[QUOTE=Pacmeyer;17773248]Being able to spot a resealed box doesn't mean you won't be stuck with it. Your credit card servicer might not realize, or even care, what a reshrinkwrappee box is.[/QUOTE]
You have a tremendous amount of protection in a possible combination of PayPal G&S and a credit card. Citi Bank is fantastic based on my experiences.

[QUOTE=HarryLime;17773131]I'm going to respectfully disagree, as well. It's not hard to reseal most modern releases from the past 20 years. Also, you say it's not an issue but then go on to talk about numerous ways in which you employ detecting resealed wax and how you've returned it.

That's great for you. You clearly have extensive experience in all of the idiosyncrasies of this area. But the overwhelming majority of collectors do not have this experience and, in fact, the idea of their modern box being resealed never even crosses their mind. It's for those people that this issue needs to be brought to the forefront and why the service is being offered.

Just because you can spot a resealed box easily doesn't mean others can.

Arthur[/QUOTE]






We are going to agree to disagree sir:)!



It's really not rocket science. The methods I use to detect re-sealed wax are not intricate or complicated. I just use my eyes.



All of my recommendations involve some common sense and just a little experience. Just like anything else pertaining to collecting: Grading cards, buying a prospect/rookie you think has potential, and yes-----buying sealed wax.



As others have said, perhaps the market for wrapping vintage might be drying up, maybe that's why BBCE is now offering this service. I truly do not feel this is a service I would use, but we will see how this plays out over the next few years. I may need to re-consider my options if a BBCE "wrapped" 2011 topps update box brings a considerable premium over an unwrapped topps factory wrapped box at auction.



Edit: This might seem harsh, but if people are buying wax from Walmart/Target and not looking their boxes over, that's on them. Walmart ESPECIALLY is notorious for returned/searched/re-sealed product. This has been brought up ad-nauseum on these boards. I look over every box I buy, I don't care if it's from a seller on ebay with 10 feedback, the local card shop, or blowout, but I especially scrutinize boxes from Walmart.

BBCE Policy prior to this announcement:
1. They do not wrap boxes that already have a factory wrap.
2. They will wrap factory sealed cases (includes modern)

Problem: With product case costs these days, it would be nice to buy a box for $2000 instead of a case for $24,000. But what about the case hit? It's probably cherry picked. Damn, it, oh well.

Solution: BBCE opens a factory sealed case and wraps each box(that's already factory wrapped) "From a Sealed Case". BBCE changes previous policy to meet that demand. Some would call this a competitive advantage.

Wait, so you mean the case hit could still be in there!? Yes!

If anyone has opened 2020 Topps Dynasty F1, a case contains 4 boxes. There is 1 big case hit, 2 decent drivers and 1 principal. There was a 50 box break in the Racing forum. About $200K in unopened. Many were single box purchases. That's about 12 cases. There were 20 principals in that break when it should have been 12-14. Fortunately, the breaker hit a 1/1 that paid for most of it. Otherwise, you can see how important "From a Sealed Case" can be.

[QUOTE=Jon G;17773485]You have a tremendous amount of protection in a possible combination of PayPal G&S and a credit card. Citi Bank is fantastic based on my experiences.[/QUOTE]

Definitely the buyer protections will vary widely among different cards. I'd say avoid BofA whenever possible.

[QUOTE=blackbears86;17773764]We are going to agree to disagree sir:)!



[B]It's really not rocket science. The methods I use to detect re-sealed wax are not intricate or complicated. I just use my eyes. [/B]



All of my recommendations involve some common sense and just a little experience. Just like anything else pertaining to collecting: Grading cards, buying a prospect/rookie you think has potential, and yes-----buying sealed wax.



As others have said, perhaps the market for wrapping vintage might be drying up, maybe that's why BBCE is now offering this service. I truly do not feel this is a service I would use, but we will see how this plays out over the next few years. I may need to re-consider my options if a BBCE "wrapped" 2011 topps update box brings a considerable premium over an unwrapped topps factory wrapped box at auction.



Edit: This might seem harsh, but if people are buying wax from Walmart/Target and not looking their boxes over, that's on them. Walmart ESPECIALLY is notorious for returned/searched/re-sealed product. This has been brought up ad-nauseum on these boards. I look over every box I buy, I don't care if it's from a seller on ebay with 10 feedback, the local card shop, or blowout, but I especially scrutinize boxes from Walmart.[/QUOTE]

In addition to the resealing using transparent tape you mentioned, buyers should be on the lookout for stiff, thickened, crooked and/or broken seams which could all be signs of a cheap shrinkwrap machine. Comparison with other identical products should be relied upon whenever possible since even factory wrapped boxes may have flaws in the shrinkwrap including stretched out watermarking. Not a complete list by any means.