Panini or Upper Deck?
 

I thought that with all the rants on panini I might make this poll

Who do you like better??????????:)

hmmmmmmmmmmm panini sticker autos and bad redemption services or ud lebron mj exquisite ud black and actually not that bad redemption services it's so hard:rolleyes:

forgot to mention some of panini's autos are upside down on the wrong player or covered up

If it wasn't for UD's awful CS I would have voted for them.

So whats the best $50-60 Box from either company?

10-11 ultimate collection for ud 10-11 limited for panini

[QUOTE=Celtsfan33;1673546]So whats the best $50-60 Box from either company?[/QUOTE]

I love me some 10-11 Donruss.

I already busted that
I want to bust some ultimate ( 1 box)
is it good????????
Im afraid it gonna suck

[QUOTE=sunsfan8;1673552]10-11 ultimate collection for ud 10-11 limited for panini[/QUOTE]

listen to this guy:) do i need to show you my jordan auto?

[QUOTE=Celtsfan33;1673609]I already busted that
I want to bust some ultimate ( 1 box)
is it good????????
Im afraid it gonna suck[/QUOTE]

Too big of a Hit or miss, mostly being a miss. I would try some 09-10 products, better rookie class for sure, although prices have went way up because of that.

Try this, solid deal here:
[url=http://www.blowoutcards.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=10_154&products_id=3944]2009/10 Panini Court Kings Basketball Hobby Box - $63.90 : Blowout Cards - Sports Cards and Trading Cards Wholesale Online Store[/url]

[QUOTE=jp98;1673626]Too big of a Hit or miss, mostly being a miss. I would try some 09-10 products, better rookie class for sure, although prices have went way up because of that.

Try this, solid deal here:
[url=http://www.blowoutcards.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=10_154&products_id=3944]2009/10 Panini Court Kings Basketball Hobby Box - $63.90 : Blowout Cards - Sports Cards and Trading Cards Wholesale Online Store[/url][/QUOTE]
Court Kings?
Ive seen some crappy boxes of that stuff

[QUOTE=sunsfan8;1673622]listen to this guy:) do i need to show you my jordan auto?[/QUOTE]
how many boxes did you bust to get that????? :)

[QUOTE=Celtsfan33;1673682]how many boxes did you bust to get that????? :)[/QUOTE]

4 but it was in the first 1

[QUOTE=Celtsfan33;1673681]Court Kings???????
Ive seen some reaaaaaaalllllllyyyyyy crappy boxes of that stuff

I have a policy tha i by a box once every three months

so if i screw up ill have to wait[/QUOTE]

Yeah well it is the only box in your range from 09-10. If you can save up a little more there are other 09-10 boxes that might be better.

[QUOTE=sunsfan8;1673688]4 but it was in the first 1[/QUOTE]
what'd you get in the other 3

[QUOTE=Celtsfan33;1673692]what'd you get in the other 3[/QUOTE]

crap.................

10-11 Ultimate is a pretty bad product. Alot of Mateen Cleeves Autos and Christian Laetners lol.

would it be a good deal if on black friday i got a box for 40 bucks???

[QUOTE=Celtsfan33;1673710]would it be a good deal if on black friday i got a box for 40 bucks???[/QUOTE]
no doubt:)!

Could you give me a list of boxes to buy with a 3 moth gap in between????

[QUOTE=Celtsfan33;1673729]Could you give me a list of boxes to buy with a 3 moth gap in between????[/QUOTE]

10-11 Ultimate
10-11 Limited
10-11 Donruss

08-09 exquisite
08-09 black
09-10 exquisite:p

[QUOTE=sunsfan8;1673764]08-09 exquisite
08-09 black
09-10 exquisite:p[/QUOTE]

(I think she means in here price range, not $400:eek:)

Im a He.....

Blowout has box prices listed on their site. Research on your own isnt that tough.....

[QUOTE=Celtsfan33;1673778]Im a He.....[/QUOTE]

awkward...........

LOL

back to the thread.....I'm waiting for black friday to buy my boxes so that if i get crap it will be ok

[QUOTE=Celtsfan33;1673778]Im a He.....[/QUOTE]

Lol I swear somebody said you were a girl...awkward indeed...:o

Topps! ;)

Nah... I voted for UD.

Of course everyone says UD since black box was just released. I think Panini has awful products, but I love buying Panini Singles. Their products are so hit or miss, but if you buy some of the singles from 'hit' boxes, you can get some really since stuff.

[QUOTE=jameshues;1674122][B]Of course everyone says UD since black box was just released.[/B] I think Panini has awful products, but I love buying Panini Singles. Their products are so hit or miss, but if you buy some of the singles from 'hit' boxes, you can get some really since stuff.[/QUOTE]

No. I think the majority would say UD even before Black Box released. I haven't been impressed with any product that Panini has ever released.

[QUOTE=sunsfan8;1673788]awkward...........[/QUOTE]


Not awkward. This...he/she said that it was a girl in another thread. Many lies have come from this person.

[QUOTE=UltimateDeron;1674159]No. I think the majority would say UD even before Black Box released. I haven't been impressed with any product that Panini has ever released.[/QUOTE]

+1
Panini has gotten progressively worse. I think Black Box was just the last straw for many people, but ofcourse there are people that will buy any crap they put out. Upsidedown manufactured logomen/149?:rolleyes:

[QUOTE=Celtsfan33;1673778]Im a He.....[/QUOTE]

Your a guy? hahaha

Upper deck all day everyday

as alway, panini sucks, crapy product and horrible customer service make it even worse. personally i have better luck with UD, and UD products are more valuable IMO

So who were the 15 people that voted Panini? lol...

Because I dont do a lot of box buying, more just singles, I voted Panini. UD is probably better but I wanted to give Panini a little slack for their nice singles.

[QUOTE=UltimateDeron;1675452]So who were the 15 people that voted Panini? lol...[/QUOTE]

18 now LOL
I'm curious about the same thing, who are the people that voted Panini?

Let me see I can pull a Michael Jordan autograph out of what product? I'll galdy say Upper Deck over Panini.

[QUOTE=coolz;1675657]18 now LOL
I'm curious about the same thing, who are the people that voted Panini?[/QUOTE]

I voted Panini! They do a good job at making money and staying in business. They also dont go out and produce fake cards "Yu Gi Oh blunder"

[QUOTE=jameshues;1675458]Because I dont do a lot of box buying, more just singles, I voted Panini. UD is probably better but I wanted to give Panini a little slack for their nice singles.[/QUOTE]

Show me some of these "nice singles" if you don't mind. This should be good ;)

[QUOTE=UltimateDeron;1676144]Show me some of these "nice singles" if you don't mind. This should be good ;)[/QUOTE]

Well, I do see that you have a bid on my NT Bledsoe RPA so I guess that's a "nice single"

[QUOTE=sesmarine04;1676349]Well, I do see that you have a bid on my NT Bledsoe RPA so I guess that's a "nice single"[/QUOTE]

I know there are some decent cards made by Panini out there. I just wanted to know his opinion of what singles were nice. At the same time, UD made some really nice singles as well. If you have to vote who makes better singles between UD and Panini I believe UD wins in a landslide do to the fact that they have Jordan and Lebron under contract and make some of the best/most beautiful looking cards ever made.

A lot of Panini's set look so similar, as stated here many times. Many of UD's releases were unique to the Specific Product, which is much better.

[QUOTE=UltimateDeron;1676356]I know there are some decent cards made by Panini out there. I just wanted to know his opinion of what singles were nice. At the same time, UD made some really nice singles as well. If you have to vote who makes better singles between UD and Panini I believe UD wins in a landslide do to the fact that they have Jordan and Lebron under contract and make some of the best/most beautiful looking cards ever made.[/QUOTE]

No-one in the entire world could attempt to argue against that.

And the error arguement is pointless. I couldn't care less that UD have made a few errors in the past, as long as its not on one of the cards i have i'll take their best sets as long as i collect.

Panini are allowed to improve in the future tho, and i hope they do, but at the moment they don't seem to take any notice of what collectors have said they want.

[QUOTE=Orangejello727;1676141]I voted Panini! They do a good job at making money and staying in business. They also dont go out and produce fake cards "Yu Gi Oh blunder"[/QUOTE]

So you like Panini more than UD because "they make money" and dont make Yu gi oh cards?

Celtsfan33 - If you are afraid of opening a bad box, don't open. Just buy singles.

But please stop asking the same question over and over like you have for the past month. I get it, you are scared to open Ultimate collection.....

[QUOTE=SPauthentic84;1676513]So you like Panini more than UD because "they make money" and dont make Yu gi oh cards?[/QUOTE]

Umm the Yu gi oh cards reference was to the scam UD pulled over peoples eyes.
[url=http://www.iptrademarkattorney.com/2010/01/counterfeit-trademark-yu-gi-oh-upper-deck-konami-copyright-summary-judgment-court-ruling.html]Court Rules That Upper Deck Sold Counterfeit Yu Gi Oh! Cards :: Los Angeles Intellectual Property Trademark Attorney Blog[/url]

So yea, I like Panini more than UD because UD went out of its way to rip off Konami and sell "Fake" cards to unknowing young collectors. I guess thats ok in your books so as long as they have MJ and lebron autos for you to buy!!

On a business point, Yes I like Panini more than UD. UD just couldnt get their finances right as they suffered huge blows financiallly before losing their liscense in specific sports. Bad business practice led to some troubles. I dont see Panini facing that issue at the moment. THen again Panini in itself is much larger of a company.

So based on my opinion, I prefer Panini over UD because of the lowball moves UD has pulled in the past. THey also started this exclusive signing players thing which has stopped other card companies for making autos and cards of retired players like jordan.

And I like Panini more than UD because from what we have seen thus far, the company is led financially more sound than UD was.

Im surprised with all the sketch moves UD has pulled in the years, that people dont even question the authencity of MJ autos, authentication of jeseys and patches. They pulled off a few stunts over the years. THeyve been caught putting in CUT autos of players that were authenticated by someone yet found to be fake. THey made fake yu gi oh cards and got caught. They pressed more cards after release of a product. And we have even see cards with the same serial number in the market along with non serial numbered cards.

[QUOTE=Orangejello727;1676560]Umm the Yu gi oh cards reference was to the scam UD pulled over peoples eyes.
[url=http://www.iptrademarkattorney.com/2010/01/counterfeit-trademark-yu-gi-oh-upper-deck-konami-copyright-summary-judgment-court-ruling.html]Court Rules That Upper Deck Sold Counterfeit Yu Gi Oh! Cards :: Los Angeles Intellectual Property Trademark Attorney Blog[/url]

So yea, I like Panini more than UD because UD went out of its way to rip off Konami and sell "Fake" cards to unknowing young collectors. I guess thats ok in your books so as long as they have MJ and lebron autos for you to buy!!

On a business point, Yes I like Panini more than UD. UD just couldnt get their finances right as they suffered huge blows financiallly before losing their liscense in specific sports. Bad business practice led to some troubles. I dont see Panini facing that issue at the moment. THen again Panini in itself is much larger of a company.

So based on my opinion, I prefer Panini over UD because of the lowball moves UD has pulled in the past. THey also started this exclusive signing players thing which has stopped other card companies for making autos and cards of retired players like jordan.

And I like Panini more than UD because from what we have seen thus far, the company is led financially more sound than UD was.[/QUOTE]

But from a collecting standpoint and a "making money" standpoint, shouldnt you like UD more because their singles hold more value than most of Paninis?

[QUOTE=SPauthentic84;1676571]But from a collecting standpoint and a "making money" standpoint, shouldnt you like UD more because their singles hold more value than most of Paninis?[/QUOTE]

Why do we keep poking the sleeping bear? It always turns unpleasant for those involved (and those not involved as well).

[QUOTE=SPauthentic84;1676571]But from a collecting standpoint and a "making money" standpoint, shouldnt you like UD more because their singles hold more value than most of Paninis?[/QUOTE]


Not really. From a "making money" standpoint, I could care less which card I buy. Ive made more money from flipping 90s inserts lately that werent UD.

I have no allegance to any card company when I BST to make money. If I was a dedicated collector, Id have some sort of care towards the company I buy from. But not as a flipper. I mean,, shouldnt a true collector want to know for certian that the auto/jersey they have is authentic? and that the verification is accurate? Wouldnt you question it if they had lied in the past? Or fumbled up authentication? Or just turn a blind eye?


Im hoping to buy all the Black dual logomans up on ebat at an average of $10 while people stay away from them. Good cheap set to put together!! :)

[QUOTE=Qboid;1676576]Why do we keep poking the sleeping bear? It always turns unpleasant for those involved (and those not involved as well).[/QUOTE]

Cause Im bored...

[QUOTE=SPauthentic84;1676612]Cause Im bored...[/QUOTE]

Well then by all means, enjoy! :D

[QUOTE=SPauthentic84;1676612]Cause Im bored...[/QUOTE]

That plus you can also Edu"ma'cate yourself from a good lesson!

[QUOTE=Orangejello727;1676624]That plus you can also Edu"ma'cate yourself from a good lesson![/QUOTE]

honestly Im trying too.

If you are flipping the manufactored logomans that majority (not everyone) hates, how are you making money off them?

[QUOTE=SPauthentic84;1676640]honestly Im trying too.

If you are flipping the manufactored logomans that majority (not everyone) hates, how are you making money off them?[/QUOTE]


Just like all inserts, they take time to grow on people. At the moment everyone is hating on them. Hey, if you can pick them up at $10 to $15 a piece especially the ones with autos on them and numberd to less /99, its worth a gamble. Its just a matter of time before few collectors dive in and start buying them or putting together sets.

When a product has no hype, they usually fly under radar till people pick up on them. Black elite as a few of those subsets. Like the USA patch autos, the dual and quad pach booklets. I think those are sleeper sets. Even if they arent, they have a great list of names as combos with great looking patches. Still cant go wrong. Just dont go to war with a PC collector and youll get them cheap. Most good team USA patch/autos become pretty highly collectable in my opinion.

The set also has some odd player cards that dont usually show up. Byron Scott, Detlef Schremph, amongst others that have been missing from various set checklists. These guys tend to sell well for the obscure PC collector looking to fill the collection of these types of players.

[QUOTE=Orangejello727;1676656]Just like all inserts, they take time to grow on people. At the moment everyone is hating on them. Hey, if you can pick them up at $10 to $15 a piece especially the ones with autos on them and numberd to less /99, its worth a gamble. Its just a matter of time before few collectors dive in and start buying them or putting together sets.

When a product has no hype, they usually fly under radar till people pick up on them. Black elite as a few of those subsets. Like the USA patch autos, the dual and quad pach booklets. I think those are sleeper sets. Even if they arent, they have a great list of names as combos with great looking patches. Still cant go wrong. Just dont go to war with a PC collector and youll get them cheap. Most good team USA patch/autos become pretty highly collectable in my opinion.

The set also has some odd player cards that dont usually show up. Byron Scott, Detlef Schremph, amongst others that have been missing from various set checklists. These guys tend to sell well for the obscure PC collector looking to fill the collection of these types of players.[/QUOTE]

How do you find Detlef collectors? Wouldnt they be bidding on them now while they are fresh?

[url=http://www.ebay.com/csc/i.html?LH_Complete=1&_trkparms=65%253A13%257C66%253A2%257C39%253A1&rt=nc&_nkw=elite+black+logoman&_dmpt=US_Basketball&_sticky=1&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_sop=3&_sc=1]elite black logoman | eBay[/url]

a bunch of them ended for very low prices. At those prices, its worth the risk. If not, it makes for a nice set to collect.


[url]http://www.ebay.com/itm/2010-11-Panini-Elite-Black-Kobe-Bryant-Andre-Iguodala-Dual-Logoman-JSY-99-/110745293135?pt=US_Basketball&hash=item19c8ef114f[/url]

A good price to add to any kobe pc collection.

[QUOTE=Qboid;1676554]Celtsfan33 - If you are afraid of opening a bad box, don't open. Just buy singles.

But please stop asking the same question over and over like you have for the past month. I get it, you are scared to open Ultimate collection.....[/QUOTE]

This. :)!:)!:)!

Guessing the buyer thinks these are game worn? :confused:

[url=http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-11-ELITE-BLACK-BOX-LOGOMAN-JERSEY-99-SHAWN-KEMP-KEVIN-DURANT-2010-11-/120779211744?pt=US_Basketball&hash=item1c1f0083e0#ht_784wt_956]10/11 ELITE BLACK BOX LOGOMAN JERSEY /99 SHAWN KEMP/KEVIN DURANT 2010/11 | eBay[/url]

[QUOTE=CmWYNNE3;1676675]Guessing the buyer thinks these are game worn? :confused:

[url=http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-11-ELITE-BLACK-BOX-LOGOMAN-JERSEY-99-SHAWN-KEMP-KEVIN-DURANT-2010-11-/120779211744?pt=US_Basketball&hash=item1c1f0083e0#ht_784wt_956]10/11 ELITE BLACK BOX LOGOMAN JERSEY /99 SHAWN KEMP/KEVIN DURANT 2010/11 | eBay[/url][/QUOTE]

Very possible. Or set/player collectors trying to get the card for the PC and battling it out.

[QUOTE=CmWYNNE3;1676675]Guessing the buyer thinks these are game worn? :confused:

[url=http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-11-ELITE-BLACK-BOX-LOGOMAN-JERSEY-99-SHAWN-KEMP-KEVIN-DURANT-2010-11-/120779211744?pt=US_Basketball&hash=item1c1f0083e0#ht_784wt_956]10/11 ELITE BLACK BOX LOGOMAN JERSEY /99 SHAWN KEMP/KEVIN DURANT 2010/11 | eBay[/url][/QUOTE]

Some people bid high on Kemp cards, but yeah they got tricked by Panini :mad:

OJ- Do you think Panini is tricking their buyers by putting so many logomans on their products?

[QUOTE=SPauthentic84;1676715]OJ- Do you think Panini is tricking their buyers by putting so many logomans on their products?[/QUOTE]

No. I dont think they are tricking them. Are they flooding the market with cards that have seemed very popular in recent times? Yes. Panini doesnt concern itself with the secondary market and how much cards sell for. It doesnt affect them directly unless they were BST in the secondary market.

I think they do what most companies are best at doing. They find what is popular and produce the hell out of it. They make their money and move on to the next fad, and recycle. Its been done on many fronts.

1997 - Jesreys were 1:2500 packs. Today they are 4:1 packs.
1998 - Autos were a few per case. Today they are a few per pack.
1998 - Inserts ranged from 1:4 to 1:288. Today you get 1:1

Everything gets over produced. It starts out rare then becomes common. it was just a matter of time before they did it to Logomen. For a card company it makes sense. Give the people what they want. If you flood the market and it becomes diluted, then work on a new project that you can MSRP out for even more. Works in their favor no matter what. They cant lose.

Are they tricking people? Sure. But not in cards. Their trick is for you to get used to something, let it get old and boring and sell you on the new thing!

The problem is that they did not indicate on the card that they are not real. Common sense says that there is no way they are real, but not everyone uses common sense when buying.

[QUOTE=Qboid;1676747]The problem is that they did not indicate on the card that they are not real. Common sense says that there is no way they are real, but not everyone uses common sense when buying.[/QUOTE]

So you mean there are victims?

[QUOTE=SPauthentic84;1676752]So you mean there are victims?[/QUOTE]

Ok, say your Mom wants to buy you something nice for your collection. She stops in at a local shop or at a mall show. A local dealer has one of those cards cards out and realizes that she does not know much about the hobby and takes advantage of that.

Or, if you don't want to use the relative example, how about someone new to the hobby? They might not realized yet that they are not real. It is their fault for not doing their research, but it also will get them out of the hobby fast because they feel cheated.

If the collecting community demands better authentication on GU cards, then we should be demanding the same thing on manufactured patches. The fact that they did not say they are manufactured tells us they wanted to hide it as much as possible, which hurts people who do not frequent the message boards to get this info.

For us it is common knowledge, not everyone else.

Example:
[url]http://www.blowoutcards.com/forums/basketball/199671-panini-logoman-game-worn-manufactured.html[/url]

Even with UD having 5 year wait time for redemptions and selling counterfeit cards, at least they make good looking cards.

[QUOTE=suki24;1676991]Even with UD having 5 year wait time for redemptions and selling counterfeit cards, at least they make good looking cards.[/QUOTE]

As apposed to.....?

[QUOTE=Qboid;1676771]Ok, say your Mom wants to buy you something nice for your collection. She stops in at a local shop or at a mall show. A local dealer has one of those cards cards out and realizes that she does not know much about the hobby and takes advantage of that.

Or, if you don't want to use the relative example, how about someone new to the hobby? They might not realized yet that they are not real. It is their fault for not doing their research, but it also will get them out of the hobby fast because they feel cheated.

If the collecting community demands better authentication on GU cards, then we should be demanding the same thing on manufactured patches. The fact that they did not say they are manufactured tells us they wanted to hide it as much as possible, which hurts people who do not frequent the message boards to get this info.

For us it is common knowledge, not everyone else.

Example:
[url]http://www.blowoutcards.com/forums/basketball/199671-panini-logoman-game-worn-manufactured.html[/url][/QUOTE]

Great point. OJ, what are your thoughts?

[QUOTE=SPauthentic84;1676752]So you mean there are victims?[/QUOTE]

A victim is someone who gets duped into something led falsely by anothers interpertation on the matter.

So if you buy a logoman for $100 and find out its manufactured, thats not being duped. If someone sells you a fake logoman and tells you its real and authentic and it really isnt, then you got ripped off.

Panini didnt go out and tell everyone these bad boys are authentic. They didnt state on their cards that they are from game worn material. So how can you fault them? Should they state that they are not real? Sure. I rather them state it when they are real. If there is no indication to authenticity then I dont believe its real regarding any card. You think Event Worn makes something real? You think event worn makes a jersey Game used? Hate to burst your bubble but an event worn logoman is just as good as a manufactured one. THe only difference is some witness watched a player put on a jersey and take it off. Tada!! U got an event worn piece of doo doo. Still not compariable to a game used/worn jersey.

[QUOTE=Orangejello727;1677100]A victim is someone who gets duped into something led falsely by anothers interpertation on the matter.

So if you buy a logoman for $100 and find out its manufactured, thats not being duped. If someone sells you a fake logoman and tells you its real and authentic and it really isnt, then you got ripped off.

Panini didnt go out and tell everyone these bad boys are authentic. They didnt state on their cards that they are from game worn material. So how can you fault them? Should they state that they are not real? Sure. I rather them state it when they are real. If there is no indication to authenticity then I dont believe its real regarding any card. You think Event Worn makes something real? You think event worn makes a jersey Game used? Hate to burst your bubble but an event worn logoman is just as good as a manufactured one. THe only difference is some witness watched a player put on a jersey and take it off. Tada!! U got an event worn piece of doo doo. Still not compariable to a game used/worn jersey.[/QUOTE]

An item touched by Jesus will always make it better than that Goatman selling fake Jesus robes.

[QUOTE=suki24;1677126]An item touched by Jesus will always make it better than that Goatman selling fake Jesus robes.[/QUOTE]

2 points, Adande.