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Charlie Barokas: Mercer Island WA, Ebay: manontherock, is a CARD TRIMMER (PSA Graded)
[IMG]https://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/3/9/0/4/2/5/webimg/1049875202_o.jpg[/IMG][IMG]https://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/3/9/0/4/2/5/webimg/1049875203_o.jpg[/IMG][IMG]https://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/3/9/0/4/2/5/webimg/1049875204_o.jpg[/IMG]
[B]47 year old Charles "Charlie" Barokas has been buying and selling for 20 years under his primary Ebay ID of manontherock.[/B] [B]He has lived on Mercer Island in the State of Washington (next to Seattle) for many years.[/B] [IMG]https://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/3/9/0/4/2/5/webimg/1049875181_o.jpg[/IMG] [COLOR="DarkRed"][B]Ebay ID: manontherock (masked: e***o) - VCP masked ID: c***t Ebay ID: charlise2014 (masked e***0) - VCP masked ID: c***l The c***l masked ID has been confirmed as being tied to Barokas by being intermingled around c***t purchased cards when searching through his PSA submission cert runs.[/B][/COLOR] [B]Barokas sells cards through his Ebay account manontherock, consigned through probstein123 and also through online auction houses. Research has shown that many of the cards that he has submitted for grading are resubmissions of purchased cards that have been removed from their slabs with no discernable evidence of alteration. The majority of those resubs are bumped in grade and the profits when sold are tremendous. All cards discovered have been graded by PSA.[/B] [B]One of the distinct differences encountered that separates him from other known card doctor submitters is the very quick turnaround times by PSA. From 2015 until just a few months ago Barokas' usual time span from initial purchase, crackout, trim, PSA grading and sale through consignment was 4 to 5 weeks. He wasted no time getting cards resold. [/B] [B]Over the years Charlie Barokas has been accused or suspected of trimming cards by collectors. There are inferences to this on the Net54 forum. Below is a Net54 snip from 2006 where Charlie Barokas responds to one of the accusations. The red box is profound in that he took his own advice. [/B] [IMG]https://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/3/9/0/4/2/5/webimg/1049875533_o.jpg[/IMG] [B][SIZE="3"]____________________________________________________________________________________________________________[/SIZE][/B] [B][SIZE="3"]Establishing that masked VCP ID c***t is linked to Barokas' manontherock Ebay ID:[/SIZE][/B] [B]The following card is an example of Charlie Barokas using his main Ebay account of manontherock to both purchase the card and sell the same card. The card was purchased on 10/21/15, cracked out and regraded with a bump in grade, and then sold from his Ebay store in the short time span of only 25 days. Most of the cards tracked through research have fast turnaround times as well. As with many of his cards, this card appears to be a resub only. And like most of his resubs, it received a grade bump resulting in a substantial profit. [/B] [B][SIZE="5"]PSA Cert #24921976[/SIZE][/B] [B][SIZE="5"]1950 Bowman Walter Barnes #61 PSA 9 [/SIZE][/B] [B][COLOR="Red"][SIZE="5"]Value gain of $421.23[/COLOR] [/SIZE][/B] This card was purchased by [B]masked VCP ID c***t (Charlie Barokas)[/B] from [B]Ebay seller [url]www.stevenovella.com[/url][/B] as a [B][COLOR="Red"]PSA 8 [/COLOR][/B]for [B][COLOR="Red"]$78.77[/COLOR][/B] on October 21, 2015. [B]VCP snip: [/B] [IMG]https://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/3/9/0/4/2/5/webimg/1049863573_o.jpg[/IMG] Same card was [B]sold by Ebay seller manontherock (Charlie Barokas)[/B] as a[B][COLOR="Red"] PSA 9 [/COLOR][/B]for [B][COLOR="Red"]$500.00[/COLOR][/B] on November 15, 2015. [B]VCP snip: [/B] [IMG]https://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/3/9/0/4/2/5/webimg/1049863571_o.jpg[/IMG] [B]Yellow circles are print, fiber, or chipping identifiers. Card appears to be a crack and resubmit grade bump. [/B] [IMG]https://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/3/9/0/4/2/5/webimg/1049862528_o.jpg[/IMG][IMG]https://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/3/9/0/4/2/5/webimg/1049862533_o.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/3/9/0/4/2/5/webimg/1049862526_o.jpg[/IMG][IMG]https://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/3/9/0/4/2/5/webimg/1049862530_o.jpg[/IMG] [B][SIZE="3"]_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________[/SIZE][/B] [B][SIZE="5"][COLOR="Red"]Trimmed cards:[/COLOR][/SIZE][/B] [B][SIZE="3"]______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________[/SIZE][/B] [B][SIZE="5"]PSA Cert #42504278[/SIZE][/B] [B][SIZE="5"]PSA Set Registry: [COLOR="Blue"]Vintage Corvette - 1951 Bowman[/COLOR] [/SIZE][/B] [B][SIZE="5"]1951 Bowman Billy Cox #224 [/SIZE][/B] [B][COLOR="Red"][SIZE="5"]Value gain of $443.51[/COLOR] [/SIZE][/B] This card was purchased by [B]masked VCP ID c***t (Charlie Barokas)[/B] from [B]Ebay seller uncommons[/B] as a [B][COLOR="Red"]PSA 8 [/COLOR][/B]for [B][COLOR="Red"]$71.49[/COLOR][/B] on December 17, 2018. VCP link: [URL="https://vintagecardprices.com/card/baseball-card-values/1951-Bowman-Billy-Cox-224/69751/PSA/8"]https://vintagecardprices.com/card/baseball-card-values/1951-Bowman-Billy-Cox-224/69751/PSA/8[/URL] Same card was [B]sold by probstein123[/B] as a[B][COLOR="Red"] PSA 9 [/COLOR][/B]for [B][COLOR="Red"]$515.00[/COLOR][/B] on April 04, 2019. VCP link: [URL="https://vintagecardprices.com/card/baseball-card-values/1951-Bowman-Billy-Cox-224/69751/PSA/9"]https://vintagecardprices.com/card/baseball-card-values/1951-Bowman-Billy-Cox-224/69751/PSA/9[/URL] [B]Yellow circles are print, fiber, or chipping identifiers. Red boxes identify trimmed right and bottom edges. [/B] [IMG]https://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/3/9/0/4/2/5/webimg/1049883302_o.jpg[/IMG][IMG]https://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/3/9/0/4/2/5/webimg/1049883290_o.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/3/9/0/4/2/5/webimg/1049883297_o.jpg[/IMG][IMG]https://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/3/9/0/4/2/5/webimg/1049883306_o.jpg[/IMG] [B][SIZE="3"]______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________[/SIZE][/B] [B][SIZE="5"]PSA Cert #42111628[/SIZE][/B] [B][SIZE="5"]PSA Set Registry: none [/SIZE][/B] [B][SIZE="5"]1950 Bowman Tobin Rote #81 - Population 1 of 4 - none higher [/SIZE][/B] [B][COLOR="Red"][SIZE="5"]Value gain of $1,974.00[/COLOR] [/SIZE][/B] This card was purchased by [B]masked VCP ID c***t (Charlie Barokas)[/B] from [B]Ebay seller teri781[/B] as a [B][COLOR="Red"]PSA 6 [/COLOR][/B]for [B][COLOR="Red"]$35.00[/COLOR][/B] on March 27, 2018. VCP link: [URL="https://vintagecardprices.com/card/football-card-values/1950-Bowman-Tobin-Rote-81/101252/PSA/6"]https://vintagecardprices.com/card/football-card-values/1950-Bowman-Tobin-Rote-81/101252/PSA/6[/URL] Same card was [B]sold by probstein123[/B] as a[B][COLOR="Red"] PSA 9 [/COLOR][/B]for [B][COLOR="Red"]$2,009.00[/COLOR][/B] on November 25, 2018. VCP link: [URL="https://vintagecardprices.com/card/football-card-values/1950-Bowman-Tobin-Rote-81/101252/PSA/9"]https://vintagecardprices.com/card/football-card-values/1950-Bowman-Tobin-Rote-81/101252/PSA/9[/URL] [B]Yellow circles are print, fiber, or chipping identifiers. Red box identifies trimmed top edge. [/B] [IMG]https://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/3/9/0/4/2/5/webimg/1049530418_o.jpg[/IMG][IMG]https://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/3/9/0/4/2/5/webimg/1049530414_o.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/3/9/0/4/2/5/webimg/1049530416_o.jpg[/IMG][IMG]https://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/3/9/0/4/2/5/webimg/1049530420_o.jpg[/IMG] [B][SIZE="3"]______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________[/SIZE][/B] [B][SIZE="5"]PSA Cert #26930264[/SIZE][/B] [B][SIZE="5"]PSA Set Registry: none [/SIZE][/B] [B][SIZE="5"]1952 Bowman Large Gene Ronzani #135 [/SIZE][/B] [B][COLOR="Red"][SIZE="5"]Value gain of $1,754.99[/COLOR] [/SIZE][/B] This card was purchased by [B]masked VCP ID c***t (Charlie Barokas)[/B] from [B]Ebay seller gregmorriscards[/B] as a [B][COLOR="Red"]PSA 7 [/COLOR][/B]for [B][COLOR="Red"]$645.01[/COLOR][/B] on February 13, 2017. VCP link: [URL="https://vintagecardprices.com/card/football-card-values/1952-Bowman-Large-Gene-Ronzani-135/100778/PSA/7"]https://vintagecardprices.com/card/football-card-values/1952-Bowman-Large-Gene-Ronzani-135/100778/PSA/7[/URL] Same card was [B]sold by Heritage Auctions[/B] as a[B][COLOR="Red"] PSA 8 [/COLOR][/B]for [B][COLOR="Red"]$2,400.00[/COLOR][/B] on May 12, 2017. VCP link: [URL="https://vintagecardprices.com/card/football-card-values/1952-Bowman-Large-Gene-Ronzani-135/100778/PSA/8"]https://vintagecardprices.com/card/football-card-values/1952-Bowman-Large-Gene-Ronzani-135/100778/PSA/8[/URL] [B]Yellow circles are print, fiber, or chipping identifiers. Red box identifies trimmed bottom edge. [/B] [IMG]https://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/3/9/0/4/2/5/webimg/1049589902_o.jpg[/IMG][IMG]https://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/3/9/0/4/2/5/webimg/1049589897_o.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/3/9/0/4/2/5/webimg/1049589901_o.jpg[/IMG][IMG]https://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/3/9/0/4/2/5/webimg/1049589906_o.jpg[/IMG] [B][SIZE="3"]______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________[/SIZE][/B] [B][SIZE="5"]PSA Cert #42111631[/SIZE][/B] [B][SIZE="5"]PSA Set Registry: none [/SIZE][/B] [B][SIZE="5"]1950 Bowman Dante Lavelli #78 - Population 1 of 7 - none higher [/SIZE][/B] [B][COLOR="Red"][SIZE="5"]Value gain of $2,909.00[/COLOR] [/SIZE][/B] This card was purchased by [B]masked VCP ID c***l (Charlie Barokas)[/B] from [B]Ebay seller teri781[/B] as a [B][COLOR="Red"]PSA 8 [/COLOR][/B]for [B][COLOR="Red"]$380.84[/COLOR][/B] on April 25, 2018. VCP link: [URL="https://vintagecardprices.com/card/football-card-values/1950-Bowman-Dante-Lavelli-78/154966/PSA/8"]https://vintagecardprices.com/card/football-card-values/1950-Bowman-Dante-Lavelli-78/154966/PSA/8[/URL] Same card was [B]sold by probstein123[/B] as a[B][COLOR="Red"] PSA 9 [/COLOR][/B]for [B][COLOR="Red"]$3,289.84[/COLOR][/B] on November 25, 2018. VCP link: [URL="https://vintagecardprices.com/card/football-card-values/1950-Bowman-Dante-Lavelli-78/154966/PSA/9"]https://vintagecardprices.com/card/football-card-values/1950-Bowman-Dante-Lavelli-78/154966/PSA/9[/URL] [B]Yellow circles are print, fiber, or chipping identifiers. Red box identifies trimmed left edge. [/B] [IMG]https://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/3/9/0/4/2/5/webimg/1049529492_o.jpg[/IMG][IMG]https://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/3/9/0/4/2/5/webimg/1049529486_o.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/3/9/0/4/2/5/webimg/1049529489_o.jpg[/IMG][IMG]https://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/3/9/0/4/2/5/webimg/1049529494_o.jpg[/IMG] [B][SIZE="3"]______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________[/SIZE][/B] |
I never like to anonymously comment on another male’s appearance but if any guy is gonna have that “yep, this guy definitely trims sports cards” look to him, it’s this guy
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PSA just being PSA.....nothing to see here
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[QUOTE=Wiseguy917;15480132]PSA just being PSA.....nothing to see here[/QUOTE]
I mean the cards do look trimmed. However, all this makes me want to buy some PSA 7 & 8's, crack them and resubmit, and hope I get a friendly grader. Worst case I'm out grading fees. |
[QUOTE=JoeAdam;15480137]I mean the cards do look trimmed. However, all this makes me want to buy some PSA 7 & 8's, crack them and resubmit, and hope I get a friendly grader. Worst case I'm out grading fees.[/QUOTE]LOL. Just be careful. If you buy from the wrong sources, you'll end up with a lower grade or the card will come back altered.
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[QUOTE=LCM1223;15480122]I never like to anonymously comment on another male’s appearance but if any guy is gonna have that “yep, this guy definitely trims sports cards” look to him, it’s this guy[/QUOTE]
I don’t like to generalize but you’re absolutely correct. The underlying common traits seem to be: Fresh haircut with copious amounts of “product” Bizarre facial hair- freshly trimmed(you meant that?) Big wide smile A lot of these guys remind me of mid level luxury car salesman. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
Heh.
Arthur |
I'm sure there is a logical explanation for this minor anomaly. Joe Orlando and his stellar team of graders will be logging on posthaste to address this statistically insignificant oversight.
Never get cheated. |
Great work again.
I don’t get why probstein and PWCC don’t fight against trimmed cards, it’s hurting their reputation |
3 Attachment(s)
Some other interesting posts from Charlie Barokas on Net54 from 2006. It seems as if he's discussing some of his very own card-doctoring methods: instruments used for altering cards, locating oversized cards to be altered, quick turnaround times, etc.
[IMG]https://www.blowoutforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=474697&stc=1&d=1579968436[/IMG] [IMG]https://www.blowoutforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=474698&stc=1&d=1579968512[/IMG] [IMG]https://www.blowoutforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=474699&stc=1&d=1579968573[/IMG] |
[QUOTE=pip;15480242]Some other interesting posts from Charlie Barokas on Net54 from 2006. It seems as if he's discussing some of his very own card-doctoring methods: instruments used for altering cards, locating oversized cards to be altered, quick turnaround times, etc.
[IMG]https://www.blowoutforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=474697&stc=1&d=1579968436[/IMG] [IMG]https://www.blowoutforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=474698&stc=1&d=1579968512[/IMG] [IMG]https://www.blowoutforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=474699&stc=1&d=1579968573[/IMG][/QUOTE] He sure sounds like he knew |
Dental instruments for faking rough cuts, who knew?
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Man, this is why I've stuck with my gut and only bought Patty and Fat-Z cards. All the Micks and Hanks have been molested.
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[QUOTE=Soxfanguy;15480222]Great work again.
I don’t get why probstein and PWCC don’t fight against trimmed cards, [B]it’s hurting their reputation[/B][/QUOTE] Doesn't mean a damn thing to them As long as cards are coming in consignment, they get their money and that is that. Money is their #1 priority |
Our weekly addition to the Trimming Hall of Shame. Funny but not funny how these guys do a full portfolio of the outed trimmer with several pictures of the suspect. Even different angles of suspect for good measure. Like a full FBI profile. These guys must be losing their minds when they’re added to Blowout Forum like this - knowing it stays here literally until the end of time. Wonder if this is even legal or not...
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3 Attachment(s)
Some more posts on Net54 concerning Charlie Barokas. Apparently, back in October of 2006, he had a number of cards in his auction that showed signs of alteration including stain, ink, and crease removal. One of the cards was an E92 Cy Young. Charlie admitting doing various things to the cards and claimed he was not really "altering" them, but denied he trimmed any of them. The last post refers to alterations Charlie Barokas performed on a card of Christy Mathewson.
[IMG]https://www.blowoutforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=474706&stc=1&d=1579973832[/IMG] [IMG]https://www.blowoutforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=474707&stc=1&d=1579973920[/IMG] [IMG]https://www.blowoutforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=474708&stc=1&d=1579974008[/IMG] |
Why do card people always look like that?
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[QUOTE=superdan49;15480316]Dental instruments for faking rough cuts, who knew?[/QUOTE]No kidding...and just how did Charlie even know about this? Idle conversation with a card doctor? Is that how Gary Moser and Rich Katz did it? With rotating drill bits? Or was it a modified suction device?
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Imagine how many modern base rookie PSA 10s are trimmed.
Virtually impossible to photomatch, and I'd imagine that a good chunk of modern raw cards are one edge trim away from guaranteeing a 10. |
[QUOTE=vwnut13;15480566]Imagine how many modern base rookie PSA 10s are trimmed.
Virtually impossible to photomatch, and I'd imagine that a good chunk of modern raw cards are one edge trim away from guaranteeing a 10.[/QUOTE] all of them |
Gotta pay for that Mercer Island mortgage I guess...For anyone not familiar with the area, it's the wealthiest city in Washington.
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That's the great thing about criminals -- you can always count on them talking about how easy it is to do the crime (not that they themselves would ever do it though).
It's that human condition inside people that is a fundamental need to want to be recognized for "beating the system" and not getting caught. They were smart enough and knew enough that they were able to do these nefarious things and their skills were so good that the experts couldn't catch them. They NEED to tell people about it. They NEED to have recognition. We can always count on them explaining just how "those other people" were able to get away with it. Their posts invariably just become about themselves ("Oh that happened? Well I used to do so and so and it was long before they ever did it." These guys NEED stature even if it's in something like an internet message board about baseball cards. They'll dig their own grave trying to get it. It's the same psychological make-up of a serial killer wanting to be caught. They were so good at something, they want the recognition. Arthur |
[QUOTE=HarryLime;15480832]That's the great thing about criminals -- you can always count on them talking about how easy it is to do the crime (not that they themselves would ever do it though).
It's that human condition inside people that is a fundamental need to want to be recognized for "beating the system" and not getting caught. They were smart enough and knew enough that they were able to do these nefarious things and their skills were so good that the experts couldn't catch them. They NEED to tell people about it. They NEED to have recognition. We can always count on them explaining just how "those other people" were able to get away with it. Their posts invariably just become about themselves ("Oh that happened? Well I used to do so and so and it was long before they ever did it." These guys NEED stature even if it's in something like an internet message board about baseball cards. They'll dig their own grave trying to get it. It's the same psychological make-up of a serial killer wanting to be caught. They were so good at something, they want the recognition. Arthur[/QUOTE] [IMG]https://www.thewrap.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/oj-if-i-did-it-book.jpg[/IMG] |
[B][SIZE="5"]PSA Cert #41962843[/SIZE][/B]
[B][SIZE="5"]PSA Set Registry: none [/SIZE][/B] [B][SIZE="5"]1950 Bowman Knox Ramsey #144 [/SIZE][/B] [B][COLOR="Red"][SIZE="5"]Value gain of $662.50[/COLOR] [/SIZE][/B] This card was purchased by [B]masked VCP ID c***l (Charlie Barokas)[/B] from [B]Ebay seller probstein123[/B] as a [B][COLOR="Red"]SGC 7.5 [/COLOR][/B]for [B][COLOR="Red"]$247.50[/COLOR][/B] on May 03, 2018. VCP link: [URL="https://vintagecardprices.com/card/football-card-values/1950-Bowman-Knox-Ramsey-144/101203/SGC/86"]https://vintagecardprices.com/card/football-card-values/1950-Bowman-Knox-Ramsey-144/101203/SGC/86[/URL] Same card was [B]sold by probstein123[/B] as a[B][COLOR="Red"] PSA 8 [/COLOR][/B]for [B][COLOR="Red"]$910.00[/COLOR][/B] on August 13, 2018. VCP link: [URL="https://vintagecardprices.com/card/football-card-values/1950-Bowman-Knox-Ramsey-144/101203/PSA/8"]https://vintagecardprices.com/card/football-card-values/1950-Bowman-Knox-Ramsey-144/101203/PSA/8[/URL] [B]Yellow circles are print, fiber, or chipping identifiers. Red box identifies trimmed bottom edge. [/B] [IMG]https://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/3/9/0/4/2/5/webimg/1049831629_o.jpg[/IMG][IMG]https://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/3/9/0/4/2/5/webimg/1049831649_o.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/3/9/0/4/2/5/webimg/1049831636_o.jpg[/IMG][IMG]https://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/3/9/0/4/2/5/webimg/1049831641_o.jpg[/IMG] |
That's some fake rough cut on the Ramsey. I can only imagine the number of cards that Charlie Barokas altered if he was caught doing this way back in 2006. Great work, as usual by BODA--officially outing someone who was long suspected of altering sports cards and selling them without disclosure.
Doesn't Barokas have a regular ad in the SMR? If so, will PSA continue to accept his money and promote his business? I sometimes wonder if the SMR doubles, in part, as a "Who's Who" index of card doctors. |
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