GOAT: Ranked by 103 NBA Players
 

Good news for the BO MJ Stans because MJ is still the GOAT. To the BO KANG haters- what do you think of this poll/ranking by the 103 NBA players which puts KANG at #2 spot?

"58.3% of the 103 players voted for Jordan as the Greatest of All-Time (GOAT). While LeBron James was right behind him with 33%

LeBron is closing in...

“The King,” though, is slowly bridging the gap. Four years ago, The Athletic conducted this same poll, and Jordan won in overwhelming fashion, receiving a whopping 73% of the votes, while LeBron had to settle for just 11.9%. Since that time, LeBron has racked up one milestone after another, including the all-time scoring record, which he broke this season.

[url]https://www.si.com/nba/bulls/news/michael-jordan-voted-as-the-goat-in-an-anonymous-player-poll[/url]

[url]https://theathletic.com/4421645/2023/04/18/nba-players-poll/?source=user_shared_article[/url]

***Should we give more weightage to these rankings by the analysts and players or to the BO experts whose rankings are based on their eye test, investment bias, hatred, insecurity, etc:D

[url]https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/33297498/the-nba-75th-anniversary-team-ranked-where-76-basketball-legends-check-our-list[/url]

[url]https://theathletic.com/3137873/2022/02/23/the-nba-75-the-top-75-nba-players-of-all-time-from-mj-and-lebron-to-lenny-wilkens/[/url]

[url]https://thesportsrush.com/nba-news-stephen-a-smiths-top-5-nba-players-features-3-los-angeles-lakers-alongside-michael-jordan-and-bill-russell/[/url]

***Fans Vote-

[url]https://www.ranker.com/crowdranked-list/the-top-nba-players-of-all-time[/url]

[url]https://prosportsoutlook.com/5-greatest-nba-players-of-all-time-fan-rankings/[/url]

Disclosure: I have MJ as the GOAT

[B]***2024 UPDATE[/B]: Apr 23rd, 2024: Jordan earned 45.9 percent of the votes, with James second at 42.1 percent (a gap of just 3.8 percent)

While Michael Jordan won the “Greatest of All Time” category for the third consecutive time, his once-massive lead over LeBron James has shrunk significantly with every passing poll. This time around, Lebron James almost took the mantle. The data speaks loud and clear…

[url]https://theathletic.com/5432961/2024/04/23/lebron-james-goat-michael-jordan-nba-player-poll/[/url]

[url]https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/player-poll-shows-lebron-james-is-gaining-ground-on-michael-jordan-in-goat-debate-but-bulls-star-still-ahead/[/url]

[url]https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10117950-michael-jordan-narrowly-tops-lebron-james-as-nba-goat-kobe-bryant-3rd-in-player-poll[/url]

I think it's a bit premature to even make all-time lists right now considering we will see someone win a championship in a month. 3/4ths of the Western Conference have implied historical / GOAT significance. KD, Bron, Curry. So unless the Nuggets advance, there will be all-time stake at play.

Not that we can't discuss GOAT lists, I find it fun usually. But I'm saying...it could change dramatically soon, which I guess was the point of the Curry thread. Personally for me, I'm far more open to having LeBron at #1. Maybe I cheat, but I usually say Jordan 1A, LeBron 1B. I'd also put Curry top 10 right now, and if he won another ring as the clear best player on his team this year, I'd have to move him up a few spots at least.

Bron winning another ring is an odd situation. I think it will bring more people closer to 1A/1B or heated debates for #1, but even if he wins this year he almost cannot supplant Jordan anyway. 5 rings to 6 rings. 5-6 record v.s. a 6-0. Psychologically most people love that 6-0 and consider it way better. Logically, is it? In a way, yes. In another way, absolutely not.

We had this problem with Montana's 4-0 SB record while Brady was an early GOAT candidate and even after he won his 4th and 5th ring, as he was 4-2 then 5-2. Until he smashed the rings record at 6-2, then 7-2 with another team even (another Bron point with three teams btw, matters imo). But this leads me into Mahomes. Now what does Mahomes have to do? Mahomes is the LeBron of the NFL right now, on that track. He's 28 in fall, let's say he reaches 3 more SBs in the next 5-6 years. Goes 2-1. Now he's 4-2. Very Bron esque spot, extremely difficult spot. What makes it harder for Mahomes as well, to go on a tangent still, is that he [B]directly lost[/B] to Brady in the 2018 AFCCG and the 2020 SB while Brady played for two different teams. Mahomes was young but, that's just always going to be a huge tiebreaker even if Mahomes gets 6 or 7 somehow.

Full circle, just like if LeBron got this 5th ring and has 11 finals appearances - some willing awful teams like CLE early as a young player on his back - where as Jordan got 1st rounded and didn't even advance to the finals without Pippen once. Yet Bron will be penalized for this. And Curry will forever be penalized for he two KD rings. Which also...Bron played GS a million times in the finals which is [I]way harder[/I] competition than anything Jordan ever faced in the finals. To ramble slightly further - no one talks about KD. What if the Suns win the title and KD just absolutely carries that team? Gotta be top 10 all-time and jump in there.

I usually take player votes with a grain of salt. They also have a ton of biases and are sometimes misinformed. I don't think there is a significant discrepancy between players and fans on how they analyze players. You can make some exceptions as some players are really students of the game (Lebron, Kobe, CP3, Rondo, Ginobili, Kidd, etc)


If I remember correctly the same poll was conducted for the best defender in the game and Jrue Holiday received the most votes from the same group of players.


Jrue is really good but there's no way he should get the nod over his own teammate Giannis or other guys like Jaren Jackson Jr, Gobert etc.

Another thing I see is the massive shift. Kobe used to garner a lot of votes from his peers in the NBA but now we see that he's more of a 3rd wheel in these unanimous player votes. Just goes to show you that majority of the voters now are most likely younger players who grew up in Lebron's era.


I think MJ made a fascinating point about this years ago, it's all about who's watching the game now and doing the voting and he's right. He even mentioned the possibility of Lebron being more popular than him 20 years from now.


Not sure how to embed but here it is. 6:00 mark of the clip.

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfJYyN2GGts[/url]


I'm curious to see how these voting would go if they conduct a poll asking retired players instead (80's to early 2000's).

I would believe a fan vote just as much as a player vote for all-time greats. The bias is real no matter where the vote is conducted. There's no such thing as an actual list.

[QUOTE=SupermanBrandon;18844794][B]I would believe a fan vote just as much as a player vote for all-time greats[/B]. The bias is real no matter where the vote is conducted. [B]There's no such thing as an actual list.[/B][/QUOTE]

Here is fans vote. FWIW, #1 and #2 are the same in most lists by fans, analysts and players. Kobe is voted higher (#4/#5) by the fans.

[url]https://www.ranker.com/crowdranked-list/the-top-nba-players-of-all-time[/url]

[url]https://prosportsoutlook.com/5-greatest-nba-players-of-all-time-fan-rankings/[/url]

[QUOTE=pmatic;18844757]I usually take player votes with a grain of salt. They also have a ton of biases and are sometimes misinformed. I don't think there is a significant discrepancy between players and fans on how they analyze players. You can make some exceptions as some players are really students of the game (Lebron, Kobe, CP3, Rondo, Ginobili, Kidd, etc)


If I remember correctly the same poll was conducted for the best defender in the game and Jrue Holiday received the most votes from the same group of players.


Jrue is really good but there's no way he should get the nod over his own teammate Giannis or other guys like Jaren Jackson Jr, Gobert etc.[/QUOTE]

I think really good guard and wing defenders will always get more love from their peers because it is a much harder job to be lock down perimeter defender. All the guys you mentioned are nearly 7 feet tall, and are able to rely a lot more on their height to defend.

I think we should just ask Kendrick Perkins what his list is and make it the official only one. He knows a lot. He was a player and he’s on the tv box. Good enough for me.

[QUOTE=6celtics33;18844917]I think we should just ask Kendrick Perkins what his list is and make it the official only one. He knows a lot. He was a player and he’s on the tv box. Good enough for me.[/QUOTE]

Trolling right?

One of these guys wore #23 in High School and his first couple seasons in the NBA - a number made famous by the other guy in the debate.

One of these guys signed with Nike, a shoe made famous by the other guy in the debate.

Shouldn't that tell you who the G.O.A.T. is? You wore stuff because that another person did... you didn't try to start your own thing.

Kobe modeled his game after Jordan but he wore #8 and wore Adidas for years before switching to Nike.

Wilt
MJ
Lebron
Kareem
Magic
Duncan
Russell

seems like my order.

[QUOTE=Ferg1945;18845412]One of these guys wore #23 in High School and his first couple seasons in the NBA - a number made famous by the other guy in the debate.

One of these guys signed with Nike, a shoe made famous by the other guy in the debate.

Shouldn't that tell you who the G.O.A.T. is? You wore stuff because that another person did... you didn't try to start your own thing.

Kobe modeled his game after Jordan but he wore #8 and wore Adidas for years before switching to Nike.[/QUOTE]

No? I'm sure Albert Einstein looked up to Isaac Newton or at least by nature had to follow in his footsteps. Does this make Einstein not one of the best physicists, the GOAT, or an "all-time great mind" in his own right?

Jordan only made money playing basketball because of xyz guys before him. So he can't be GOAT either according to that logic.

[QUOTE=NSGJT;18845418]No? I'm sure Albert Einstein looked up to Isaac Newton or at least by nature had to follow in his footsteps. Does this make Einstein not one of the best physicists, the GOAT, or an "all-time great mind" in his own right?

Jordan only made money playing basketball because of xyz guys before him. So he can't be GOAT either according to that logic.[/QUOTE]

Oh... Albert Einstein copied Newtons work to make it? Kobe admired Jordan more than anyone..he still did his own thing number and shoe wise.

Only? Tell me you weren't alive in the 1980s without telling me you weren't alive in the 1980s LOL Jordan was EVERYWHERE.. McDonalds, Gatorade, Nike... you couldn't watch a commercial break without seeing Jordan. Jordan started that... he didn't copy another player. That's how he made money and that's how he transcended the NBA. Add in the 6-0... and you have yourself a G.O.A.T.

[QUOTE=Ferg1945;18845431]Oh... Albert Einstein copied Newtons work to make it? Kobe admired Jordan more than anyone..he still did his own thing number and shoe wise.[/QUOTE]

Lebron is an all-time great for his work on the court. What the heck do a number and shoe company or movie have to do with anything?:confused:

[QUOTE=mc1;18845435]Lebron is an all-time great for his work on the court. What the heck do a number and shoe company or movie have to do with anything?:confused:[/QUOTE]

Because he wanted to be the other guy in the G.O.A.T. conversation.

Instead of being your own individual... you picked his number and shoes. If you copy someone... that makes the person you copy... the G.O.A.T.

[QUOTE=Ferg1945;18845466]Because he wanted to be the other guy in the G.O.A.T. conversation.

Instead of being your own individual... you picked his number and shoes. If you copy someone... that makes the person you copy... the G.O.A.T.[/QUOTE]

Jordan is the GOAT for his skills and accomplishments on the court. All the other things youre talking about have nothing to do with those “rankings”.

[QUOTE=mc1;18845476]Jordan is the GOAT for his skills and accomplishments on the court. All the other things youre talking about have nothing to do with those “rankings”.[/QUOTE]

Winner…….. 👍

The average NBA player is 26 years old. That means the last time Jordan played for the Bulls and won a championship, the average NBA player had just been born. Considering that, it's quite remarkable that he still got 58% of the vote.

[QUOTE=fabiani12333;18845572]The average NBA player is 26 years old. That means the last time Jordan played for the Bulls and won a championship, the average NBA player had just been born. Considering that, it's quite remarkable that he still got 58% of the vote.[/QUOTE]

Agreed. The fact that he has been the majority goat for this long should tell people the enormity of his game and accomplishments. They are already trying to replace Brady as qb goat and he just left. It won’t be long before they try to push someone over Lebron who hasn’t done as much.

I don’t know what that’s about. But it happens on repeat.

Newton, Einstein, Nike and Adidas....:coffee:

Did Lebron copy MJ's playing style? Jersey number: Pele wore jersey #10. Maradona wore #10, Messi wears #10, Mbappe wears #10. Does that mean Pele is the unanimous GOAT, and Messi and Mbappe can never become the GOAT for their body of work on the field because they wore the same jersey # as Pele?

Nike vs Adidas: It has nothing to do with copying MJ. It is about the money and has nothing to do with the GOAT debate. Kobe signed with Adidas when he was drafted in 1996. It was a lucrative deal for him at that time and age (17y). When the sales were not good, he paid $8 million to Adidas to get out of the deal in 2002 and switched to Nike.

Is it the body of work on the court/field or the Jersey number and Shoe brand endorsement that should be considered in the GOAT discussion?

[QUOTE=pcptrade;18845887]Newton, Einstein, Nike and Adidas....:coffee:

Did Lebron copy MJ's playing style? Jersey number: Pele wore jersey #10. Maradona wore #10, Messi wears #10, Mbappe wears #10. Does that mean Pele is the unanimous GOAT, and Messi and Mbappe can never become the GOAT for their body of work on the field because they wore the same jersey # as Pele?

Nike vs Adidas: It has nothing to do with copying MJ. It is about the money and has nothing to do with the GOAT debate. Kobe signed with Adidas when he was drafted in 1996. It was a lucrative deal for him at that time and age (17y). When the sales were not good, he paid $8 million to Adidas to get out of the deal in 2002 and switched to Nike.

Is it the body of work on the court/field or the Jersey number and Shoe brand endorsement that should be considered in the GOAT discussion?[/QUOTE]

I think what you’re trying to get at is MJ is an icon not just for his skill, but for lifting basketball to higher proportions. Similar to how most people still rank Babe Ruth as the GOAT. He saved baseball at the time. Put it on his back. MJ did that for basketball. He is the NBA brand and gold standard.

I couldn’t really find the words. But hopefully that does a fair job of representing what I mean

[QUOTE=BlueXtreme;18845894]I think what you’re trying to get at is MJ is an icon not just for his skill, but for lifting basketball to higher proportions. Similar to how most people still rank Babe Ruth as the GOAT. He saved baseball at the time. Put it on his back. MJ did that for basketball. He is the NBA brand and gold standard.

I couldn’t really find the words. But hopefully that does a fair job of representing what I mean[/QUOTE]

I get it. I am pretty sure that everyone here acknowledges that. We even have a Michael Jordan vs Michael Jackson thread that was created recently where MJ's (Jordan) popularity and iconic status in the entire universe was discussed. Lebron looked up to Jordan while growing up and wanted to become great like him. That does not translate to copying.

Fergalicious

what's with all this GOAT obsession, all the meticulous rankings and whatnot

[QUOTE=GOATcards;18846216]what's with all this GOAT obsession, all the meticulous rankings and whatnot[/QUOTE]

[IMG]https://i.gifer.com/4dGf.gif[/IMG]