The 2024 eBay Shilling Epidemic
 

This has gotten out of hand.

Seems like a majority of the listings I follow are being shilled. These are cards for lesser known players and/or players out of their respective sports league.

0 feedback bidders running up bids. I haven’t placed a bid on these listings for the record, I was following one that ended a few days ago and checked the bidders and saw a 0 feedback bidder won. Checked my other followed listings and they’re littered with 0 feedback bidders.

I mean, I can’t be the only one who is seeing this and doesn’t want to bid against myself, right?

i always snipe

Bid what you are willing to pay.

The end.

I hate shilling, but it’s been around for a long time and it’s not going away. The best thing to do is bid what you’re willing to pay and don’t get caught up in a “bidding war”. If it’s being shilled, there’s a good chance it’ll pop up for sale again soon. I’ve seen that happen a lot.

What year is this?

[IMG]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240219/db058882da4728d63969bf0893637934.gif[/IMG]

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I tend to stay away from consignment auctions in particular, as the shilling is rampant. While it's true any random seller could have their items shilled, the conflict of interest with consignment listings is just so blatant, and the shilling problems are quite common with them.

There was a long shilling thread a little while back in the basketball section. Such threads tend to create debate, because one camp thinks it doesnt matter, and another is very anti-shilling and think ebay should crack down more. A third camp thinks it's bad, but nothing can/will be done, so it is what is, a necessary feature of auctions. I am in the anti-shilling camp and think eventually as it gets worse and worse, it'll become a problem for ebay- if the integrity of auctions, the main thing the entire site was even built around, is questionable, that's a problem.

Maybe if they can eventually get auto-pay for auctions working and forced across the board, it could help reduce some of shilling....not solve the problem though.

Post links.

Yeah, I won an auction the other day that was bid up at the end by a 0 feedback bidder. Bidding on Shillbay is a risk you take -- they clearly don't want to protect buyers by stopping blatant shill bidding.

[QUOTE=asujbl;19315590]What year is this?[/QUOTE]

1999.

[QUOTE=ThoseBackPages;19315581]i always snipe[/QUOTE]

That doesn't stop hidden-reserve shill bidding, which seems very common on Shillbay.

[QUOTE=DynaEtch;19315593]I tend to stay away from consignment auctions in particular, as the shilling is rampant. While it's true any random seller could have their items shilled, the conflict of interest with consignment listings is just so blatant, and the shilling problems are quite common with them.

There was a long shilling thread a little while back in the basketball section. Such threads tend to create debate, because one camp thinks it doesnt matter, and another is very anti-shilling and think ebay should crack down more. A third camp thinks it's bad, but nothing can/will be done, so it is what is, a necessary feature of auctions. I am in the anti-shilling camp and think eventually as it gets worse and worse, it'll become a problem for ebay- if the integrity of auctions, the main thing the entire site was even built around, is questionable, that's a problem.

Maybe if they can eventually get auto-pay for auctions working and forced across the board, it could help reduce some of shilling....not solve the problem though.[/QUOTE]

They need to require ID verification for bidders. That should stop, or at least deter, the 0 feedback shill bidders.

Ebay is a selling platform, and as such, it is their duty to actively police their platform and make it a safe place for bidders. That is the value they bring to the table -- they are facilitating sales. That is what justifies their fees.

I feel the same way about people posting on here.

[QUOTE=fabiani12333;19315675]That doesn't stop hidden-reserve shill bidding, which seems very common on Shillbay.[/QUOTE]

yes, thats true. But as a collector, i snipe what i am comfortable paying.

would it be fantastic to stuff for less? of course it would. but winning is what its all about

1. Bid what you are willing to pay and it won't matter.
2. Just sell BIN instead of auctions....

Where have you been the last 25 years dawg?

[QUOTE=StlBen;19315724]1. [B]Bid what you are willing to pay and it won't matter[/B].
2. Just sell BIN instead of auctions....[/QUOTE]

It certainly does matter. Why should someone want to overpay?

As stated numerous, numerous times over the years, one of shilling’s primary purposes is to obfuscate the true value of cards.

[QUOTE=MoreToppsPlease;19315754]It certainly does matter. Why should someone want to overpay?

As stated numerous, numerous times over the years, one of shilling’s primary purposes is to obfuscate the true value of cards.[/QUOTE]

Bid what you are willing to pay isn't overpaying. Sorry you didn't get a discount. Another purpose of shilling is someone not selling a card for below comps, which is common in auctions.

[QUOTE=DynaEtch;19315593][B]I tend to stay away from consignment auctions in particular, as the shilling is rampant.[/B] While it's true any random seller could have their items shilled, the conflict of interest with consignment listings is just so blatant, and the shilling problems are quite common with them.

There was a long shilling thread a little while back in the basketball section. Such threads tend to create debate, because one camp thinks it doesnt matter, and another is very anti-shilling and think ebay should crack down more. A third camp thinks it's bad, but nothing can/will be done, so it is what is, a necessary feature of auctions. I am in the anti-shilling camp and think eventually as it gets worse and worse, it'll become a problem for ebay- if the integrity of auctions, the main thing the entire site was even built around, is questionable, that's a problem.

Maybe if they can eventually get auto-pay for auctions working and forced across the board, it could help reduce some of shilling....not solve the problem though.[/QUOTE]

I follow and bid with 1 specific consignor that isn't as large as some of the consignors that are known for this. They offer combined shipping, and I feel like I consistently get good deals on the cards I bid on.

Granted, I go after less common items that don't necessarily have "comps" for resale purposes, but I consistently wind up being able to resell in my store for more.

[QUOTE=atk825;19315794]Bid what you are willing to pay isn't overpaying. Sorry you didn't get a discount. Another purpose of shilling is someone not selling a card for below comps, which is common in auctions.[/QUOTE]

But shill bidding does create artificially higher prices for buyers, making them pay more than they otherwise would have. It's also deceptive and fraudulent -- auctions are supposed to be fair bidding; not a way to trick good-faith bidders into paying higher prices.

Having a hidden reserve price through shill bidding is against eBay rules.

[QUOTE=atk825;19315794]Bid what you are willing to pay isn't overpaying. Sorry you didn't get a discount. Another purpose of shilling is someone not selling a card for below comps, which is common in auctions.[/QUOTE]
:doh:

[QUOTE=fabiani12333;19315670]Yeah, I won an auction the other day that was bid up at the end by a 0 feedback bidder. Bidding on Shillbay is a risk you take -- they clearly don't want to protect buyers by stopping blatant shill bidding.[/QUOTE]

I've had a handful of auctions that I bid on and....."won".....because of (0) feedback shillers in the last few minutes or so. After...."winning"....these listing(s), I've emphatically told the sellers; [I]CANCEL MY ORDER[/I]; I refuse to pay! I subsequently go on to add their name to my spreadsheet titled (literally) [B]S*ITTY SHILLERS[/B] (the asterisk being replaced, of course! :)!)

To rebuke the position of; [I]only bid what you're willing to pay[/I], that philosophy goes out-the-window...when the seller is effectively putting their hand into your wallet, and [I]STEALING[/I] the additional $20 or so (or whatever the amount is, that you were/are willing to bid up to) from you.

[QUOTE=atk825;19315794]Bid what you are willing to pay isn't overpaying. Sorry you didn't get a discount. Another purpose of shilling is someone not selling a card for below comps, which is common in auctions.[/QUOTE]

Then if afraid of it selling for below comps, dont sell via auction- sell via Buy It Now. It *is* overpaying compared to what you'd be paying in a fair, non-shilled auction scenario. I agree with fabiani above, shilling is fraudulent and deceptive to the buyer.

Used this in the other thread, but picture example of a fair, non-shilled auction where you make a bid of $1000, win the auction for $650 (since next highest bidder was just below that). All good. But then seller after the sale reaches out and says 'wellll you won it for $650...but it shows your max bid was really $1000, thus pay me $1000 if you want me to ship this out'. Anyone and everyone would consider that nuts, and Im sure say heck no. That is basically equivalent to the seller just having shilled the listing (the difference is in whether it was before or after the auction ends...who cares which). Either way just as fraudulent and bad look for seller, as well as against ebay policy.

[QUOTE=KhalDrogo;19315729]Where have you been the last 25 years dawg?[/QUOTE]

I know eh...ebay 101. At least back then you could actually see the user names.

[QUOTE=njsportscardguy;19315855]I've had a handful of auctions that I bid on and....."won".....because of (0) feedback shillers in the last few minutes or so. After...."winning"....these listing(s), I've emphatically told the sellers; [I]CANCEL MY ORDER[/I]; I refuse to pay! I subsequently go on to add their name to my spreadsheet titled (literally) [B]S*ITTY SHILLERS[/B] (the asterisk being replaced, of course! :)!)

To rebuke the position of; [I]only bid what you're willing to pay[/I], that philosophy goes out-the-window...when the seller is effectively putting their hand into your wallet, and [I]STEALING[/I] the additional $20 or so (or whatever the amount is, that you were/are willing to bid up to) from you.[/QUOTE]

Naturally, I think the attitude of sellers who shill bid their auctions is they only will sell a card if they can get every last dollar for it -- they don't want to leave any money on the table. They also don't want to sell below comps or below the price they paid. And they certainly don't want to give any discounts to buyers who can turn around and flip the same card for a profit. So this is why shill bidding is treated as fair game, even though it's blatant fraud.