*UPDATED* Advice on a counterfeit card
 

I bought a card last November on eBay, and when I went into the PSA Registry to add it to my set, it came back as a duplicate. This has happened to me several times before where the prior owner just needs to remove it from theirs so that I could add it, but this time ended up being different, because the other party declined to remove it.

We both sent pics of the card to PSA, and they asked me to send it in to them for review. I did so, and they've had the card at PSA since early December with no movement until this past week. I did contact them a month or so ago and they said that they were still working on it, but this week the tracker went all the way to "Completed" where it has been sitting for days now.

My impression was that it would be reslabbed, but I noticed that it still had the same cert number and I decided to look it up. When I did, PSA gave an alert about the cert being deactivated due to a known counterfeit in the market, and asking for the owner to contact them.

At this point I'm confused. If mine is the counterfeit, then why would I need to contact them when they have my info already? Does that mean that the other person's is the counterfeit? If it matters, my card was in an older PSA slab. I'm not sure whether that means anything with regard to whether it's more or less likely to be the counterfeit.

Also, given that the purchase on eBay was back in late November, am I correct in thinking that eBay won't help if I have to return it?

Did it meet the $250 threshold to go to the graded card authenticator (PSA)? If PSA passed it then, I would figure you have reason to go after them for allowing the purchase to clear.

[QUOTE=mjohnatgt;19458868]Did it meet the $250 threshold to go to the graded card authenticator (PSA)? If PSA passed it then, I would figure you have reason to go after them for allowing the purchase to clear.[/QUOTE]

Auction was for $240 prior to taxes and shipping and $265 after, and it didn't go to authentication, unfortunately.

I wouldn't expect eBay to authorize a return for a sale that long ago. Maybe direct message the seller? But definitely wait until PSA lets you know what's going on?

what number does the cert begin with, and when you say older slab style, does it not have any holo or lighthouse at all? What is the card? Wouldn't think that for "only" $240 that a fake slab would be a thing....

[QUOTE=mjohnatgt;19458917]I wouldn't expect eBay to authorize a return for a sale that long ago. Maybe direct message the seller? But definitely wait until PSA lets you know what's going on?[/QUOTE]

At this point I think that I have to wait and see what the result is. There's still a chance that mine is the real one. The way that it's worded seems to indicate that the counterfeit is still out there:


IMPORTANT NOTICE

Certification number 233**** has been temporarily DEACTIVATED as a precaution due to its use on a known counterfeit in the market. Please submit a request at Customer Request Center (CRC) or contact Customer Care at [url]www.psacard.com/support[/url] if you own the item.

For PSA/DNA items, please submit images of the item, its signature(s), the certification sticker & the Certificate or Letter of Authenticity to Customer Care at [url]www.psacard.com/support[/url].

f[QUOTE=RufussCkingston;19458942]what number does the cert begin with, and when you say older slab style, does it not have any holo or lighthouse at all? What is the card? Wouldn't think that for "only" $240 that a fake slab would be a thing....[/QUOTE]

The cert starts with 223. This isn't the card, but this is the style of the slab:

[url]https://allvintagecards.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/dr-j-rookie.png[/url]

[url]https://allvintagecards.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/wilkins-86-fleer-1.jpg[/url]

So you haven't actually received the card back or heard from psa, just trying to figure out if the card/holder is counterfeit?

As mjohnatgt mentioned, you'll need wait until you hear from psa to be sure. Even if your item is good, the deactivation could be related to the other copy(s) still in circulation. A new cert would certainly help, if that's the problem.

If your item was counterfeit, you might receive something like this back from psa. Even with the case labeled as bad and a hole drilled through the label, this method still presents issues.

Good luck.

[url]ebay.com/itm/395301951456[/url]

[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GKvkvK9XEAAYYEV?format=jpg&name=small[/IMG]

[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GN4AZ8GWMAEP4qv?format=jpg&name=medium[/IMG]

[QUOTE=auburn35;19460785]So you haven't actually received the card back or heard from psa, just trying to figure out if the card/holder is counterfeit?

As mjohnatgt mentioned, you'll need wait until you hear from psa to be sure. Even if your item is good, the deactivation could be related to the other copy(s) still in circulation. A new cert would certainly help, if that's the problem.

If your item was counterfeit, you might receive something like this back from psa. Even with the case labeled as bad and a hole drilled through the label, this method still presents issues.

Good luck.

[url]ebay.com/itm/395301951456[/url]

[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GKvkvK9XEAAYYEV?format=jpg&name=small[/IMG]

[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GN4AZ8GWMAEP4qv?format=jpg&name=medium[/IMG][/QUOTE]

I haven't heard anything from them yet. The tracker shows "Completing" and it says that the grades are ready. It shows the card info including the "Mint 9" grade with the old cert number, but there is no photo of the card. When I click on the hyperlinked cert number it brings me to a page that gives the warning that I posted above.

I'm hoping that the fact that they have my card in their possession but have still indicated that a counterfeit is in the market while asking the owner of it to contact them means that mine is the real one.

So I received contact from PSA and they told me that this card was one that was associated with the counterfeit card operation that was recently in the news. For those unfamiliar, they were using real cards in fake slabs that were older-style PSA non-lighthouse slabs.

I've been trying to get in touch with eBay to see if they would be willing to refund me despite the length of time (December 2023) that has passed, but trying to get in touch with a live person there has been incredibly difficult. Alternatively, I was thinking that I could contact my credit card company and see if they could do something.

Any advice?

[QUOTE=Dereth;19475368]So I received contact from PSA and they told me that this card was one that was associated with the counterfeit card operation that was recently in the news. For those unfamiliar, they were using real cards in fake slabs that were older-style PSA non-lighthouse slabs.

I've been trying to get in touch with eBay to see if they would be willing to refund me despite the length of time (December 2023) that has passed, but trying to get in touch with a live person there has been incredibly difficult. Alternatively, I was thinking that I could contact my credit card company and see if they could do something.

Any advice?[/QUOTE]

eBay chat is usually pretty good. Start their chat support and if it doesn’t get resolved ask them to have a supervisor call you - or ask for a number to speak to a live agent. A charge back on your credit card would be a last resort option but would likely resul lt in your eBay id and all associated feedback being “killed/deactivated/banned.”

[QUOTE=ChaseUA;19475588]eBay chat is usually pretty good. Start their chat support and if it doesn’t get resolved ask them to have a supervisor call you - or ask for a number to speak to a live agent. A charge back on your credit card would be a last resort option but would likely resul lt in your eBay id and all associated feedback being “killed/deactivated/banned.”[/QUOTE]

I was (finally) able to navigate through their automated system and reach a live person. I provided screen shots of my correspondence with PSA and they opened a case. I also contacted the seller at eBay's request to inform them of what happened. At this point I'm hopeful that I'll be reimbursed from either the buyer or eBay.

[QUOTE=Dereth;19475368]So I received contact from PSA and they told me that this card was one that was associated with the counterfeit card operation that was recently in the news. For those unfamiliar, they were using real cards in fake slabs that were older-style PSA non-lighthouse slabs.
[/QUOTE]

bummer... Do you have a pic of the slab you sent in, curious if there is a way to tell/how good a job did they do.

Also, what card and grade was it?

[QUOTE=Dereth;19475368]So I received contact from PSA and they told me that this card was one that was associated with the counterfeit card operation that was recently in the news. For those unfamiliar, they were using real cards in fake slabs that were older-style PSA non-lighthouse slabs.

I've been trying to get in touch with eBay to see if they would be willing to refund me despite the length of time (December 2023) that has passed, but trying to get in touch with a live person there has been incredibly difficult. Alternatively, I was thinking that I could contact my credit card company and see if they could do something.

Any advice?[/QUOTE]

Well that certainly explains the deactivation. Best of luck working out a return/refund.
Like the previous post mentioned, when you're ready, I'd be interested in seeing images of your item.

[QUOTE=RufussCkingston;19475810]bummer... Do you have a pic of the slab you sent in, curious if there is a way to tell/how good a job did they do.

Also, what card and grade was it?[/QUOTE]

It was a 1986 Fleer Sticker of Magic Johnson, graded PSA9. Is there a way to post pics on this forum without having to host it on another site?

Looking at it now, I do think that the red around the label looks off.

[QUOTE=Dereth;19478550] Is there a way to post pics on this forum without having to host it on another site?[/QUOTE]

It's a bit convoluted, but if you click Go Advanced, then there is a manage attachments button down below.

You can do that, but it normally shrinks images to be worthless.

Posting pics of the card.

Yeah, too small.... If you use ebay or anything else, you can upload the pic, then right click on it to open image in a new tab, then use that link.... If you are signed up for the PSA collectors site forum, you can create a new post and upload the pic, get the link, and then never hit submit on the post, that's what I do for this site. [url]https://forums.collectors.com/categories/sports-cards-memorabilia-forum[/url]

[QUOTE=RufussCkingston;19478759]Yeah, too small.... If you use ebay or anything else, you can upload the pic, then right click on it to open image in a new tab, then use that link.... If you are signed up for the PSA collectors site forum, you can create a new post and upload the pic, get the link, and then never hit submit on the post, that's what I do for this site. [url]https://forums.collectors.com/categories/sports-cards-memorabilia-forum[/url][/QUOTE]

I had zero idea this was a thing until now. Thank you!

Edit: I was replying to the eBay hack.

Found via eBay Terapeak.
That dirty fingernail was a definite red flag warning!:D

These are the most dangerous cards to buy right now. They can price this card below the authenticity guarantee limit so you think you are getting a steal and it is high enough where it is worth the scammers time. PSA 8's of this card go for $50 to $75, so it is not worth it for these low-life's in the hobby.

If you are buying graded PSA slabs $100 to $250 cards on eBay you need to be extremely careful. This is where the scammers reside right now. The best security for any slab is a high quality image on PSA/SGC/BVG/CGC's website.

[QUOTE=newcokeandtaco;19478883]Found via eBay Terapeak.
That dirty fingernail was a definite red flag warning!:D[/QUOTE]

To be fair, I have been in touch with the seller and he has been responsive and appears to want to help out. He says that he is attempting to replace it.

[QUOTE=Dereth;19479066]To be fair, I have been in touch with the seller and he has been responsive and appears to want to help out. He says that he is attempting to replace it.[/QUOTE]
Sorry, I was making a silly joke. I certainly hope this situation is resolved to your satisfaction.

That said, I am now totally confused by this thread and may have missed certain details. If you are working on a resolution with the seller why are you asking ebay for help and considering a charge back via your CC company?

What has the seller said about the provenance of this item?

:popcorn:

[QUOTE=newcokeandtaco;19479111]Sorry, I was making a silly joke. I certainly hope this situation is resolved to your satisfaction.

That said, I am now totally confused by this thread and may have missed certain details. If you are working on a resolution with the seller why are you asking ebay for help and considering a charge back via your CC company?

What has the seller said about the provenance of this item?

:popcorn:[/QUOTE]

At first I was attempting to assess what my options were, either in going through eBay or in letting my credit card company deal with it. I did the former, and eBay suggested that I contact the seller to try and resolve it. At this point I think that the seller is fully aware of the slab being fake.