PSA Reality Check...?
 

There are a lot of stories out there about PSA being inconsistent, but there are 4 things we have to keep in mind:

1. They grade 1.5 million a month. 1000 mistakes (just pulling a # out of my @$$) a month is a LOT. BUT, when you consider 1000 is less than 0.07%, it doesn't seem that bad (or, at least not out of the norm for any service industry metrics).

2. People have a tendency to report on, post reviews, highlight, etc. negative examples, not positive.

3. Being negative, unfortunately, is addictive. Think of the news, negativity gets attention.

4. Sometime, people are actually wrong when they criticize grades. Most times I've had someone show me a card that was supposedly undergraded, I pointed out a flaw that they missed.

I have certainly seen cards I would consider are over/undergraded. However, I have also seen much worse from other companies. I just had a 1978 checklist graded a 10 by another company. Corners were a little soft, centering was suspect, and the ENTIRE CHECKLIST WAS TICKED OFF ON THE BACK. I sent it back and they re-graded it a 1.

Remember, the bigger you are, the more detractors you will have. PSA is the biggest, so...

[QUOTE=newfiesig;20000237]Any proof on any of those claims? And are you referring to all grading companies?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=newfiesig;20000235](just pulling a # out of my @$$) [/QUOTE]

your words, not mine :D

PSA gets a lot of bad press because they deserve it.....look at it this way.the very first card they graded is known trimmed and they do nothing about it......tells you everything you need to now.

Using the amount of graded cards as an excuse for incompetency is a cop out.if PSA had any integrity they would only grade as many cards as they could do correctly.There are supposed to be professionals.....it is after all what the P n PSA stands for yes.

PSA is broken. There is a part 1 to this video you should check out as well. Please defend this. Vintage in PSA slabs has a pop report that shouldn't be used. An old 8 is the new 6.

[url]https://youtu.be/WAIZf42GkCo?si=7Nak0Oqvm3V1wguX[/url]

[QUOTE=salsdali;20000416]your words, not mine :D[/QUOTE]

Yes, they are my words. And in proper context, they make sense.

[QUOTE=newfiesig;20000235]There are a lot of stories out there about PSA being inconsistent, but there are 4 things we have to keep in mind:

1. They grade 1.5 million a month. 1000 mistakes (just pulling a # out of my @$$) a month is a LOT. BUT, when you consider 1000 is less than 0.07%, it doesn't seem that bad (or, at least not out of the norm for any service industry metrics).

2. People have a tendency to report on, post reviews, highlight, etc. negative examples, not positive.

3. Being negative, unfortunately, is addictive. Think of the news, negativity gets attention.

4. Sometime, people are actually wrong when they criticize grades. Most times I've had someone show me a card that was supposedly undergraded, I pointed out a flaw that they missed.

I have certainly seen cards I would consider are over/undergraded. However, I have also seen much worse from other companies. I just had a 1978 checklist graded a 10 by another company. Corners were a little soft, centering was suspect, and the ENTIRE CHECKLIST WAS TICKED OFF ON THE BACK. I sent it back and they re-graded it a 1.

Remember, the bigger you are, the more detractors you will have. PSA is the biggest, so...[/QUOTE]

Stop. Just stop. There is so much evidence out there that PSA is ridiculously inconsistent with grades. Pulling a "1000 mistakes" number out of your ass isn't helping your argument when there are videos of YouTuber's re-subbing bulk orders of 200 cards with nearly half of the cards coming back in different grades the second time they are sent. That's one person. PSA serves literally tens of thousands of customers a month. Do the math.

[QUOTE=88horsepower;20000559]Stop. Just stop. There is so much evidence out there that PSA is ridiculously inconsistent with grades. Pulling a "1000 mistakes" number out of your ass isn't helping your argument when there are videos of YouTuber's re-subbing bulk orders of 200 cards with nearly half of the cards coming back in different grades the second time they are sent. That's one person. PSA serves literally tens of thousands of customers a month. Do the math.[/QUOTE]

You're right. Grading is subjective. What you failed to mention is the millions and millions of cards that were graded properly, and not the outliers that became fodder for videos with countless shares and views.

Take some videos of people who who were not happy with their service (for good reason) and add countless anecdotal testimonies from those who "feel" (unjustifiably) that they didn't get the service they deserved, and you have what we have here. No one is arguing that any grading company is perfect, however I have subbed 150 card submissions where I feel that ALL grades (a few 8s, 9s, 10s, and the odd 6 that I miss a bend in) were properly graded.

I didnt make a video on those, however...

And respectfully no, on a forum where we discuss the hobby we all love and exchange ideas, I won't "Stop. Just stop".

[QUOTE=newfiesig;20000581]You're right. Grading is subjective. What you failed to mention is the millions and millions of cards that were graded properly, and not the outliers that became fodder for videos with countless shares and views.

Take some videos of people who who were not happy with their service (for good reason) and add countless anecdotal testimonies from those who "feel" (unjustifiably) that they didn't get the service they deserved, and you have what we have here. No one is arguing that any grading company is perfect, however I have subbed 150 card submissions where I feel that ALL grades (a few 8s, 9s, 10s, and the odd 6 that I miss a bend in) were properly graded.

I didnt make a video on those, however...

And respectfully no, on a forum where we discuss the hobby we all love and exchange ideas, I won't "Stop. Just stop".[/QUOTE]

I've had plenty of orders come back where I've been pleased with the results. I have my own order history from the last ten years to go off of without needing to litigate everyone else's orders. In fact, one of my own orders that came back with one of the worst Gem rate percentages I've ever experienced was re-subbed and over half of the order came back with a higher grade. Since the pandemic, the grading has been significantly inconsistent, far more so than what I experienced pre-pandemic. I see cards on eBay quite often that have come back 10s that I wouldn't have even bothered to send in because of how badly dinged or off centered the cards are, while I've had cards that have been poured over by me for a great length of time to ensure the best cards get sent, cards I had a very strong history with getting 10s on pre-pandemic, and now they are often coming back with sub-10 grades.

So, when it comes to taking the good with the bad, I'm very able to do that. But I have come to a point in my card collecting journey where I am fed up with PSA to the point where I no longer feel confident in their ability to assess cards. Mind you, I'm still coming out ahead on my orders, even when they aren't as good as they used to be, but I'm a collector first and only flipped when I had extras of cards that I subbed multiples of. But as someone who spends their hard-earned money on a very expensive product, I expect consistency, better quality of service (don't even get me started on how bad this has been in the last few years), and PSA has decided to charge more per card than they pay their new graders per hour in the name of profits.

I don't blame PSA for wanting to make money. After all, it's a business. But as a consumer who wants a certain amount of quality for the money I pay, I don't need to consume their product any longer. It's sad, but I'm walking away from them after a decade of being a loyal customer who built a lot of sets through the registry. Speaking of the registry, there are a number of sets that I was happily working on for several years, getting a strong return on 10s for many of these sets. 1987 Donruss, 1987 Donruss Rookies, 1989 Donruss Rookies, 1989 Pro Set, and many more. I had to abandon working on those sets due to the higher cost to grade, the horribly inconsistent returns on the grades I was now getting on those cards. PSA has turned their back on many of my friends who, like me, were building sets through the registry, which used to be PSA's core constituency. Many of us can no longer afford to send commons for $20 a pop with a PSA membership, especially when cards that used to be PSA 10s are coming back with PSA 9s or, in some cases PSA 8s and PSA 7, the latter of those two grades I hardly ever used to get in my orders and now find is far more commonplace.

In short, I have my own experiences to draw upon. Everything else is just collateral to my own experiences but does validate my concern. In fact, there's a thread here on Blowout that speaks to what modern-era collectors like myself are struggling with regard to PSA's grading.

[QUOTE=discodanman45;20000433]PSA is broken. There is a part 1 to this video you should check out as well. Please defend this. Vintage in PSA slabs has a pop report that shouldn't be used. An old 8 is the new 6.

[url]https://youtu.be/WAIZf42GkCo?si=7Nak0Oqvm3V1wguX[/url][/QUOTE]

Sorry for thr late reply. Trying yo catch up on videos with a 4 year old is a challenge in itself.

Tracking that PSA tightened their grading standard vs. 15 years ago. I also agree that it sucks for those into set registries, and sellers in general.

That said, they really didnt have much of a choice. If they hadn't, this forum would be full of "PSA is a joke! They hand out 10s like crazy!". And we were actually seeing that for a while.

If PSA didnt change with industry demands, they wouldn't be the big dog they are now. Remember, grading companies are for-profit organizations. What would we have them do? Maintain grading standards that are now considered too low and turn away consumers?

You adapt, or you fail. Now if you excuse me, I'm on my way to Blockbuster.

[QUOTE=newfiesig;20000581]You're right. Grading is subjective. What you failed to mention is the millions and millions of cards that were graded properly, and not the outliers that became fodder for videos with countless shares and views.

Take some videos of people who who were not happy with their service (for good reason) and add countless anecdotal testimonies from those who "feel" (unjustifiably) that they didn't get the service they deserved, and you have what we have here. No one is arguing that any grading company is perfect, however I have subbed 150 card submissions where I feel that ALL grades (a few 8s, 9s, 10s, and the odd 6 that I miss a bend in) were properly graded.

I didnt make a video on those, however...

And respectfully no, on a forum where we discuss the hobby we all love and exchange ideas, I won't "Stop. Just stop".[/QUOTE]

Grading is not subjective,they have clear standards on PSA's site....PSA is not inconsistent they are incompetent there s a difference.On top of that its willful and has been since the very first card they graded.

[QUOTE=newfiesig;20000618]Sorry for thr late reply. Trying yo catch up on videos with a 4 year old is a challenge in itself.

Tracking that PSA tightened their grading standard vs. 15 years ago. I also agree that it sucks for those into set registries, and sellers in general.

That said, they really didnt have much of a choice. If they hadn't, this forum would be full of "PSA is a joke! They hand out 10s like crazy!". And we were actually seeing that for a while.

If PSA didnt change with industry demands, they wouldn't be the big dog they are now. Remember, grading companies are for-profit organizations. What would we have them do? Maintain grading standards that are now considered too low and turn away consumers?

You adapt, or you fail. Now if you excuse me, I'm on my way to Blockbuster.[/QUOTE]

We are not talking about 10's. We are talking about vintage cards they graded for decades and just decided to grade 8's into 6's the [B]past 6 months[/B]. They don't have a choice? BS. They made a choice and now their grading is absolutely useless. Well maybe if Nat Turner or Ryan Hoge submits vintage cards, they will grade them easier. Ryan Hoge did get a few 10's from his team for his 1975 set. :doh:

[QUOTE=newfiesig;20000235]1. They grade 1.5 million a month. 1000 mistakes (just pulling a # out of my @$$) a month is a LOT. BUT, when you consider 1000 is less than 0.07%, it doesn't seem that bad (or, at least not out of the norm for any service industry metrics).[/QUOTE]

With grading costs where they are now compared to 6-7 years ago I should expect closer to 0.00% errors.

I expect McDonalds to screw up my $5 Big Mac 1-2% of the time but I expect my Ruth’s Chris cheeseburger to be 100% accurate every time.

Also…I’ll take the over on that 1000 mistakes a month. My last submission had 3 errors out of 25 cards.

Anyone that supports how PSA is grading cards right now is either trolling us, has invested in PSA slabs, or uses PSA as their income stream. Comparing them to the professionals at Burger King making Whoppers is pretty accurate, except the employees at Burger King take more time and care to produce their product.

[QUOTE=newfiesig;20000235]There are a lot of stories out there about PSA being inconsistent, but there are 4 things we have to keep in mind:

1. They grade 1.5 million a month. 1000 mistakes (just pulling a # out of my @$$) a month is a LOT. BUT, when you consider 1000 is less than 0.07%, it doesn't seem that bad (or, at least not out of the norm for any service industry metrics).

2. People have a tendency to report on, post reviews, highlight, etc. negative examples, not positive.

3. Being negative, unfortunately, is addictive. Think of the news, negativity gets attention.

4. Sometime, people are actually wrong when they criticize grades. Most times I've had someone show me a card that was supposedly undergraded, I pointed out a flaw that they missed.

I have certainly seen cards I would consider are over/undergraded. However, I have also seen much worse from other companies. I just had a 1978 checklist graded a 10 by another company. Corners were a little soft, centering was suspect, and the ENTIRE CHECKLIST WAS TICKED OFF ON THE BACK. I sent it back and they re-graded it a 1.

Remember, the bigger you are, the more detractors you will have. PSA is the biggest, so...[/QUOTE]


Whatever Nat


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

With the way they grade cards I think this needs to be changed.

"They grade 1.5 million a month. 750,000 mistakes (just pulling a # out of my @$$) a month is a LOT. "

If you don't believe this number of mistakes. Just crack and resubmit. 50% of your cards will receive a different number.

[QUOTE=88horsepower;20000587]I've had plenty of orders come back where I've been pleased with the results. I have my own order history from the last ten years to go off of without needing to litigate everyone else's orders. In fact, one of my own orders that came back with one of the worst Gem rate percentages I've ever experienced was re-subbed and over half of the order came back with a higher grade. Since the pandemic, the grading has been significantly inconsistent, far more so than what I experienced pre-pandemic. I see cards on eBay quite often that have come back 10s that I wouldn't have even bothered to send in because of how badly dinged or off centered the cards are, while I've had cards that have been poured over by me for a great length of time to ensure the best cards get sent, cards I had a very strong history with getting 10s on pre-pandemic, and now they are often coming back with sub-10 grades.

So, when it comes to taking the good with the bad, I'm very able to do that. But I have come to a point in my card collecting journey where I am fed up with PSA to the point where I no longer feel confident in their ability to assess cards. Mind you, I'm still coming out ahead on my orders, even when they aren't as good as they used to be, but I'm a collector first and only flipped when I had extras of cards that I subbed multiples of. But as someone who spends their hard-earned money on a very expensive product, I expect consistency, better quality of service (don't even get me started on how bad this has been in the last few years), and PSA has decided to charge more per card than they pay their new graders per hour in the name of profits.

I don't blame PSA for wanting to make money. After all, it's a business. But as a consumer who wants a certain amount of quality for the money I pay, I don't need to consume their product any longer. It's sad, but I'm walking away from them after a decade of being a loyal customer who built a lot of sets through the registry. Speaking of the registry, there are a number of sets that I was happily working on for several years, getting a strong return on 10s for many of these sets. 1987 Donruss, 1987 Donruss Rookies, 1989 Donruss Rookies, 1989 Pro Set, and many more. I had to abandon working on those sets due to the higher cost to grade, the horribly inconsistent returns on the grades I was now getting on those cards. PSA has turned their back on many of my friends who, like me, were building sets through the registry, which used to be PSA's core constituency. Many of us can no longer afford to send commons for $20 a pop with a PSA membership, especially when cards that used to be PSA 10s are coming back with PSA 9s or, in some cases PSA 8s and PSA 7, the latter of those two grades I hardly ever used to get in my orders and now find is far more commonplace.

In short, I have my own experiences to draw upon. Everything else is just collateral to my own experiences but does validate my concern. In fact, there's a thread here on Blowout that speaks to what modern-era collectors like myself are struggling with regard to PSA's grading.[/QUOTE]

I hear you, and I do wish PSA was more consistent. AND it sucks for ser registry collectors that the standard has changed. My previous point was that they have to change or be made.redundant (can't have credibility in a saturated grading market in 2025 if they still use standards from 2010 and earlier).

The thing is, they are a business, and like every business, they will meet supply and demand to the best of their ability, with the supply being fulfilled by the most economical means possible. So if we are to hate on PSA, we should basically hate on every single for-profit company. Trust me, if they company that makes any product can cut production in half while doubling profit, they will.

I'm a collector first as well. I normally send in 2 of a card, keep 1, and sell the other to (hopefully) cover grading costs.

At the end of the day, people are free to vote with their wallets. Juat don't hate the player, hate the game. Every company will cut corners to maximize profit. If they cut too many corners, consumers look elsewhere, so they have to adjust.

I remember a few years ago a NHL player, who was previously exiled from the league, got a second chance with Montreal. After a successful season, he signed for another team who offered the same money as Montreal. Fans were livid. Montreal's GM, however, told the fans to remember that this is a business first. If you want loyalty, get a dog.

Again, I understand the frustration of seeing grading standards change, as well as consistency issues. I just don't blame any company for being a company unless they hold a gun to my head to purchase their product.

If a person starts a thread with what appears to be an honest question, but instead it turns out to be a disingenuous question to defend PSA, and then starts a new thread entirely defending PSA….is that a scam? ;)

[QUOTE=discodanman45;20000646]We are not talking about 10's. We are talking about vintage cards they graded for decades and just decided to grade 8's into 6's the [B]past 6 months[/B]. They don't have a choice? BS. They made a choice and now their grading is absolutely useless. Well maybe if Nat Turner or Ryan Hoge submits vintage cards, they will grade them easier. Ryan Hoge did get a few 10's from his team for his 1975 set. :doh:[/QUOTE]

So you're saying they consciously made a choice to make their company less profitable? If that's the case, I agree it's a bad look.

[QUOTE=PLB9eight;20000702]Whatever Nat


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]

Thanks for contributing to the thread with such a thoughtful response. Reminds me of when I was 7 and defended a girl that was being made fun of. In return, the bully readily deduced that I must be a girl.

👍

[QUOTE=inaka;20000812]If a person starts a thread with what appears to be an honest question, but instead it turns out to be a disingenuous question to defend PSA, and then starts a new thread entirely defending PSA….is that a scam? ;)[/QUOTE]

It was a question to spark a discussion. And is defending a company a scam? No, it is not.

Is attacking companies, and those who use them as fun thing to do? Many appear to think so.

People need to realize that they have the option to not buy a product, watch a show, eat a food, etc. And companies are free to make bad decisions and pay for it during their quarterly reports.

I was always a fan of WWE as a kid (well, WWF then). They made the product too kid friendly in the late 2000s and it turned me off. Then I turned it off.

WWE, as a company, made much more from kids than adults. And they exist to make money. I understood that, and looked elsewhere for my personal entertainment.

Which these threads unintentionally provide.

We unfortunately live in a world not where if someone doesn't fully agree with a negative opinion they must be a troll or a shill.

It is possible that someone can have a different opinion. At one point that was not only accepted, but celebrated.

Too many people live inside their bubble and cannot fathom how someone could possibly have a different opinion than them. We saw that during the last American and Canadian election cycles.

[QUOTE=newfiesig;20000814]Thanks for contributing to the thread with such a thoughtful response. Reminds me of when I was 7 and defended a girl that was being made fun of. In return, the bully readily deduced that I must be a girl.

[emoji106][/QUOTE]


Defending someone who needs help is honorable and commendable so kudos to you on that one. Defending a less than honest company and telling others what they have to think is not quite the same thing. Keep making enough threads though and someone will eventually agree.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[QUOTE=PLB9eight;20000881]Defending someone who needs help is honorable and commendable so kudos to you on that one. Defending a less than honest company and telling others what they have to think is not quite the same thing. Keep making enough threads though and someone will eventually agree.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]

Funny you should mention that. I've had a lot of people agree. Even received a PM on here from a veteran user of the site. He rightfully said that he didnt want to post in the thread because he'd get attacked. Crazy world we live in.

I don't submit to bullies, however (not saying you're one, just in general) who attack others opinions and ridicule those who don't conform to their way of thinking.

Also, and I've said this many times, PSA is a business like million others. They exist for one reason: to make a profit.

They are making a profit.

Just like WWE doesn't have to change their product to appease me, they are clearly doing well in their space.

The funny thing is, most who complain about them still submit to them. The others just like yelling at kids to get off their lawn, when they don't even have a lawn.

I've never PERSONALLY had an issue with PSA. I only buy/grade PSA.

Yes, I think I have gotten generous grades, also I have gotten a 5 on a card that looks perfect to my eyes.

It is subjective, and prone to manipulation.

At this point, PSA is my ride or die. I like the look of the slabs, the consistency of collecting/grading with PSA and the resale value. Don't love the high costs these days, but I get the hobby has exploded and with it, changes.

Look. At the end of the day, PSA's psa is flying at 30,000 feet. This is a grading company. And they don't want to get lost in the weeds or into a beauty contest. Convergence, viral marketing. They're going guerrilla. They're taking it to the streets while keeping an eye on the street, Wall Street. PSA doesn't want to reinvent the wheel here. In other words, it is what it is. Buying cards just became fun.

PSA shill!
PSA shill!
PSA shill!
PSA shill!
PSA shill!
PSA shill!
PSA shill!