HIGBEES dealer-STAR CARDS and SSA authentication
 

What do people know about this seller and the SSA slabs? A lot of his stuff looks really short side to side. Does anyone know the background of SSA grading/authenticating service?
Why would anyone grade the set below(especially the Jordans) to maximize value? The Jordans look pretty "thin". Just saying...
If the seller purchased them this way, why not send to Beckett and make more money???

[url=http://www.ebay.com/itm/1984-85-Star-Basketball-Complete-Set-288-Cards-SSA-8-/231667869509?hash=item35f07b2745]1984 85 Star Basketball Complete Set 288 Cards SSA 8 | eBay[/url]

Good for buying authentic bags, treat the singles as raw

[QUOTE=6celtics33;9763675]Good for buying authentic bags, treat the singles as raw[/QUOTE]

treat them like raw? At least raw.. I think there is a chance that they are not tampered with.
so what is SSA? Who is the authenticator? Don't they all look kinda suspect?

Higbees is the owner or consignor of the Schonco collection, I'm not sure which. The description says ssa is schonco sports authentication and was incepted to offer star company collectors an affordable way to purchase guaranteed authentic bags and graded singles. It makes no mention of a guarantee that they will cross or be graded by bgs successfully at all. They are authentic. That's why I said treat them as raw. If anyone has ever bought an ssa single and tried to cross it to bgs please let us know the results.

[QUOTE=6celtics33;9763922]Higbees is the owner or consignor of the Schonco collection, I'm not sure which. The description says ssa is schonco sports authentication and was incepted to offer star company collectors an affordable way to purchase guaranteed authentic bags and graded singles. It makes no mention of a guarantee that they will cross or be graded by bgs successfully at all. They are authentic. That's why I said treat them as raw. If anyone has ever bought an ssa single and tried to cross it to bgs please let us know the results.[/QUOTE]

Wow.. Now that's very interesting. So someone(higbees)purchased a collection and started grading singles? Did they all come from the collection(stabbed cards) and guaranteed to be untampered with?
So higbees grades his own cards and sells? Wow...

[url]http://m.ebay.com/itm/1983-84-Star-13-Magic-Johnson-SSA-9-Mint-/381376354266?nav=http://m.ebay.com/itm/1983-84-Star-13-Magic-Johnson-SSA-10-Gem-Mint-/381367205841?nav=SEARCH[/url]

[url]http://m.ebay.com/itm/381367205841?_mwBanner=1[/url]

Vs the normal magic centering Attached.

Idk.. Perhaps my star obsession and reasearch(looking at thousands upon thousands of cards) has me seeing things. Something just seems off but it could be me. Thus, wanting some other opinions.

[QUOTE=Forever Young;9763506]What do people know about this seller and the SSA slabs? A lot of his stuff looks really short side to side. Does anyone know the background of SSA grading/authenticating service?
Why would anyone grade the set below(especially the Jordans) to maximize value? The Jordans look pretty "thin". Just saying...
If the seller purchased them this way, why not send to Beckett and make more money???

[url=http://www.ebay.com/itm/1984-85-Star-Basketball-Complete-Set-288-Cards-SSA-8-/231667869509?hash=item35f07b2745]1984 85 Star Basketball Complete Set 288 Cards SSA 8 | eBay[/url][/QUOTE]

I agree with you 100%. I like his earlier Star graded stuff, but some of the later BGS serial numbers ... let's just say there are some red flags.

Example: [url=http://www.ebay.com/itm/1985-86-Star-166-Patrick-Ewing-BGS-9-5-Rookie-QUAD-9-5s-with-10-Centering-/381373808659]1985 86 Star 166 Patrick Ewing BGS 9 5 Rookie Quad 9 5's with 10 Centering | eBay[/url]

Anyone familiar with these Ewing XRCs knows that when you flip the card over, the top and right edge will have blue "bleeding" -- isn't it strange that the right back edge is pristine white? I strongly recommend staying away from some of these. But again -- the earlier BGS serial numbers, particularly earlier Schonco labels are great.

[QUOTE=6celtics33;9763922]Higbees is the owner or consignor of the Schonco collection, I'm not sure which. The description says ssa is schonco sports authentication and was incepted to offer star company collectors an affordable way to purchase guaranteed authentic bags and graded singles. It makes no mention of a guarantee that they will cross or be graded by bgs successfully at all. They are authentic. That's why I said treat them as raw. If anyone has ever bought an ssa single and tried to cross it to bgs please let us know the results.[/QUOTE]

I'm not convinced these SSA cards are from the original Schonco collection.

Maybe someone can help me out with this: Look at what Higbees says on this card for example: [url=http://www.ebay.com/itm/1986-Star-Court-Kings-8-Terry-Cummings-SSA-10-Gem-Mint-/381376359278]1986 Star Court Kings 8 Terry Cummings SSA 10 Gem Mint | eBay[/url]

"(SSA) Schonco Sports Authenticated owner Michael Higbee has over 25 years of grading experience. We bought out Star company back in 1988 and I personally drove to Boca Raton Fl. to pick up the remaining inventory. Our cards are 100% original and held to the highest grading standard."

Does this even make sense in view of this article from Beckett Graded Monthly, which states that Schonsheck (Schonco) purchased Star inventory from Levin in the 1990s?

[IMG]http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk168/celtics86/Beckett-GCI-Star-announceme_zpscahjhujw.gif[/IMG]

[QUOTE=celtics86;9764381]I'm not convinced these SSA cards are from the original Schonco collection.

Maybe someone can help me out with this: Look at what Higbees says on this card for example: [url=http://www.ebay.com/itm/1986-Star-Court-Kings-8-Terry-Cummings-SSA-10-Gem-Mint-/381376359278]1986 Star Court Kings 8 Terry Cummings SSA 10 Gem Mint | eBay[/url]

"(SSA) Schonco Sports Authenticated owner Michael Higbee has over 25 years of grading experience. We bought out Star company back in 1988 and I personally drove to Boca Raton Fl. to pick up the remaining inventory. Our cards are 100% original and held to the highest grading standard."

Does this even make sense in view of this article from Beckett Graded Monthly, which states that Schonsheck (Schonco) purchased Star inventory from Levin in the 1990s?

[IMG]http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk168/celtics86/Beckett-GCI-Star-announceme_zpscahjhujw.gif[/IMG][/QUOTE]

It's hard to overlap time.

What is with those "blank backs" that are beig sold yet no longer graded by beckett??

I believe higbees worked with William shonshek and was a consignor for the collection. He's been selling it since bgs started grading. I believe the bgs slabs have stopped carrying the schonco label. I have no idea for the reasons behind this. As I said before im not sure if he is still consigning or if he bought it out. Don't know.

I have avoided all SSA cards for the same reasons discussed by the posters above. I know of several advanced Star collectors who have had their suspicions for awhile now that there is indeed something rotten - and it is no coincidence. Those so-called SSA graded cards, particularly several of the keys are "shorties".

That SSA Star Jordan XRC #101 from the set in question is obviously trimmed.

[img]http://www.freeuploadsite.com/do.php?img=78066[/img]

Anyone with two decent sets of eyes can size up the cards from their living rooms and eye ball the difference out. The BGS example on the left is the one on eBay being offered by Steve Taft, the foremost authority on Star Co. cards. The SSA card on the right has had surgery on it's right side to improve on the centering.

Personally I would not touch a Star card that has not been graded by BGS. Not only because of the authenticity assurance but there is less of a chance that one buys a trimmed card. And while it's not a bullet proof guarantee (as pointed out by the Ewing XRC example above) but your chances of buying a trimmed card is drastically cut down - no pun intended.

On a related note to trimming (and breaking news most collectors of vintage already know), but one of the most powerful men in the business was sentenced to 20 months in prison last week for garbage like this.

[url]https://www.sportscollectorsdaily.com/mastro-sentenced-to-20-months-in-prison/[/url]

[QUOTE=Hoopsfanatic;9764890]I have avoided all SSA cards for the same reasons discussed by the posters above. I know of several advanced Star collectors who have had their suspicions for awhile now that there is indeed something rotten - and it is no coincidence. Those so-called SSA graded cards, particularly several of the keys are "shorties".

That SSA Star Jordan XRC #101 from the set in question is obviously trimmed.

[img]http://www.freeuploadsite.com/do.php?img=78066[/img]

Anyone with two decent sets of eyes can size up the cards from their living rooms and eye ball the difference out. The BGS example on the left is the one on eBay being offered by Steve Taft, the foremost authority on Star Co. cards. The SSA card on the right has had surgery on it's right side to improve on the centering.

Personally I would not touch a Star card that has not been graded by BGS. Not only because of the authenticity assurance but there is less of a chance that one buys a trimmed card. And while it's not a bullet proof guarantee (as pointed out by the Ewing XRC example above) but your chances of buying a trimmed card is drastically cut down - no pun intended.

On a related note to trimming (and breaking news most collectors of vintage already know), but one of the most powerful men in the business was sentenced to 20 months in prison last week for garbage like this.

[url]https://www.sportscollectorsdaily.com/mastro-sentenced-to-20-months-in-prison/[/url][/QUOTE]

Oh man.. This is horrible and I am surprised it has not been publicized as this is very serious.

The weird thing is.. Even many of his "high end" Beckett grades look thin. I makes one wonder about stabbed progression: *submit to Beckett..fingers crossed..
*kicked back? No prob...SSA.

I mean I hate to say this but how can all the "shorties" be in one place?
Just look at the top grades star cards in his store vs ALL the others on eBay side to side.
Look at Hakeem vs one attached for example.

Idk... Maybe he purchased them this way?? If that's the case, he should know and stop introducing them into the market. The seller claims to have a lot of experience in star though so I do not understand how something so obvious could get through.

[url=http://m.ebay.com/itm/1984-85-Star-237-Hakeem-Olajuwon-BGS-9-/381372709227?nav=SEARCH]1984 85 Star 237 Hakeem Olajuwon BGS 9 | eBay[/url]

Part of the problem for BGS is that these Star cards legitimately come in a larger range of sizes than other traditional issues. So, I don't blame BGS that much for grading a few that look "thin."

I wouldn't touch that Olajuwon either -- look at the BGS 9 being sold by Jerry507 for what I consider a proper amount of cardboard (although I'd rather have a good 8.5, which I still haven't found yet -- seems at a certain point the centering grade is too subjective to justify the uptick in price).

[QUOTE=celtics86;9765712]Part of the problem for BGS is that these Star cards legitimately come in a larger range of sizes than other traditional issues. So, I don't blame BGS that much for grading a few that look "thin."

I wouldn't touch that Olajuwon either -- look at the BGS 9 being sold by Jerry507 for what I consider a proper amount of cardboard (although I'd rather have a good 8.5, which I still haven't found yet -- seems at a certain point the centering grade is too subjective to justify the uptick in price).[/QUOTE]

I agree on all accounts. The thing is, there ARE certain cards that are almost always short on one side. When both sides are short... Forget about it. Bgs is great but... Even MJ missed free throws:)


Jerry's is the one attached.. Higbees is on on link.
There is a large difference.
Jerry is legit.

A side question relating to Star Co. Do you guys think that buying the "Quad 9.5" for these Star Co. XRC will one day be able to be crossed to PSA 10, when PSA is ready to grade them?

I do want to pick these XRC up, they look beautiful my opinion but I generally collect PSA 10, so maybe "Quad 9.5" is the equivalent?

[QUOTE=hazenuts;9769424]A side question relating to Star Co. Do you guys think that buying the "Quad 9.5" for these Star Co. XRC will one day be able to be crossed to PSA 10, when PSA is ready to grade them?

I do want to pick these XRC up, they look beautiful my opinion but I generally collect PSA 10, so maybe "Quad 9.5" is the equivalent?[/QUOTE]

They are two different companies with two different sets of graders and two different sets of criteria. Chances are each feel superior to the other and vice versa. (They probably worship two different sets of gods as well).

When it comes to crossovers, there are ZERO guarantees - regardless if it's a quad 9.5, 10, 11 etc...

Zero, Zip, Zilch, Nil, Nada

Anyone that tells you else wise was either fired from PSA or is trying to sell you the card with those sub-grades ..... or it's the man in the mirror trying to justify a purchase.

Trust your eyes and experience. It's been said a billion times, so here it is again for a billion and one .... "Buy the card, Not the holder" :)!

SSA cards appear to be tampered with at least from the looks of the link below. I always thought those cards looked short. It makes me wonder if the seller is slabbing the ones beckett kicks back in these ssa cases. One would hope that isn't the case though.

[url]http://www.blowoutcards.com/forums/basketball/1041923-expectations-shattered-recent-bgs-submission-mailday-mj-towns-bird-shaq.html[/url]

Don't roll the dice on those SSA graded cards. Read this thread:



[url]http://www.blowoutcards.com/forums/basketball/1041923-expectations-shattered-recent-bgs-submission-mailday-mj-towns-bird-shaq.html[/url]

I also suggest folks take some care in purchasing from this seller generally. Whoever bought the below Ehlo XRC Mint 9 should try to find the rest of the cardboard.

[IMG]http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/zSQAAOSwP~tW6CC7/s-l500.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://thumbs.worthpoint.com/zoom/images1/1/0307/13/craig-ehlo-1984-85-star-extended-rookie-card-xrc_1_818ef7f51515e900f1a6be08ce0914f0.jpg[/IMG]

Wow, that is an obvious trim job. How do the graders not catch that?

Humor me, but didn't Schonco purchase the last remaining uncut sheets? Could they be cutting the cards off of the sheets, hence the funky dimensions and incorrect borders? Just an opinion obviously. I would buy raw star cards before any of these supposed SSA graded. Heck those 1985-86 that he has, that are snow white on the backs, are either Type II's or fake. The color bleed is very evident on that set that I have seen. The timeline doesn't make sense either. Schonco bought in the 90's, yet Higbees claims he bought the remaining in 1988. I smell a fish.
Wherever there is money to be made, there will be someone trying to cash in, unethically, more times than not.
I love the Star cards, and the 86 Fleer, but you have to have your eyes open on these things. If its too good to be true, it probably is.

[QUOTE=Springerj23;11385505]Humor me, but didn't Schonco purchase the last remaining uncut sheets? Could they be cutting the cards off of the sheets, hence the funky dimensions and incorrect borders? Just an opinion obviously. I would buy raw star cards before any of these supposed SSA graded. Heck those 1985-86 that he has, that are snow white on the backs, are either Type II's or fake. The color bleed is very evident on that set that I have seen. The timeline doesn't make sense either. Schonco bought in the 90's, yet Higbees claims he bought the remaining in 1988. I smell a fish.
Wherever there is money to be made, there will be someone trying to cash in, unethically, more times than not.
I love the Star cards, and the 86 Fleer, but you have to have your eyes open on these things. If its too good to be true, it probably is.[/QUOTE]

I'm not sure about the sheets, but I've wondered about those snow white surfaces on the 85-86 Star too. I was thinking trimmed, but type II's or counterfeits are possible I imagine. Either way, he'll get no more of my money.

[QUOTE=celtics86;11385330]I also suggest folks take some care in purchasing from this seller generally. Whoever bought the below Ehlo XRC Mint 9 should try to find the rest of the cardboard.

[IMG]http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/zSQAAOSwP~tW6CC7/s-l500.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://thumbs.worthpoint.com/zoom/images1/1/0307/13/craig-ehlo-1984-85-star-extended-rookie-card-xrc_1_818ef7f51515e900f1a6be08ce0914f0.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]

Glaring trim job! :doh:

What's bad is the Star cards are notoriously sized small/big. The 101 for example I have seen small and large. The large have always been rumored to be sheet cut.
The 9 Ehlo is definitely trimmed, bottom border, and probably the sides as well.
Centering on the 83/84 and 84/85 are usually poor. The 85/86 improved dramatically.
I have always told inquiring minds that if you find nicely centered 83/84 or 84/85, the radar needs to be turned up. Something is probably a foul.

[QUOTE=Springerj23;11386955]What's bad is the Star cards are notoriously sized small/big. The 101 for example I have seen small and large. [SIZE="7"]The large have always been rumored to be sheet cut.[/SIZE]
The 9 Ehlo is definitely trimmed, bottom border, and probably the sides as well.
Centering on the 83/84 and 84/85 are usually poor. The 85/86 improved dramatically.
I have always told inquiring minds that if you find nicely centered 83/84 or 84/85, the radar needs to be turned up. Something is probably a foul.[/QUOTE]

That's interesting, I always liked the larger 84-85 MJ 101s. Will have to look into that. Thanks.

Rumored is key word. Not stating that as fact. Cutting process was pretty suspect back then so who knows. 101 placement on the sheet pretty much guaranteed centering and cutting issues.