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Old 07-14-2017, 10:53 PM   #22
AbraCalabro's Avatar
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 7,537

Thanks for the insights guys. I've decided to move my Hot Shots stuff, that's just not going to happen, I just can't justify paying 1k for a card like that. It's not even a 'rare' card.

I think I will try to acquire the ProMotion MJ as well as the Holoview in a trade or a purchase after I move the Hot Shots, since there are only four MJ cards in that 1997 SPx set, if not, I'm going to axe the build and forget about it. Maybe I'll build 1996 SPx instead since even the MJ cards are low budget, who knows, I'm at a big time crossroads with all this stuff.

Originally Posted by buckunteer View Post
This is definitely an issue for a cash-strapped collector like me and makes a big difference for the sets I go after in the first place. For instance, I'm only doing the 97-98 Chrome Season's Best refractor set because I miraculously pulled the MJ 5 years ago. I love the look of the set, but I'm not gonna put it together if I have to spend $60-$70 on one card and about that (or less) for the other 29 combined- just not worth it to me.

I also want one LARGE, base refractor set and I chose to do 99-00 SC Chrome over 97-98 Bowman's Best because there are TWO MJs (one of which I actually do have, again miraculously pulled), a second-year Kobe, Duncan and T-Mac RCs, etc., in 97-98 BB.

I'm with you on 97 SPx but those inserts are too rich for my blood as well, I'm just doing the base set and stopping because I legitimately think it's the best base set ever produced and it brings back good memories from when I collected as a kid.

As far as my MJ collection, I only have about a dozen cards that would sell for $100+ (had a few more, but sold them to take my wife on a vacation for our 5-year anniversary). I actually put together a "top 10 gettable MJ" list, cards that I really like but don't sell for HUGE dollars, and I try to prioritize those. Unfortunately I have to keep altering the list because some cards on it skyrocket (98-99 East West all-star refractor w/ Kobe) while others just climb steadily out of my price range (96-97 Total O, 95-96 Natural Born Thrillers). I know my MJ collection will never be great, but he has so many beautiful cards and I still enjoy picking them up when I can. Plus if my finances get even worse (a frightening concept), I know I can sell off the MJs to stave off bankruptcy
I can relate to pulling 'the MJ' in an insert set, I actually pulled the Steel Slammin' Jordan insert myself many years ago when the product was still new. My luck, it's one of those Jordans that never changed in value. Maybe I should start my own shill-gang and we can sell it back to one another for drastically increasing values each time?

Originally Posted by 6celtics33 View Post
I would say for someone that doesn't even particularly like MJ that you should build the sets without him. You enjoy the cards, the era, the design. I think you would be sick paying $1000 for a Jordan hot shots or high for some of those others. Put the rest of it together for your own enjoyment and your wallet will thank you and you'll have no regrets.
I would definitely have a resentment to the set if I were to ever shell out 1k for the MJ, the disparity in pricing has gone from somewhat understandable to totally insane. Right on the money there, no pun intended. The OCD collector in me says I need to complete the set though...otherwise it would be this nagging mosquito buzzing in my ear until I fill the slot. All, or nothing I guess.

Originally Posted by Jasondr91 View Post
Great thread Abra. Spot on too. I ave many many insert sets from the 90s. A good portion of them is missing ONE card.....Jordan. Natural Born Thrillers, 93 Ultra Scoring Kings etc....

I was also working on the SPx set, building the base slowly. IF you still have some of the base, and open to moving some, let me know. I think I have like 25/50 of the cards for the set.
Ah, Natural Born Thrillers...yep that's another one I looked up which sells way more than the others in the set...WAY more. I remember seeing it up to 400 dollars at one point but it's back down to a measly 100+ Scoring Kings is another one I don't get, mass produced, but for some reason you can build multiples of the set for one MJ.

Originally Posted by stalemonkey30 View Post
I have that SPX Holoview Heroes set, but I got the Jordan way before the price spike. I stopped 90s set chasing a long time ago mostly due to MJ prices. I only pick up cards these days that are visually appealing to me.

It sounds like you are primarily focused on doing mastery sets, but I would argue that some of the super expensive parallels you might be chasing are not worth the effort unless you are dead set on doing a mastery. That 95/96 upper deck set (Jerry Stackhouse RC ) for instance has amazing photography and is definitely one of my favorites, but I find that the parallels for that set are kind of lacking and I personally think that the electric court lightning bolt takes away from the overall look of the card.

I have a mini collection of Jordan PSA 10 Upper Deck base cards. I like them because they are all amazing in-game action shots and are reasonable priced because they were mass produced.
It sounds like I'm headed in that same direction and I'll ultimately probably end up in the same boat. The thing is I have "almost" every card of my PC player from the 90s and if I'm not building sets, then I'm not buying anything outside of the rare instance I go after a Panini card. If I did have some of the MJ cards BEFORE the big bang of price spikes I might have been more willing to stick with it...but, that doesn't look to be the case now.

Originally Posted by duron View Post
Put it this way, even if I wasn't laid off, I still wouldn't have been continuing to buy MJ. I will 100% concentrate on a new player when I'm able to get back on my feet. My most likely candidate is Penny, but I've also considered Allan Houston, Spree, McDyess, and Vince.

I've always wanted a Star Rubies and one of a couple of favorite Knicks would be amazing to go after.

Vince would be much more of a possibility if he came into the league/card world a year or 2 earlier.

From your set chase perspective, I'd just ignore the majority of his cards tbh. Plenty of other beautiful cards to put together. Might be easy for me to say since I don't have card OCD to that extent.
Good choices on players to collect. For Houston, Sprewell and McDyess, those are all great players that fall into a very nice affordable zone. Penny and Vince would be more pricey, but their prices are still fractional compared to MJ. As mentioned above, I think that if I can't / won't acquire the MJ cards to finish the sets completely, I'm going to end the chase entirely.

Originally Posted by I only pull for View Post
Abra you know the drill. When the a-holes are manipulating certain cards time to buy the cards they haven't screwed with and wait for the prices to come crashing back down. Not so sure how much the hot shots will drop though because it has been steadily going up unlike some of the other cards the manipulators mess with.

Don't forget last year, they also screw with base prices as well. Remember the prices base fleer PSA 10's were selling for?
No doubt about that. The thing that is concerning is sometimes the manipulation works too well and it sticks as we've seen with quite a few cards. I remember the PSA 10s really well too, lol, it amazes me that people were scrambling to dish out top dollar for those, there's a case where the manipulation did NOT stick around and people got burned.

Originally Posted by kukocitb View Post
Great idea.

Yeah I think that is the reason I build 0 sets. Money I don't have and it takes away from money I can spend on PC. You never know when some of those might pop up for a steal.

Another is option is just send all the sets to me and I will use them to fund a Abra award that goes to Abra for being a kick butt member on here. No matter what you collect Abra I enjoy seeing it and reading about it. Do waht makes you happy. If that is sending me stuff..... so be it.
Honestly the bolded text is what makes me the most happy. So, I've decided to send you my monthly bills.

Originally Posted by the27guy View Post
Abra is referring to himself as a "normie". I've always felt he embraced his "abnormie"....

I'll show myself out.

Originally Posted by 8collector34 View Post
The only 3 insert sets I am chasing (just started this year) are on hold for the very same reason as yours, Abra. They are 96 SP Holoviews, 97 SPx Holoview Heroes and SPx Hardcourt Holoview.
The MJs were selling for the same amount like it's a must. Since at least late last year;

1996-97 SP Premium Collection Michael Jordan Oct 31, 2016 United States BIN $24.99
1996-97 SP Premium Collection Michael Jordan Nov 20, 2016 United States 10 bids $26.01
1996-97 SP Premium Collection Michael Jordan Feb 23, 2017 United States 7 bids $26.00
1996-97 SP Premium Collection Michael Jordan Feb 23, 2017 United States 5 bids $26.00
1996-97 SP Premium Collection Michael Jordan Feb 23, 2017 United States 5 bids $26.00
1996-97 SP Premium Collection Michael Jordan Feb 25, 2017 United States 18 bids $26.23
1996-97 SP Premium Collection Michael Jordan Mar 02, 2017 United States BIN $35.00

1997 SPx Holoview Heroes Michael Jordan Nov 09, 2016 United States 20 bids $61.00
1997 SPx Holoview Heroes Michael Jordan Jan 01, 2017 United States 30 bids $81.00
1997 SPx Holoview Heroes Michael Jordan Oct 09, 2016 United States 20 bids $83.00

97-98 SPx Hardcourt Holoview 100<
(dont have any records thou)

I stopped following the prices after I saw SP selling for $80!!! The other Holoviews are selling 2x or 3x as much. The prices increased in what? A week?!!!! …AND IT IS THE SUMMER! I thought this was the time to buy basketball cards.
Now I wish I would have bought these MJs earlier instead of my PC guys. Judging from what you written as well, Abra the demand for Jordans are there, but this price increase is still shocking. At the moment I am frantically buying up my PC guys for prices I would have laughed myself in the face for, 1 year ago. It's already starting to backfire, but since the prices went up from last year for every card I am chasing, I can only see them increasing next year as well… The big question is; once these Jordans are unaffordable, what cards will the masses buy up? Will it trickle down to other 90s stars? Will this year’s rookie class be strong enough to be worth chasing? Or all this just an illusion?
As mentioned by ThoseBackPages, I think they will buy other MJ cards, but then the problem is, what happens when they have all the lower end / low budget MJ cards? I get what you're saying. I feel like there are more MJ cards in the EXPENSIVE-INSANE bracket than there are otherwise, not including all of the commemorative stuff UD put out, which for the most part, you can't pay people to take for free.

I actually started set building to keep myself busy when I couldn't find Player PC cards, so maybe others will do something similar, but they're not really buying more MJ cards in that case. My guess is that MJ, along with Kobe and Lebron, will be big money hobby only in ever increasing intensity as time goes on unless a miracle happens and prices normalize. I could go into this further but that would be a giant wall of text. As for other 90s players, I think prices for them ONLY go up when someone makes it public that he's buying up all the cards of 'Player X' and once those cards are acquired, there is no one else willing to spend a certain amount so they either don't get listed, hardly get listed, or just drop in price again.

Originally Posted by ninjacookies View Post
Great write-up and overview of normalized pricing. I'd personally try and target the 97 holoview set. Just a gorgeous looking design that will never again be mimicked.

I agree with previous posters...just target all the players minus Jordan. Give it some time and watch the price trends closely. You're bound to find a steal one of these days from someone who doesn't necessarily care or know what he/she has.
I was thinking about finding steals, or wishfully thinking about the EC Golds, that's something I might end up watching and if I can get them in the 30+ dollar range then it's not 'that bad', but that's a big what-if as well, I might get bored with the set, I don't know. Maybe I'll dump one set and continue building the other, that's another option. I also agree on the Holoview Heroes set, I wish they had included more players in the debut set the same way they did for 1997's release.

Originally Posted by tjforce View Post
Chasing a 90's insert set and getting every card but the Jordan is like getting your haircut, washing your dad's car, wearing a handsome tux, buying dinner, giving her flowers, dancing to slow jams, and having one heck of a fun time at prom... without getting any action at the end of the night.

Sure, you may have still had a good time, but you didn't get what you really wanted and what everyone wanted to hear the details of after the fact.
I couldn't wait to get home and play World of Warcraft after my prom night, let's just say the Elven Maidens were impressed with my King Arthur.

Originally Posted by Kenfancypants View Post
Go for sets 1995/96 and before........rarely are there sets that have really expensive Jordans in them. How about Skybox Meltdown or Larger than life? 93-94 S.C. Rising Stars, 94-95 Fleer Career award achievements
Flair has some great sets to put together......Center Spotlight, rejectors, Playmakers
There's plenty of awesome sets WITH and without Jordan from the mid 90's that are affordable.
I was thinking of doing the 95/96 EXL, but that MJ Thrill Seekers is in there, which is a bummer. But if the prices go down, then I can probably justify making the attempt as every other card is quite reasonable. I did also try to master set 95/96 Flair, but when I saw the numbers that New Heights and Anticipation MJ were doing, I couldn't justify it. About 50 dollars for the Anticipation card? Ewwww I get 200+ for the Hot Shots, but the other cards are not worth 50/Anticipation and 30ish for the New Heights. Also mentioned was the 93/94 Ultra Set, which is a cool set, but if you want to master set it, you're going to get railed on the MJ Scoring Kings.

Originally Posted by drobfan8 View Post
Yeah any time you're paying $1k for a 90s Jordan insert it's big baller type stuff for your average collector. That's a lot of $$$

I'd keep those UD chases going. Classy stuff.

Or.... Hang on to those Flair Hot Shots and concentrate on saving for that MJ.
The Hot Shots chase is definitely done, but the UD stuff still has a chance. I know I sound like a broken record at this point, but I may also dump the UD chases and move on and just not buy as much, or rather as often, anymore.
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