eBay Authentication fail? Listing doesn’t match slab

[Jeffsayshi]

Hello,

I saw a PSA slab on eBay that I put an offer for that read 2013 Topps Update #US259 Nolan Arenado (RC) 5/50. I could see in the description it all matched his rookie year so I made an offer and the seller accepted in a short time. Once I saw the order confirmation I went to screenshot the first image (how I track my collection) and I noticed that the slab itself says 2014 Topps Chrome Nolan Arenado Gold Refractor. This wasn’t the right year. I immediately messaged the seller and he said “sorry I already shipped it.” They said the listing was added by eBay.

I figured the authentication process would flag this as the title says 2013 but the slab says 2014 not to mention it’s Topps Chrome when it should be Update. But the item was deemed authentic. Now the seller is ghosting me and I’m having trouble returning it. Anyone have suggestions for this? Does anyone think I am in the wrong here? I’d appreciate any input on this as I rarely leave bad feedback on eBay.

Thanks!


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[newcokeandtaco]

You should still have protections under the ebay money back guarantee or if the buyer allows returns. But you only 3 days from receipt to file INAD (item not as described). Chat with ebay is a good place to start. GL

From the FAQs:
Can buyers return items purchased with Authenticity Guarantee?
Buyers can return an item if you accept returns, as stated in the listing, and the return takes place within your return window. If you do not accept returns, the item will be final sale and not eligible for returns unless the buyer files a return request within three calendar days of delivery as stated in the eBay Money Back Guarantee policy. Items shipping internationally to the U.S. are ineligible for returns under the Authenticity Guarantee program.
https://pages.ebay.com/authenticity-...gcards-seller/

[Jeffsayshi]

Thank you! Yeah I attempted to return but they won’t accept and now the seller won’t answer. I started to put item not as described but it is going to the vault instead of to me and it won’t go through when I select the option. I’m going to try on an actual desktop when I get home lol


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[DynaEtch]

It’s a tricky situation, but you are not in the wrong here at all. eBay authenticity made a mistake and should not have passed this, as it doesn’t match the listing title. Sure you could have looked closer at the pic and compared to title before buying, but doesn’t matter…this should not have passed ebay AG.

The seller is acting kind of jerkish here imo, and they probably know what they are doing. Since as a seller when you have something pass ebay AG, you’re in the clear and keep the money. Even negative feedback left probably won’t stick as it passed authentication. Knowing this, they probably think it’s ok to ghost and nothing lost on their end.

Call eBay. This is a very clear mistake and it should not have passed. I looked at the item listing and seller doesn’t offer returns so the above point about returning is not gonna work. eBay AG sales when seller doesn’t offer returns are final sales, you can’t just return it after it gets authenticated. So call ebay. I’m pretty sure seller is gonna keep their money no matter what, but what might happen is ebay may end up refunding you from their own slush funds. I really hope ebay AG doesn’t routinely not check the label like this, because this whole situation would be very easy to scam if that’s the case.

Definitely not you being in the wrong…from the info given so far, the seller is.

[Jeffsayshi]

I appreciate the extra insight there. Yeah, I do feel like I should have looked at the images closer before I submitted an offer. As you mentioned though I should have to. Even the Topps Update and Topps Chrome doesn’t match up let alone the year.
I generally try to avoid these types of situations as I’ve been in the hobby a long time but every now and then a real odd situation pops up.

I’m going to call eBay and see what they can do. There has to be something. The item is going to vault and shows as 2014 Topps Chrome now so I think I have a case.

Thank you for your thoughts!


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[RL 1953]

if you paid with a credit card, file a charge back with you cc if you don't get anywhere with Ebay

[BoKnowsCards]

You can return within three calendar days. It looks like it would go back to the authenticator. Since the seller does not offer returns, it's not clear if you will have to eat the shipping cost or not (but worth it for you in this case). File a INAD asap if you are within the 3 days.

From Ebay, it's not letting me post the link:

Can buyers return items purchased with Authenticity Guarantee?
Buyers can return an item if you accept returns, as stated in the listing, and the return takes place within your return window. If you do not accept returns, the item will be final sale and not eligible for returns unless the buyer files a return request within three calendar days of delivery as stated in the eBay Money Back Guarantee policy. Items shipping internationally to the U.S. are ineligible for returns under the Authenticity Guarantee program.

How does the return process work with Authenticity Guarantee?
If you choose to offer returns and the buyer decides to return, we will instruct the buyer to send the item back to the authenticator. Your return policy determines whether you or the buyer pays for shipping costs back to the authenticator. Within two business days of receiving the item, the authenticator will re-verify that the raw card or sealed plastic holder is authentic and matches the listing description. Also, the raw card or graded card must have the untampered Authenticity Guarantee sticker still attached to it to be eligible for a return. If the card passes the authenticity re-inspection, the authenticator will ship it to you. Otherwise, the card will be sent back to the buyer. If fraud is detected, eBay will take appropriate action should the buyer be found at fault for fraud.

[BoKnowsCards]

Ebay hates sellers, so there's a 99.99999% chance Ebay will force the return if you're within the 3 calendar days. You have a legitimate INAD. But since you didn't read the description, I think it's fair for the seller to have you pay the shipping costs back to the authenticator.

[Jeffsayshi]

That makes sense. I spoke with a person from eBay and they opened a return for me. Should know more by tomorrow or the next but it sounds like I won’t have to be responsible for any of it. I would be willing to pay the return shipping as someone has suggested here but that’s as far as I’d go with it. Like I said, I figured eBay authentication would have flagged that the listing title was different than the slab being sent to them. Only accurate thing was the players name and the serial out of /50.


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[jamcas997]

IMO this Must have been an impulse Buy not knowing the difference between 2013 and 2014 and also not seeing the picture that clearly showed a 2014 Slab and the question should have been asked before purchase if the correct card was listed. Just my opinion.

[JeffG1954]

I thought that I read in one of the other AG threads here on Blowout that the AG program only authenticates the actual slab, they do nothing with the card itself. I probably misread or misunderstood.

[DynaEtch]

Originally Posted by BoKnowsCards

You can return within three calendar days. It looks like it would go back to the authenticator. Since the seller does not offer returns, it's not clear if you will have to eat the shipping cost or not (but worth it for you in this case). File a INAD asap if you are within the 3 days.

This is not how ebay AG works. The ebay AG return info you are referencing, where the buyer sends it back through eBay AG, is IF the seller accepts returns. The seller in this example does not offer returns, making the eBay listing a final sale.

The only reason OP would be able to return this is because ebay AG made a clear mistake on ID’ing this card against the listing. If this was just any old slabbed card, titled as such in the ebay listing correctly, and ebay AG passed it, OP would not be able to return it. You cant just claim INAD for ebay AG-passed cards and return within 3 days when seller doesn’t offer returns.

I wouldn’t be surprised if ebay itself is taking the return here, rather than the seller, but we’ll see how it plays out. There has always been a motto for ebay sellers and AG, “you’re in the clear once it passes ebay AG”. Well this did…so interesting how that plays out for the seller. If OP’s card does go back to the seller for a refund…that motto is demonstrably false.

[DynaEtch]

Originally Posted by JeffG1954

I thought that I read in one of the other AG threads here on Blowout that the AG program only authenticates the actual slab, they do nothing with the card itself. I probably misread or misunderstood.

This is correct (unfortunately, as it has allowed scamming sellers to scam ebay for up to $20k+ due to 2-bit grading label mistakes).

But eBay AG still botched this because they should be checking the slab label against the listing, which they didn’t do correctly here.

[Bosoxfan5990]

Originally Posted by jamcas997

IMO this Must have been an impulse Buy not knowing the difference between 2013 and 2014 and also not seeing the picture that clearly showed a 2014 Slab and the question should have been asked before purchase if the correct card was listed. Just my opinion.

It could've also been one of those too good to be true deals that OP thought was basically risk-free where they either get the actual rookie for a steal or AG denies the card.

[BoKnowsCards]

Originally Posted by DynaEtch

This is not how ebay AG works. The ebay AG return info you are referencing, where the buyer sends it back through eBay AG, is IF the seller accepts returns. The seller in this example does not offer returns, making the eBay listing a final sale.

The only reason OP would be able to return this is because ebay AG made a clear mistake on ID’ing this card against the listing. If this was just any old slabbed card, titled as such in the ebay listing correctly, and ebay AG passed it, OP would not be able to return it. You cant just claim INAD for ebay AG-passed cards and return within 3 days when seller doesn’t offer returns.

I wouldn’t be surprised if ebay itself is taking the return here, rather than the seller, but we’ll see how it plays out. There has always been a motto for ebay sellers and AG, “you’re in the clear once it passes ebay AG”. Well this did…so interesting how that plays out for the seller. If OP’s card does go back to the seller for a refund…that motto is demonstrably false.

This is exactly how it works. Like anything on Ebay, every seller knows that "no returns" does not mean no returns. Buyers have three calendar days to file an INAD return. If the seller doesn't accept a buyer's return request, Ebay will step in. If the seller still doesn't play ball, the buyer will get a refund and keep the card.

It was in my last post, but here is it again about the buyer being able to return an Ebay AG card even if they have no returns. It's the money back guarantee. This is a case of the photo of the card matching, but the description of the card being completely wrong. I don't see anyway Ebay doesn't rule in the buyer's favor. The seller knew what they were doing with an intentional deceiving listing, or completely missed it, either way he's going to have to take that return.

Can buyers return items purchased with Authenticity Guarantee?
Buyers can return an item if you accept returns, as stated in the listing, and the return takes place within your return window. If you do not accept returns, the item will be final sale and not eligible for returns unless the buyer files a return request within three calendar days of delivery as stated in the eBay Money Back Guarantee policy. Items shipping internationally to the U.S. are ineligible for returns under the Authenticity Guarantee program.

Ebay Money Back Guarantee policy
Sellers are required to deliver the item as it was described in the listing.

[DynaEtch]

Originally Posted by BoKnowsCards

This is exactly how it works. Like anything on Ebay, every seller knows that "no returns" does not mean no returns. Buyers have three calendar days to file an INAD return. If the seller doesn't accept a buyer's return request, Ebay will step in. If the seller still doesn't play ball, the buyer will get a refund and keep the card.

It was in my last post, but here is it again about the buyer being able to return an Ebay AG card even if they have no returns. It's the money back guarantee. This is a case of the photo of the card matching, but the description of the card being completely wrong. I don't see anyway Ebay doesn't rule in the buyer's favor. The seller knew what they were doing with an intentional deceiving listing, or completely missed it, either way he's going to have to take that return.

Can buyers return items purchased with Authenticity Guarantee?
Buyers can return an item if you accept returns, as stated in the listing, and the return takes place within your return window. If you do not accept returns, the item will be final sale and not eligible for returns unless the buyer files a return request within three calendar days of delivery as stated in the eBay Money Back Guarantee policy. Items shipping internationally to the U.S. are ineligible for returns under the Authenticity Guarantee program.

Ebay Money Back Guarantee policy
Sellers are required to deliver the item as it was described in the listing.

So again, it is not how ebay AG works. Look at some more thorough articles in the eBay help pages. Go to the page "Buying with authenticity guarantee", then go to the section on returns:

In the unlikely event that you receive an item that does not match the listing, you may be eligible for eBay Money Back Guarantee. This generally means you can return it even if the seller doesn't accept returns, for example if the item was damaged during shipping. However, some items are considered "final sale" and have limited coverage under eBay Money Back Guarantee.

The item in question says final sale in the listing, as does every eBay AG listing where seller doesn’t offer returns. Go to the listing itself. It will say final sale, and right next to it, it’ll say this item cannot be returned. The 3-day money back guarantee is limited in this scenario of final sale listings.

eBay clearly defines what final sale means in the help page:

What buyers need to know about returns

Some purchases inspected under Authenticity Guarantee are considered final sale. eBay Money Back Guarantee does not cover final sale purchases on the basis that the item doesn't match the listing.

Returns for final sale purchases are only eligible for coverage under eBay Money Back Guarantee when:

The item was damaged during shipping, or
The seller doesn't honor their stated returns policy

Under final sales, when a seller doesn’t offer returns, the only returns allowable are for damage during shipping, it says that explicitly above.

It goes on to say

When the seller doesn't offer returns, or a remorse return request falls outside the seller's return window, the seller may exercise their discretion to accept or deny the return. If the seller chooses to accept the return, this will then be treated as if they had offered returns in the listing.

Sellers’s have discretion with ebay AG-passed items to accept or deny the return. That is NOT the case for regular non-AG transactions, in which case seller must take a return back for INAD.

Wherever you are digging up that brief quote from on eBay, it is contradicted by the verbiage in the more in depth eBay AG return articles.

It is common general seller knowledge that seller is in the clear once it passes ebay AG. I have not ever, either had or even heard of a seller not retaining a sale/money after their trading card successfully passed ebay AG. We’ll see what happens with the OP if they’ll update it…it’s possible with such a 2-bit error from AG ebay might allow it to be reversed, but it still very well might come from eBay rather than the seller. But notice it was the phone rep opening the return rather than OP doing it on their own. Reps probably have control to do that.

If buyers could return any card at will within 3 days for ebay AG-passed cards when seller doesn’t offer returns, you would see this happen (more than basically never), and it would totally change the paradigm ebay sellers who do a lot of ebay AG transactions are familiar with.

I’m not saying in rare cases a buyer can’t contact ebay for an issue (such as a clear mistake in IDing that ebay AG missed), but that would be eBay’s discretion to make the buyer whole, not generally the seller. Buyers can’t in general just return any ebay AG-passed cards within 3 days.

[Jeffsayshi]

I have an update for this. After several phone calls back and forth from eBay they determined that the seller is no longer responsible as the item was authenticated via the authentication process. eBay advised that I need to contact PSA customer service (I did twice) with a handoff time to when the vault accepted the item. The eBay agent assured me that once I do this it’s pretty quick but it isn’t.

After calling PSA that said that I have to contact PSA vault directly via email as they aren’t capable of handling transactions in between vault and regular PSA. So I did. Tuesday.

The purpose of this is for me to be discouraging and eventually give up but I find it more and more frustrating as I go. After 4 days I just heard back from PSA vault today and have to go through the runaround with them now as they say it’s eBay’s responsibility because it’s an eBay transaction.

Standard go around customer bs here. Will update when I hear more.


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[DynaEtch]

It’s unfortunate. But this does match my experience, as well as what I’m hearing from others on multiple forums too: Seller is simply in the clear once their card passes authentication. I cannot recall a single example of a seller having their card pass authentication successfully, then to be out the money/have the card sent back to them.

[Jeffsayshi]

Update: after hounding PSA vault and not hearing from them for a week I emailed them and they said they couldn’t get ahold of senior leadership for eBay customer service.

I called eBay again and had to go through it all and they said that they would request a refund from the buyer. Just got a message from eBay saying that I have been refunded and it shows on my credit card statement! Grand total of 5 phone calls to and from eBay and a dozen or so from PSA and PSA vault.

Only question is now; how do they get the card back to the seller?


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[newcokeandtaco]

Originally Posted by Jeffsayshi

Update: after hounding PSA vault and not hearing from them for a week I emailed them and they said they couldn’t get ahold of senior leadership for eBay customer service.

I called eBay again and had to go through it all and they said that they would request a refund from the buyer. Just got a message from eBay saying that I have been refunded and it shows on my credit card statement! Grand total of 5 phone calls to and from eBay and a dozen or so from PSA and PSA vault.

Only question is now; how do they get the card back to the seller?


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Good to hear this was resolved. Thanks for the update.

Just a guess, but Ebay probably resolved this out of the "customer service" account (whatever one wants to call it). And the seller may not hear a thing about it. Ebay likely owns the card now and its anyone's guess what happens to these items...

[Jeffsayshi]

Thank you for all the help!

Yeah, im not sure who eats the cost. I would hope that the card goes back to the seller as I would prefer not to keep it. It does not seem fair. I emailed the PSA agent i was talking with to see if they take the card or if eBay does.

Such an odd situation


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[Sonnys88]

That's good it was finally resolved.

The biggest issue you were dealing with was that the majority of customer service reps for eBay and PSA do not know the actual material (cards) at all, and read / respond mainly from scripts. So, they probably did not understand the situation fully and know how to process it and find a resolution.

Most likely they just refunded to make the "problem" go away and the card is just owned by whoever refunded the amount. It would never go back to the seller after passing through eBay Authentication. A few hundred dollars barely makes a movement on PSA or eBay's financials, and they keep designated reserves on hand for these types of refunds (as most large retailers do).

[BoKnowsCards]

Glad this got resolved for you. You shouldn't have to make 17 calls to get a refund.

eBay should have forced a refund right off the bat with the seller getting the card back, but we all know with customer service nowadays how they try to make you go away initially and there is a sliding scale for those who scream loudest (the squeaky wheel gets the oil).

It sounds like eBay might be eating this one out of their own pocket. You would think they would want the card back to liquidate it at auction to recoup something.

[Jeffsayshi]

eBay did eat the coach. PSA didn’t explain why but I had to contact them to take the cars out of my vault.
To that standard I could list a 2011 Topps Update Mike Trout RC with a 2012 Topps Chrome Mike Trout and it passes eBay authentication and I don’t get negative feedback? What are they saying here?

Finally decided to give the seller bad feedback and 30 minutes later it was gone from their feedback. They must be good at this by now.


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[Jeffsayshi]

eBay did eat the cost* lol. Not the couch


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