RPA's - Eminence vs. National Treasures vs. Flawless

mcgee2134 · 03-10-2021, 02:46 PM

In the past arguments I've seen on here of Flawless vs. NT. The arguments for Flawless are the lower print runs and game used patches. The arguments against were that it didn't have the 'RC' logo so no one knew the true RPA, so people preferred NT and hence the higher value.

With Eminence having a true RPA (the card's number is RPA-XX), having the game used patches, the 'RC logo, and the boxes costing six times an NT box, will Eminence become the RPA to have someday soon or in the distant future?

Will 2019 Eminence become similar to 2003 Exquisite? As time passes sometimes the most valuable brand changes.

What are your thoughts?

smalltown · 03-10-2021, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcgee2134

Will 2019 Eminence become similar to 2003 Exquisite?

Short answer - No.

Long answer - No. Rarity is a big factor in collecting, but so is heritage and attainability. NT wins out in both those categories. /99 + parallels is rare enough to be sought after but still common enough for people to have a chance to get it.

There are people who will prefer Flawless or Eminence but they don't do anything really different to move the needle. (we've already discovered most collectors don't give a rats #@#@#@ about player worn)

GeechQuest · 03-10-2021, 03:17 PM

Eminence cards or more novelty than collectible. There are so many patch auto sets that they all run together.

The base (true) rookie is just the auto, not the RPA. Similar to how the base (true) rookie in Flawless is the diamond, not the RPA.

That’s not to say collectors won’t want the cards, but that’s a huge hindrance for longevity. Too many options too choose from within the sets and the base (true) rookie is not the RPA. All the RPAs are inserts.

Asian62150 · 03-10-2021, 03:19 PM

It's going to be hard to dethrone NT as the RPA of choice. I agree with smalltown's /99 analysis.

Market could change, but it would take something drastic to do so.

In 2018, I like Flawless for a number of reasons over NT (esp. for Luka stuff--they just messed up the Luka stuff a number of ways). But in general NT is gonna win out. Panini knows it and markets it as such. Fans know it and show it with their wallets.

lietuvalabas · 03-10-2021, 03:53 PM

i am holding a low #ed eminence Zion RPA, not the true, the peerless. but its /3 and i got it in a break.

The Pros are that eminence is so limited, so expensive, and also game worn.

The Cons, kind of going back to the pros is that it is so expensive that really only deep pocketed collectors will be able to afford it, it also doesn't have the brand recognition of being "THEE RPA" like NT has been for over a decade now, and i don't see anyone really dethroning NT in this regard.

That said Eminence could start to be a mainstay if they continually bring the brand back every year now. Let's not forget exquisite didn't become THEE RPA for a few years, people were still keen on Ultimate collection as that was really the first high-end set, and even HHP RPAs, its not to say eminence won't catch on, but it's REALLY hard to dethrone NT.

Paderborn1907 · 03-10-2021, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcgee2134

In the past arguments I've seen on here of Flawless vs. NT. The arguments for Flawless are the lower print runs and game used patches. The arguments against were that it didn't have the 'RC' logo so no one knew the true RPA, so people preferred NT and hence the higher value.

With Eminence having a true RPA (the card's number is RPA-XX), having the game used patches, the 'RC logo, and the boxes costing six times an NT box, will Eminence become the RPA to have someday soon or in the distant future?

Will 2019 Eminence become similar to 2003 Exquisite? As time passes sometimes the most valuable brand changes.

What are your thoughts?

Maybe it’s me being a bit old fashioned, but neither the Flawless nor Eminence RPA’s are True RPA’s

To be a True RPA the card needs to part of the base set and be numbered only.

Hence beside NT being the strongest brand, among the mentioned products it’s the only one with a True RPA.

Ross · 03-10-2021, 04:02 PM

People like psa Bc it is consistent and mentally a “10 is a 10”... BGS struggles Bc based on subs you can have a wide variety of 9.5’s... Same goes with this. NT is the rookie to have, there are only /99 and the variants build off that. I still don’t know year to year what the RPA is in flawless, and eminence is cute but is basically just that... Cute

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

bmf · 03-10-2021, 08:06 PM

For RPA’s:
Upper Deck = Exquisite, second place is not close
Panini = National Treasures, second place is not close

shakobe · 03-10-2021, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asian62150

It's going to be hard to dethrone NT as the RPA of choice. I agree with smalltown's /99 analysis.

Market could change, but it would take something drastic to do so.

In 2018, I like Flawless for a number of reasons over NT (esp. for Luka stuff--they just messed up the Luka stuff a number of ways). But in general NT is gonna win out. Panini knows it and markets it as such. Fans know it and show it with their wallets.

How so did they mess up the Luka stuff? They look pretty sharp to me especially the vertical and the star swatch

Asian62150 · 03-10-2021, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shakobe

How so did they mess up the Luka stuff? They look pretty sharp to me especially the vertical and the star swatch

I meant Panini messed up NT Lukas in 2018 with the horizontal config and the Lulu auto (why cast any doubt on your premier product?).

Only issue I have with 2018 Flawless is the lack of RC shield. But I can see how what I wrote was confusing. My bad.

Also, I don't get why Panini can't just have game-used RPAs in NT. Maybe they figure if one product checks all the boxes, no one will care about the others?

cboog3105 · 03-10-2021, 08:21 PM

i prefer b&w photocopies on premium printer paper

AutoPatchRookie · 11-09-2023, 08:24 PM

Does the analysis change now that only Eminence and Flawless have the actual game worn patches for 2021-22 etc (whereas NT has the dreaded “no affiliation” language?

hermanotarjeta · 11-09-2023, 09:21 PM

I don’t like the thickness of eminence so I favor the game used flawless vertical rpa the most.

Nomad · 11-09-2023, 09:23 PM

Eminence design is also vanilla.

shakobe · 11-09-2023, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AutoPatchRookie

Does the analysis change now that only Eminence and Flawless have the actual game worn patches for 2021-22 etc (whereas NT has the dreaded “no affiliation” language?

Most definitely. If a player never wore a patch/jersey there is absolutely no sense placing it in a card. Eventually collectors will realize this nuance and the post-covid era will be treated differently.

Nomad · 11-09-2023, 10:20 PM

I think you can make a big exception to this for rookies. Wasn't it always the case that most rookie patches were not GU? Or wait, should Flawless really be worth 5x more than NT.

shakobe · 11-09-2023, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nomad

I think you can make a big exception to this for rookies. Wasn't it always the case that most rookie patches were not GU? Or wait, should Flawless really be worth 5x more than NT.

No, rookies were always player worn for NT prior to 2020 and game worn for Flawless and Eminence. Starting 2020 (Lamelo and Antman rookie class) onwards, they are not associated with the player depicted for NT.

Nomad · 11-09-2023, 10:38 PM

Panini should start an aftermarket service department in tandem with Fanatics. It will be called "GU jersey swap out" and the markets will eventually decide whether its better to have non-GU but rookie, or GU but... what will they call it...

Mattsurewood · 11-10-2023, 09:52 AM

For me, Game Used trumps any event-worn..

I have no issues with the thickness of the Eminence cards...

I'd rank them Flawless/Eminence/NT in that order.

I know I'm in the extreme minority, as proven by sales...

But, I like the Eminence cards and would much rather have Game Used...the true Eminence RPAs are extremely limited (2019-20's are Base /10, Gold /5, Emerald/3, Platinum 1/1 I believe)...and while rarity doesn't equate to value, it's nice having something you know will not pop up available too often as time goes on..

meltedvanilluxe · 11-10-2023, 11:21 AM

"True" is the most overrused term in the hobby (in most cases)

Collect what you want.

shakobe · 11-11-2023, 02:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattsurewood

For me, Game Used trumps any event-worn..

I have no issues with the thickness of the Eminence cards...

I'd rank them Flawless/Eminence/NT in that order.

I know I'm in the extreme minority, as proven by sales...

But, I like the Eminence cards and would much rather have Game Used...the true Eminence RPAs are extremely limited (2019-20's are Base /10, Gold /5, Emerald/3, Platinum 1/1 I believe)...and while rarity doesn't equate to value, it's nice having something you know will not pop up available too often as time goes on..

Well said. Rookie game used will age very well if they become superstars. Not even Kobe or Jordan had rpas and look how much their rookie game used jerseys fetch. What may be true today may be different tomorrow (see Finest vs Chrome)

03-10-2021, 02:46 PM	#1
mcgee2134 Member Join Date: Aug 2019 Location: Twin Cities, MN Posts: 587	RPA's - Eminence vs. National Treasures vs. Flawless In the past arguments I've seen on here of Flawless vs. NT. The arguments for Flawless are the lower print runs and game used patches. The arguments against were that it didn't have the 'RC' logo so no one knew the true RPA, so people preferred NT and hence the higher value. With Eminence having a true RPA (the card's number is RPA-XX), having the game used patches, the 'RC logo, and the boxes costing six times an NT box, will Eminence become the RPA to have someday soon or in the distant future? Will 2019 Eminence become similar to 2003 Exquisite? As time passes sometimes the most valuable brand changes. What are your thoughts?

03-10-2021, 03:19 PM	#4
Asian62150 Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 6,182 Asian62150	It's going to be hard to dethrone NT as the RPA of choice. I agree with smalltown's /99 analysis. Market could change, but it would take something drastic to do so. In 2018, I like Flawless for a number of reasons over NT (esp. for Luka stuff--they just messed up the Luka stuff a number of ways). But in general NT is gonna win out. Panini knows it and markets it as such. Fans know it and show it with their wallets. __________________ IG: Asian62150

03-10-2021, 04:02 PM	#7
Ross Member Join Date: Nov 2015 Posts: 2,476	People like psa Bc it is consistent and mentally a “10 is a 10”... BGS struggles Bc based on subs you can have a wide variety of 9.5’s... Same goes with this. NT is the rookie to have, there are only /99 and the variants build off that. I still don’t know year to year what the RPA is in flawless, and eminence is cute but is basically just that... Cute Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk __________________ NONE

11-10-2023, 11:21 AM	#20
meltedvanilluxe Member Join Date: Nov 2021 Posts: 223 rnortekled	"True" is the most overrused term in the hobby (in most cases) Collect what you want. __________________ Check out my Tee Higgins collection! https://www.flickr.com/photos/198979631@N02/albums Last edited by meltedvanilluxe; 11-10-2023 at 11:47 AM.

03-10-2021, 03:17 PM	#3
GeechQuest Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Cedar Park, TX Posts: 10,779 GeechQuest	Eminence cards or more novelty than collectible. There are so many patch auto sets that they all run together. The base (true) rookie is just the auto, not the RPA. Similar to how the base (true) rookie in Flawless is the diamond, not the RPA. That’s not to say collectors won’t want the cards, but that’s a huge hindrance for longevity. Too many options too choose from within the sets and the base (true) rookie is not the RPA. All the RPAs are inserts.

03-10-2021, 03:53 PM	#5
lietuvalabas Banned Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Illinois Posts: 4,360	i am holding a low #ed eminence Zion RPA, not the true, the peerless. but its /3 and i got it in a break. The Pros are that eminence is so limited, so expensive, and also game worn. The Cons, kind of going back to the pros is that it is so expensive that really only deep pocketed collectors will be able to afford it, it also doesn't have the brand recognition of being "THEE RPA" like NT has been for over a decade now, and i don't see anyone really dethroning NT in this regard. That said Eminence could start to be a mainstay if they continually bring the brand back every year now. Let's not forget exquisite didn't become THEE RPA for a few years, people were still keen on Ultimate collection as that was really the first high-end set, and even HHP RPAs, its not to say eminence won't catch on, but it's REALLY hard to dethrone NT.

03-10-2021, 08:06 PM	#8
bmf Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,190	For RPA’s: Upper Deck = Exquisite, second place is not close Panini = National Treasures, second place is not close

03-10-2021, 08:21 PM	#11
cboog3105 Member Join Date: Feb 2020 Posts: 1,146 cboog3105	i prefer b&w photocopies on premium printer paper

11-09-2023, 08:24 PM	#12
AutoPatchRookie Member Join Date: Jan 2022 Posts: 257	Does the analysis change now that only Eminence and Flawless have the actual game worn patches for 2021-22 etc (whereas NT has the dreaded “no affiliation” language?

11-09-2023, 09:21 PM	#13
hermanotarjeta Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 20,589	I don’t like the thickness of eminence so I favor the game used flawless vertical rpa the most.

11-09-2023, 09:23 PM	#14
Nomad Member Join Date: Jul 2021 Location: Fomenting FOMO on the down low. Posts: 8,058	Eminence design is also vanilla.

11-09-2023, 10:20 PM	#16
Nomad Member Join Date: Jul 2021 Location: Fomenting FOMO on the down low. Posts: 8,058	I think you can make a big exception to this for rookies. Wasn't it always the case that most rookie patches were not GU? Or wait, should Flawless really be worth 5x more than NT.

11-09-2023, 10:38 PM	#18
Nomad Member Join Date: Jul 2021 Location: Fomenting FOMO on the down low. Posts: 8,058	Panini should start an aftermarket service department in tandem with Fanatics. It will be called "GU jersey swap out" and the markets will eventually decide whether its better to have non-GU but rookie, or GU but... what will they call it...

11-10-2023, 09:52 AM	#19
Mattsurewood Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 4,316 greenbeltsux	For me, Game Used trumps any event-worn.. I have no issues with the thickness of the Eminence cards... I'd rank them Flawless/Eminence/NT in that order. I know I'm in the extreme minority, as proven by sales... But, I like the Eminence cards and would much rather have Game Used...the true Eminence RPAs are extremely limited (2019-20's are Base /10, Gold /5, Emerald/3, Platinum 1/1 I believe)...and while rarity doesn't equate to value, it's nice having something you know will not pop up available too often as time goes on..