Are the Orioles frauds?

boxbuster7 · 10-01-2024, 05:41 PM

I know this series isn't over but they have been one of the most hyped teams of the last couple years. They've rewritten the book on how to build a farm system and young core but are on the verge of getting swept 2 years in a row in the wild card round.

discuss.

gowizards0 · 10-01-2024, 05:50 PM

yep, that was pathetic to watch. 9 playoff losses in a row

JWBlue · 10-01-2024, 05:51 PM

They have little to no chance of winning the World Series. Their bullpen is awful.

mfw13 · 10-01-2024, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boxbuster7

I know this series isn't over but they have been one of the most hyped teams of the last couple years. They've rewritten the book on how to build a farm system and young core but are on the verge of getting swept 2 years in a row in the wild card round.

discuss.

Bit of an overreaction to losing a 1-0 pitching duel between two aces......

Its always been true that good pitching beats good hitting in the postseason, and that's even more true in this day and age.

Hollywood42 · 10-01-2024, 06:14 PM

These past 2 years have been the very start of their competitive window, and it's going to stay open for a long time. Whether or not they bring home a title during it or not, who knows, but I think it's silly to call them frauds based on 3 games lost to the eventual World Series champs last year plus one game this year

oddstuff · 10-01-2024, 06:19 PM

The offense needs to step it up as their strength is not in their pitching. Opportunity for Gunnar to show his stuff.

boxbuster7 · 10-01-2024, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfw13

Bit of an overreaction to losing a 1-0 pitching duel between two aces......

Its always been true that good pitching beats good hitting in the postseason, and that's even more true in this day and age.

Corbin Burnes is a tier above Ragans in experience - He did his job but ultimately still lost.

JustinVerlander07 · 10-01-2024, 07:31 PM

They are probably gonna regret making trades around the fringes instead of trading for a Skubal type player at the deadline.

Osfan81 · 10-01-2024, 08:07 PM

Their manager was great for the rebuild. He had patience, and he was even keeled. Players love him. However, the time has come for a new direction. He's so stale. In those 2 Tigers series at the end of the season, Hinch ran circles around Hyde because every move Hyde makes is predictable. He runs percentages on everything. There's no hit and run, no bunting. No moving runners over. Westburg's hit was a home run in 28 of 30 stadiums. When you live and die by the home run, that wall in left field means you'll die by the home run with their hitting approach. If you have a big left field wall, learn to play small ball. Hyde hasn't done that. They will never win a World Series with Hyde as manager.

Osfan81 · 10-01-2024, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustinVerlander07

They are probably gonna regret making trades around the fringes instead of trading for a Skubal type player at the deadline.

Eflin was not a fringe trade acquisition. He was probably the best starter traded at the deadline. Rest of the guys they added, yup...but it's the offense, the offensive game plan, and the management decisions while batting that have done them in last 2 months.

JustinVerlander07 · 10-01-2024, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Osfan81

Eflin was not a fringe trade acquisition. He was probably the best starter traded at the deadline. Rest of the guys they added, yup...but it's the offense, the offensive game plan, and the management decisions while batting that have done them in last 2 months.

He's been pretty good since the trade, but it most definitely was a fringe move and not trading for a guy to put them over the top. Your bias should even know that.

Scottish Punk · 10-01-2024, 08:48 PM

I don't remember that many big name pitchers on the move during the trade deadline. I don't think Skubal was really available. Who should have the Orioles traded for?

mfw13 · 10-01-2024, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scottish Punk

I don't remember that many big name pitchers on the move during the trade deadline. I don't think Skubal was really available. Who should have the Orioles traded for?

Snell......they certainly have enough good young players that they could have put together an attractive package for the Giants had they chosen to do so.

mfw13 · 10-01-2024, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hollywood42

These past 2 years have been the very start of their competitive window, and it's going to stay open for a long time.

That kinda of depends on whether they sign their good young players to long term deals, or cheap out and trade them.

Rutschmann is under team control for three more seasons, Gunnar for four more seasons.

Burnes and Santander are FA's as soon as the last out of the World Series is made.

If Jackson Holiday doesn't develop into a productive major leaguer (and plenty of #1 picks haven't), their window could be shorter than people think. They only finished 2nd in the AL East this year, and could easily slip back to 3rd/4th (and out of the playoffs) next season.

Osfan81 · 10-01-2024, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scottish Punk

I don't remember that many big name pitchers on the move during the trade deadline. I don't think Skubal was really available. Who should have the Orioles traded for?

Exactly...he was the biggest name pitcher moved at the deadline. I challenge anybody to find a better one that was dealt...

no10pin · 10-01-2024, 09:52 PM

I think it's a little early to call them frauds, but he shouldn't have been suspended for it!

Rbradleigh · 10-01-2024, 10:01 PM

I’m liking Connor Norby’s future with the Marlins, enjoy Trevor Rogers during the window.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hollywood42 · 10-01-2024, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfw13

That kinda of depends on whether they sign their good young players to long term deals, or cheap out and trade them.

Rutschmann is under team control for three more seasons, Gunnar for four more seasons.

Burnes and Santander are FA's as soon as the last out of the World Series is made.

If Jackson Holiday doesn't develop into a productive major leaguer (and plenty of #1 picks haven't), their window could be shorter than people think. They only finished 2nd in the AL East this year, and could easily slip back to 3rd/4th (and out of the playoffs) next season.

Extensions do matter but everything I've seen from the new owner makes me think things will be much different from the past. But even saying that:

Gunnar isn't a FA until 2029
Adley 2028
Cowser 2030
Westburg 2030
Bradish 2029
Grayson 2030

Even if we stop there and don't include other guys like Holliday, Cano, and Mountcastle, or yet even more top 10 prospects like Mayo and Basallo, that's still an incredible core that you have even without extensions for a longtime. I do think they need to figure some pitching stuff out, and that was my critique at the trade deadline, but hopefully we'll see them spend some money to address this in the offseason

Quote:

Originally Posted by Osfan81

Exactly...he was the biggest name pitcher moved at the deadline. I challenge anybody to find a better one that was dealt...

I think the key thing here is that sure, there weren't really any massive named pitchers moved (though I'll say I think someone like Flaherty would have been a big pickup for the O's), but the O's absolutely had the pieces to pull off a massive blockbuster and really go for the throat. And they elected not to, for better or worse

mfw13 · 10-01-2024, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hollywood42

Extensions do matter but everything I've seen from the new owner makes me think things will be much different from the past. But even saying that:

Gunnar isn't a FA until 2029
Adley 2028
Cowser 2030
Westburg 2030
Bradish 2029
Grayson 2030

Even if we stop there and don't include other guys like Holliday, Cano, and Mountcastle, or yet even more top 10 prospects like Mayo and Basallo, that's still an incredible core that you have even without extensions for a longtime.

That might turn out to be a great core, and it might not. Even the best prospects are anything but sure things, and when you're in the same division as the Yankees, Red Sox, and Rays, your margin for error is pretty small.

jdandns · 10-01-2024, 10:28 PM

Yes, even someone with only limited ornithological expertise can see that they are, in fact, Venezuelan Troupials.

UMich92 · 10-01-2024, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scottish Punk

I don't remember that many big name pitchers on the move during the trade deadline. I don't think Skubal was really available. Who should have the Orioles traded for?

Based on what the Tigers got from the Dodgers for Flaherty, I think the Orioles may regret not ponying up for the rental. As a Tigers fan, I'm happy with how it's worked out but the return was underwhelming.

auctionjmm · 10-02-2024, 04:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfw13

That kinda of depends on whether they sign their good young players to long term deals, or cheap out and trade them.

Rutschmann is under team control for three more seasons, Gunnar for four more seasons.

Burnes and Santander are FA's as soon as the last out of the World Series is made.

If Jackson Holiday doesn't develop into a productive major leaguer (and plenty of #1 picks haven't), their window could be shorter than people think. They only finished 2nd in the AL East this year, and could easily slip back to 3rd/4th (and out of the playoffs) next season.

MLB playoff windows are way different than other sports. Look at the Guardians. This is their 6th playoff berth in 9 years starting with their 2016 world series run and they haven't missed two years in a row yet. Yes, it took good trades and drafting to accomplish this but there doesn't seem to be an end in sight yet with the current roster and 4th best farm system. The Orioles farm is #3, so they are positioned similarly. We could still be talking about the Orioles window in 2035. It's setup to be quite wide.

panthers59 · 10-02-2024, 07:13 AM

They didn't get swept in WC last year. They had a bye...
They will win today and force a game 3

fabiani12333 · 10-02-2024, 08:09 AM

Maybe they aren't that good?

They were a .500 ball club in the second half -- a 33-33 record, with 312 runs scored and 305 runs allowed.

finfangfan · 10-02-2024, 08:18 AM

They lost 1-0 in a pitching duel. As mentioned above this is year 2 of their window.

We already know 2025 will have its challenges with the Orioles 2023 ace (Bradish) out for most of the year, their ace of the lousy years (Means) being gone for good after a slew of injuries, and their 2024 ace (Burnes) likely signing a huge deal with one of the big market teams. It would be hard for any team to compete after losing so many key components to their pitching staff.

But I wouldn’t call the Orioles frauds. They still had one of the best records in the AL and as of this morning are still in the position to continue to play 2024 playoff games.

10-01-2024, 05:50 PM	#2
gowizards0 Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: dc Posts: 7,172	yep, that was pathetic to watch. 9 playoff losses in a row __________________ https://www.flickr.com/gp/76567484@N05/x3no8r Collect Pokemon, 2000s Basketball Football Follow me on Instagram! CardCatcherJ

10-01-2024, 06:14 PM	#5
Hollywood42 Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Minnesota Posts: 39,358 Hollywood42	These past 2 years have been the very start of their competitive window, and it's going to stay open for a long time. Whether or not they bring home a title during it or not, who knows, but I think it's silly to call them frauds based on 3 games lost to the eventual World Series champs last year plus one game this year __________________ Collecting the Twins All my PC wants/haves available at hollywood42cards.com

10-01-2024, 07:31 PM	#8
JustinVerlander07 Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: michigan Posts: 16,501 gladdyontherise gladdyontherise	They are probably gonna regret making trades around the fringes instead of trading for a Skubal type player at the deadline. __________________ Dan LeFevour PC 214/299 "Cavs in 7. Write it down"

10-01-2024, 09:52 PM	#16
no10pin Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 16,773 no10pin no10pin	I think it's a little early to call them frauds, but he shouldn't have been suspended for it! __________________ Always looking for more George Brett stuff. Need more rookies, low numbered inserts/parallels and on-card autos (no Panini).

10-01-2024, 10:28 PM	#20
jdandns Member Join Date: May 2015 Location: Southern California Posts: 22,366	Yes, even someone with only limited ornithological expertise can see that they are, in fact, Venezuelan Troupials. __________________ Da-da-da, dat-da, dat, da-da-da, da-ya-da Da-da, dat, dat, da-ya-da Da-da-da, dat-da, dat, da-da-da, da-ya-da Da-da, dat, dat, da-ya!

10-01-2024, 05:41 PM	#1
boxbuster7 Member Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 11,597 boxbuster777	Are the Orioles frauds? I know this series isn't over but they have been one of the most hyped teams of the last couple years. They've rewritten the book on how to build a farm system and young core but are on the verge of getting swept 2 years in a row in the wild card round. discuss. __________________ Psa 9 > psa 10

10-01-2024, 05:51 PM	#3
JWBlue Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 9,289	They have little to no chance of winning the World Series. Their bullpen is awful.

10-01-2024, 06:19 PM	#6
oddstuff Member Join Date: Dec 2017 Location: CA Posts: 5,018	The offense needs to step it up as their strength is not in their pitching. Opportunity for Gunnar to show his stuff.

10-01-2024, 08:07 PM	#9
Osfan81 Member Join Date: Dec 2021 Location: Maryland Posts: 259	Their manager was great for the rebuild. He had patience, and he was even keeled. Players love him. However, the time has come for a new direction. He's so stale. In those 2 Tigers series at the end of the season, Hinch ran circles around Hyde because every move Hyde makes is predictable. He runs percentages on everything. There's no hit and run, no bunting. No moving runners over. Westburg's hit was a home run in 28 of 30 stadiums. When you live and die by the home run, that wall in left field means you'll die by the home run with their hitting approach. If you have a big left field wall, learn to play small ball. Hyde hasn't done that. They will never win a World Series with Hyde as manager.

10-01-2024, 08:48 PM	#12
Scottish Punk Member Join Date: May 2013 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 9,287 scottishpunk	I don't remember that many big name pitchers on the move during the trade deadline. I don't think Skubal was really available. Who should have the Orioles traded for?

10-01-2024, 10:01 PM	#17
Rbradleigh Member Join Date: Jun 2021 Location: Kent, WA Posts: 1,451	I’m liking Connor Norby’s future with the Marlins, enjoy Trevor Rogers during the window. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

10-02-2024, 07:13 AM	#23
panthers59 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: charlotte nc Posts: 881 rmcards68	They didn't get swept in WC last year. They had a bye... They will win today and force a game 3

10-02-2024, 08:09 AM	#24
fabiani12333 Member Join Date: Jan 2017 Posts: 10,982	Maybe they aren't that good? They were a .500 ball club in the second half -- a 33-33 record, with 312 runs scored and 305 runs allowed.

10-02-2024, 08:18 AM	#25
finfangfan Member Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 10,506	They lost 1-0 in a pitching duel. As mentioned above this is year 2 of their window. We already know 2025 will have its challenges with the Orioles 2023 ace (Bradish) out for most of the year, their ace of the lousy years (Means) being gone for good after a slew of injuries, and their 2024 ace (Burnes) likely signing a huge deal with one of the big market teams. It would be hard for any team to compete after losing so many key components to their pitching staff. But I wouldn’t call the Orioles frauds. They still had one of the best records in the AL and as of this morning are still in the position to continue to play 2024 playoff games.