Just a warning about Marvel anything from Upper Deck

[1212superstar]

So I've had really bad luck this year pulling anything and last year on Epack, but in 2022 I pulled a Green PMG Spider Man #76 which i sold for $39,999 on COMC so I've been hooked since.

My best pulls this year:

Kingpin Marvel Platinum Auto /35 last sold for $55 in July on Ebay

Weapon X Credentials /26 - the /99 version sold for $50 so /26 = $150-$200?

Professor X Credentials /55 - last sold in July for $45

Some Auto from the Anime stuff which sold as high as $200

----------

Results:

After weeks of trying to sell each card I ended up getting $6 for Kingpin on COMC, Weapon X for $33 and Professor X for $7 lol...the auto from Anime I got $30 for

------

Notice a trend? BEWARE

[DynaEtch]

It’s a different world than selling during the pandemic.

External economic factors, and so many Marvel sets that the hobby is spread way thin. It’s also not easy in my experience to get good sales on COMC. Just the nature of the place, it’s a buyer friendly marketplace. Each bucket has a race to the bottom in it, a total flood of stuff coming from ePack on it, etc.

You know what I also think is going on? Let’s break the Marvel card hobby down into 3 sectors:

-Gamblers
-Flippers
-Collectors

(I know they are not mutually exclusive and overlap some, but for simplicity).

There are *not* a lot of collectors in marvel cards nowadays. I’ve made some anecdotal observations- particularly from social media and Reddit etc, where people pull cards and are always wondering immediately what they’re worth, and then you see the cards for sale on the market soon after if not already on. Ok people master set the oldies/goodies like 90s marvel. They may even character collect and that includes from new sets. But a lot of these new sets? Platinum, Metals, etc? Not a ton of collectors (set collectors almost obsolete with these huge sets)….people are into these sets for the money, primarily gambling. You need end collectors to have stuff hold longer term value though.

But what I’m getting at: singles prices are only influenced by 2 of the above 3: Flippers and collectors- they are the only ones buying singles. You can’t gamble with singles. During the pandemic, the flipper sector was HUGE. Thus prices went way up. People could make a buck on buying singles and did so at high prices. Then after prices came down the flippers all got discouraged, many left. So you are left with the gamblers still- who buy up any and everything on epack for a gambling fix- but you need those other two sectors for their “hits” to be worth that much. The gamblers are often not going to the market to buy singles, they just want to open packs and then sell off their hits. So with a lot less people actively flipping, it’s left to mainly the collectors to buy up whatever the gamblers are pulling. And number of collectors as mentioned is not a lot in marvel cards. Much of the pandemic crowd that came are not collectors.

[TimBuckTwo]

Originally Posted by DynaEtch

It’s a different world than selling during the pandemic.

External economic factors, and so many Marvel sets that the hobby is spread way thin. It’s also not easy in my experience to get good sales on COMC. Just the nature of the place, it’s a buyer friendly marketplace. Each bucket has a race to the bottom in it, a total flood of stuff coming from ePack on it, etc.

You know what I also think is going on? Let’s break the Marvel card hobby down into 3 sectors:

-Gamblers
-Flippers
-Collectors
4- MONEY LAUNDERERS

(I know they are not mutually exclusive and overlap some, but for simplicity).

There are *not* a lot of collectors in marvel cards nowadays. I’ve made some anecdotal observations- particularly from social media and Reddit etc, where people pull cards and are always wondering immediately what they’re worth, and then you see the cards for sale on the market soon after if not already on. Ok people master set the oldies/goodies like 90s marvel. They may even character collect and that includes from new sets. But a lot of these new sets? Platinum, Metals, etc? Not a ton of collectors (set collectors almost obsolete with these huge sets)….people are into these sets for the money, primarily gambling. You need end collectors to have stuff hold longer term value though.

But what I’m getting at: singles prices are only influenced by 2 of the above 3: Flippers and collectors- they are the only ones buying singles. You can’t gamble with singles. During the pandemic, the flipper sector was HUGE. Thus prices went way up. People could make a buck on buying singles and did so at high prices. Then after prices came down the flippers all got discouraged, many left. So you are left with the gamblers still- who buy up any and everything on epack for a gambling fix- but you need those other two sectors for their “hits” to be worth that much. The gamblers are often not going to the market to buy singles, they just want to open packs and then sell off their hits. So with a lot less people actively flipping, it’s left to mainly the collectors to buy up whatever the gamblers are pulling. And number of collectors as mentioned is not a lot in marvel cards. Much of the pandemic crowd that came are not collectors.

4- MONEY LAUNDERERS

Fixed

[Angus Con]

I also would add that people are still using Covid pricing to try to sell their Marvel hits. I get it to an extent because it's not like UD has ever really corrected their product pricing since things have dipped. But people think because you are buying overpriced packs that somehow that the pulls are worth some inflated amount as well. I can only hope that UD resets their pricing with DC, but that's just unrealistic hope on my part. Their hockey products are super out of control already too.

[comicbooksgo]

Just out of curiosity, how much did you open to get these hits?

Originally Posted by 1212superstar

So I've had really bad luck this year pulling anything and last year on Epack, but in 2022 I pulled a Green PMG Spider Man #76 which i sold for $39,999 on COMC so I've been hooked since.

My best pulls this year:

Kingpin Marvel Platinum Auto /35 last sold for $55 in July on Ebay

Weapon X Credentials /26 - the /99 version sold for $50 so /26 = $150-$200?

Professor X Credentials /55 - last sold in July for $45

Some Auto from the Anime stuff which sold as high as $200

----------

Results:

After weeks of trying to sell each card I ended up getting $6 for Kingpin on COMC, Weapon X for $33 and Professor X for $7 lol...the auto from Anime I got $30 for

------

Notice a trend? BEWARE

[1212superstar]

Originally Posted by comicbooksgo

Just out of curiosity, how much did you open to get these hits?

I was curious so i checked 2024 history.... $4400 for a pile of trash

There's a lot of little hits but those were the main ones

[Icollectstuff]

I think most card collectors by this point know and realize that card prices have come down....

I think that people also realize card prices can change drastically from day to day, week to week and month to month... this is for cards in general.

For example on February 20th of 2024 I sold a csg 10 chl first draft card of connor bedard for 115... a psa 10 of that card which is a more respected grading company as far as sale prices go have most recently been selling for around 50 on ebay...

[Rictor]

What are we supposed to beware of exactly? That Upper Deck cards are worth less than what it costs to open them? I think that's common knowledge and true of all manufacturers. That's why a lot of collectors buy singles instead of breaking wax.

Breaking trading cards is buying lottery tickets. It's not an investment.

[1212superstar]

Originally Posted by Rictor

What are we supposed to beware of exactly? That Upper Deck cards are worth less than what it costs to open them? I think that's common knowledge and true of all manufacturers. That's why a lot of collectors buy singles instead of breaking wax.

Breaking trading cards is buying lottery tickets. It's not an investment.

the point is, when you DO get the "big" hit it's not worth nearly as much as you'd think, regardless of previous ebay sales

thanks for stating the obvious

[glorbgorb]

I read your whole initial post, and when done all I could think of was "well yeah, duh!"

You're chasing that lightning in a bottle that was the 2022 (and multi-year) covid era. A lot has changed in two years. Unfortunately people still think any relatively low-numbered card (75 or less, though I would argue that 75 or 50 is just not rare these days) is a gold mine.

[dd316]

Originally Posted by 1212superstar

the point is, when you DO get the "big" hit it's not worth nearly as much as you'd think, regardless of previous ebay sales

thanks for stating the obvious

Rictor's correct, though. I don't know what you're getting at with this post?

And this topic was discussed to death during the pandemic - we all knew the bubble would burst. Sorry you got caught up in it - those who reaped the rewards did so at the peak in 2021.

[Icollectstuff]

Originally Posted by 1212superstar

the point is, when you DO get the "big" hit it's not worth nearly as much as you'd think, regardless of previous ebay sales

thanks for stating the obvious

Card prices can have a pretty large range between highs and lows... I think most people know that though...

There are a number of things that go in to a price of a card...

How close to the release is one sale over the other? Often the first cards to hit get the highest prices.

How many copies of a card have sold recently?

How many copies of that card are currently for sale?

How big is a characters collector base?



Like professor x he is a very important character in comic history but is he even a top 20 marvel character when it comes to cards? He definitely isn't top 10 or 15 same goes for kingpin...

So with those 2 examples the people looking for those cards is a smaller number...

[BobCollects]

I think the takeaway here is someone vastly overpaid for your Green PMG Spider Man #76 back in 2022. You hit the jackpot with that card.

[imwonderboy]

Originally Posted by BobCollects

I think the takeaway here is someone vastly overpaid for your Green PMG Spider Man #76 back in 2022. You hit the jackpot with that card.

THIS - you should have quit while you were ahead....

[jdhaugh11]

Many of the points people are making above are correct, but for me, the OP & many others, they are not getting the hits at typical pack odd rates & me like the OP have not hit anything good in years. When I first started buying e-pack, I would hit and miss, now it's nothing but miss every time.

[DynaEtch]

Part of the issue is wax is just so out of sync with singles. Like in MM22…..UD considers a base battle spectrum or base holofoil as a “hit”, they come like one a box. Those cards go for laughable amounts-sometimes under $2- compared to the price of a pack which is $43. This is normal in all cards like sports, not just marvel. But it particularly jumped out to me with MM22. A plexiglass amber, another hit to chase, is often going for less than one pack. A teal BSG- pretty nice hit, goes for not much more than 1-2 packs. Speckles go for less than a pack often, as do some mirages.

It's all very top heavy, people are going for the mega lotto type hits like 1/1s, green /10s, redemptions, autos, crazy sketches. Outside of that prices arent gonna be that substantial. It's also top heavy in terms of character with the top few ones far and away.

[Archangel1775]

At this point once Topps takes over completely, after the initial Chrome hype dies down, the MCU will be what drives sales outside of the supreme characters. IF Disney Marvel can do newbies Miles Morales, Spider-Gwen and say someone like SM 2099, there could be a nice return on their cards.

As for Upper Deck, DC is going to be nice with all the characters done in their legacy inserts sets. The DCU is going to be outstanding if they can go that route. I understand that $4400 is a lot of money but these days that is at most 2 cases of premium non-sports product. If its highly sought after, probbaly just a case. Though I understand the disappointment, there are some spending $25k to $100k for cases on ePack, which is crazy itself but hitting one card equivalent to that SM PMG green you hit. Congrats on that one and gl in future purchases.

[Rictor]

Originally Posted by DynaEtch

Part of the issue is wax is just so out of sync with singles. Like in MM22…..UD considers a base battle spectrum or base holofoil as a “hit”, they come like one a box. Those cards go for laughable amounts-sometimes under $2- compared to the price of a pack which is $43. This is normal in all cards like sports, not just marvel. But it particularly jumped out to me with MM22. A plexiglass amber, another hit to chase, is often going for less than one pack. A teal BSG- pretty nice hit, goes for not much more than 1-2 packs. Speckles go for less than a pack often, as do some mirages.

I think it's worse in sports. Your box hits are almost always going to be some player nobody has ever heard of that goes for a buck. Even if you do group breaks and just buy your favorite team, you'll lose money hand over fist. Singles are the way to go. But people open $20,000 worth of boxes and forget all the bad hits when they get that one $1,000 hot rookie auto, forgetting that they're still $19,000 in the hole. It's a common symptom of gambling. You remember the wins and forget the losses. I'm surprised the government doesn't make card companies print a gambling hotline on packs of cards.

Epack makes the gambling so much easier though. I overspent myself years ago, but that was when packs were much cheaper and even they I'd wait for the 50% off sales. I'm not even tempted when even the low end sets like Marvel Annual are $6.99/pack. Sketches in Marvel Annual aren't even 1 per $1,729 case!

[armyml]

Originally Posted by Rictor

I think it's worse in sports. Your box hits are almost always going to be some player nobody has ever heard of that goes for a buck. Even if you do group breaks and just buy your favorite team, you'll lose money hand over fist. Singles are the way to go. But people open $20,000 worth of boxes and forget all the bad hits when they get that one $1,000 hot rookie auto, forgetting that they're still $19,000 in the hole. It's a common symptom of gambling. You remember the wins and forget the losses. I'm surprised the government doesn't make card companies print a gambling hotline on packs of cards.

Epack makes the gambling so much easier though. I overspent myself years ago, but that was when packs were much cheaper and even they I'd wait for the 50% off sales. I'm not even tempted when even the low end sets like Marvel Annual are $6.99/pack. Sketches in Marvel Annual aren't even 1 per $1,729 case!

This. As someone that owns a hobby shop and has access to cases of both sports and non-sports I can definitively tell you that when ripping its much much easier making back cost with Marvel/Star Wars than it is ANY sports unless you hit a lotto ticket. And the chase guys in sports definitely feel short printed.

[ThatGuyPal]

Someone in a sports thread said I was basically nuts for saying a $10K card isn't necessarily the "hit of a lifetime" for everyone. This thread proves my point perfectly, OP hit a card he sold for $40K which probably is the hit of a lifetime and is still out searching for the unicorn. Everyone has a "hit of a lifetime" until it's hit an then they search for the next one .

I'd never complain about my sales again if I made that much on one sale

[DynaEtch]

Originally Posted by ThatGuyPal

Someone in a sports thread said I was basically nuts for saying a $10K card isn't necessarily the "hit of a lifetime" for everyone. This thread proves my point perfectly, OP hit a card he sold for $40K which probably is the hit of a lifetime and is still out searching for the unicorn. Everyone has a "hit of a lifetime" until it's hit an then they search for the next one .

I'd never complain about my sales again if I made that much on one sale

I’d have to agree, that is a crazy, unicorn type sale that needed the stars aligned- pandemic PMG craze, whale buyers out there at the time…it’s just so uncommon in nonsports cards to see that kind of money being thrown around. Comic books? Commonplace. Nonsports cards? No.

I have never sold anything for even a 5th of that, could only dream of pulling a card worth into those numbers. I can see how that could skew one’s perspective though…odds are nothing will be close to matching that and it’s downhill then

[HiltonL]

Originally Posted by ThatGuyPal

Someone in a sports thread said I was basically nuts for saying a $10K card isn't necessarily the "hit of a lifetime" for everyone. This thread proves my point perfectly, OP hit a card he sold for $40K which probably is the hit of a lifetime and is still out searching for the unicorn. Everyone has a "hit of a lifetime" until it's hit an then they search for the next one .

I'd never complain about my sales again if I made that much on one sale

1970's you still thinks $25 for a card is a 'hit of a lifetime'.

This just shows how easily people forget where they came from and greed takes hold of them. In 2040, base cards from MM96 will be $125 minimum each and collectors will insist they need to spend $1000s on PSA 10s for everything. It's a ridiculous cycle

[Spider-Fan]

I used to be a regular in this forum and was heavily collecting marvel at that time. Upperdeck turned the hobby into trash and Topps will continue that legacy. Insanely priced packs and a neverending trash rainbow of parallels.

I can open Topps electronic packs for free and get the same garbage in digital form without having to take out a second mortgage. The first Marvel Premier was an awesome set, but it was also the beginning of the end.

Good luck everyone

[DynaEtch]

Besides the early Premiers, I will give credit to UD for one thing, their Masterpieces line.

2007-2008 were beloved sets (almost entirely due to the sketches), and 2016-2022 were single artist original painting sets, including MM16 from Joe Jusko himself. Did it become higher end? Yes, but these were solid entries for marvel cards.

Almost anything else from UD Im not a fan of, and the parallel galore gambling has gotten out of control, the concept imported directly from sports with its Prizm and Chrome.

[glorbgorb]

Originally Posted by DynaEtch

Almost anything else from UD Im not a fan of, and the parallel galore gambling has gotten out of control, the concept imported directly from sports with its Prizm and Chrome.

I happen to collect any my pc characters regardless of the set or manufacturer, so I'm not against UD in quite the degree of some others. Yes, parallels are terrible. Well, too many parallels are terrible.

What I got tired of over time was the hockey designs being reused over and over again. The first time--cool, that looks like some SP Authentic, or Black Diamond.

Then I really started looking at the cards, wondering if the design decisions were a) genius, they took highly popular hockey designs as a nod to those collectors who would notice; or b) they have zero creativity and just reused them to be lazy.

As time went on I leaned toward "b".

EDIT: I'll also add that one of my pc characters is Rhino. The last UD set with him in base form (and all the parallel) was Beginnings Vol 2 Ser 2. The first two sets with Topps, specifically the UK releases so far, were Chrome and Sapphire Chrome. They use the exact same pic in their cards as the Beginnings!

Pitiful.