More fakes from China - PMG, Star Rubies, Plat Medallion

[rogermaris]

All listed by the same seller, all appear 100% fake.

The Penny and Kobe Star Rubies are graded by BGS with what appear to be recent serial numbers. Seems recent enough that BGS should have known better.

Also worth noting that this is the first time I've seen a fake PMG. Not sure how long these have been around or what else might be out there...

KOBE 97-8 STAR RUBY: https://www.ebay.com/itm/1997-98-Sky...kAAOSweadbEgzb

PENNY 98-99 STAR RUBY: https://www.ebay.com/itm/1998-99-Sky...QAAOSwAnhbEgn9

PENNY 97-98 PMG: https://www.ebay.com/itm/1997-98-Met...AAAOSwzzVbEgjf

KOBE PLATINUM MEDALLION: https://www.ebay.com/itm/1996-97-Ult...sAAOSwukVbEYzS

[ragingbull]

This is why I am so hesitant in buying these 90s parallels. :doh

[rogermaris]

Just remembered something else -- a few months ago, a member here sent me pictures of two Penny PMGs being offered from Taiwan. At the time I told him that the pictures weren't good enough and that I wasn't familiar enough with the set, but that as far as I knew, PMGS were not being faked. I also urged him to use a lot of caution since the seller was from Taiwan.

I am now nearly certain that both are from the same batch of counterfeits as the one currently listed on ebay. Here are pictures. The case on the left has a real slip, but a fake BGS case. Although the pictures are low res, the fake BGS case, along with a few other details I cross referenced against the high res ebay scan, leads me to believe they are definitely fake. Here are the photos:

[Murphy8276]

Originally Posted by rogermaris

EDIT: In case anyone is wondering, this is the methodology: submit real penny to BGS -- crack real penny out of slab and remove slip -- apply slip to fake slab with fake penny -- resubmit the real penny to BGS and repeat.

Has the population grown suspiciously fast due to this?

[afrobandit]

If the scammer has technology to reproduce PMG, shiuldn't they also have the tech to reproduce a simple silver label?

Also, this is frightening!

[ronaldkosh]

Originally Posted by afrobandit

If the scammer has technology to reproduce PMG, shiuldn't they also have the tech to reproduce a simple silver label?

Also, this is frightening!

+1 to that!

Beckett should start including the exact serial number on the label, e.g. #07/50. Would be a nice added feature irrespective of discouraging the scammers.

[minnesotachill]

I've noticed a lot of questionable 97/98 PMG Championships floating around.

Just saw a Kobe on a Japanese website. The seller was out of Taiwan. Card was very fake.

[Jasondr91]

I can't speak for fake flips, but I'd like to see in hand a fake BGS case. Remember these have the Beckett name etched on the edge.

If someone has recreated this identical case, then we all might as well give up on grading. This stuff is getting real real scary.

[factoryofsadnes]

What's frightening is I can't see why they are fake. What is making you question the cards as being Fake?? Not disagreeing at all i just don't see the difference between real and fake ones, what am I missing. Also cases look identical to others I'm seeing.

[COMCMax]

The fakers making perfect fake slabs is the scariest part of this thread.

[6celtics33]

What are the signs that the slabs are fake?

[Siberian13]

Making fake slabs? This hobby is scary.

[Siberian13]

Originally Posted by 6celtics33

What are the signs that the slabs are fake?

Maybe the perforated edges of the label with the grades? No clue really

[domin824]

Always check the Beckett database to see if card is in population, but that's still no guarantee the card is real

[COMCMax]

Originally Posted by domin824

Always check the Beckett database to see if card is in population, but that's still no guarantee the card is real

In this case it wouldn't do any good unless BGS starts adding numbering on the card description.

[Scottish Punk]

Originally Posted by COMCMax

The fakers making perfect fake slabs is the scariest part of this thread.

Originally Posted by 6celtics33

What are the signs that the slabs are fake?

yes on both accounts. The Kobe flip looks off. I can't see why the case is fake as well. If the fakers are making passable fake BGS slabs, than that is truly a game changing deal. And not it a good way.

[AlabamaSlamma]

One of the most underrated security features of the PSA flip is that the barcode is a legitimate barcode. If you scan it with any QR app, it should return the serial number you see on the flip. While it's not a silver bullet, it's a very valuable piece of the PSA authentication puzzle that a lot of people seem to overlook.

As for the fake slabs, as others have said...not good at all.

[minnesotachill]

The 1997 PMG Championships fakes are pretty easy to spot.

http://buyee.jp/item/yahoo/auction/m255088280


The background pattern always has a different look to them when they are scanned or photographed.

[pennywise]

Originally Posted by rogermaris

All listed by the same seller, all 100% fake.

The Penny and Kobe Star Rubies are graded by BGS with what appear to be recent serial numbers. Seems recent enough that BGS should have known better. [EDIT: Just realized the slabs are fake. Look closely. BGS did not grade these]

Also worth noting that this is the first time I've seen a fake PMG. Not sure how long these have been around or what else might be out there...

KOBE 97-8 STAR RUBY: https://www.ebay.com/itm/1997-98-Sky...kAAOSweadbEgzb

PENNY 98-99 STAR RUBY: https://www.ebay.com/itm/1998-99-Sky...QAAOSwAnhbEgn9

PENNY 97-98 PMG: https://www.ebay.com/itm/1997-98-Met...AAAOSwzzVbEgjf

KOBE PLATINUM MEDALLION: https://www.ebay.com/itm/1996-97-Ult...sAAOSwukVbEYzS

EDIT: As far as the fake BGS cases go, the Penny appears to have a real slip, but a fake case. The Kobe appears to have both a fake slip and fake case.

Not doubting you in the slightest, but can you shed some light on what the red flags are on the cards? I can spot the red flags on the Kobe 97-98 rubies as I'm somewhat familiar with that set; the other sets here, not so much.

Mainly interested in learning about the championship pmgs. What are the telltale signs that these are fakes? Thanks.

[minnesotachill]

For me the easiest way to tell they are fake is the

color tone of the players. fakes seem to have a slightly different color tone to them, especially the players skin tones.

when scanned or photographed, the smaller circle patterns often stand out or appear to be very vibrant and prominent in the fakes.

the real ones, you can see that the larger circle patterns stand out and the smaller circle patterns can usually be seen by tilting the card at a certain angle.

the background on the fakes also seem to have a darker complection to them when photographed, like the Pennies above. The real would have solid vibrant colors in the pattern.

[pennywise]

Originally Posted by minnesotachill

For me the easiest way to tell they are fake is the

color tone of the players. fakes seem to have a slightly different color tone to them, especially the players skin tones.

when scanned or photographed, the smaller circle patterns often stand out or appear to be very vibrant and prominent in the fakes.

the real ones, you can see that the larger circle patterns stand out and the smaller circle patterns can usually be seen by tilting the card at a certain angle.

the background on the fakes also seem to have a darker complection to them when photographed, like the Pennies above. The real would have solid vibrant colors in the pattern.

No disrespect but these points are inconclusive.

Color tone can differ between copies of the same card. I have plenty of duplicates of common cards that have different color tone from card to card.

"the real ones, you can see that the larger circle patterns stand out and the smaller circle patterns can usually be seen by tilting the card at a certain angle."

In the photos posted above (not the eBay listings), the supposed Penny pmg fakes are tilted at an angle and the smaller circles appear to be more prominent in the pattern, supporting your point about real pmgs. In the scan of the other supposed fake pmg (eBay), the larger circles appear more prominently in the pattern, also supporting your point about real pmgs.

With patterns so reactive to lighting and angle, I don't know how we can use this as substantial evidence when inspecting photos/scans, and not physically holding the card in hand.

Your point about the backgrounds appearing darker on fakes also ties into my point about lighting and angle of the card when photographed.

To determine the authenticity of a card through photos, I think we need to be looking at characteristics that are less susceptible to manipulation through lighting and angle, i.e. serial numbering inconsistencies, slight differences in logos/fonts, etc..

If anybody cares to take the time, I think the forum would benefit from a side by side comparison of real next to fake, with circled points to look into when determining the authenticity of future cards that pop up.

Again, not saying these aren't fakes, I'm just trying to learn specifically what makes them fakes, and I haven't read any concrete evidence in this thread yet.

[rogermaris]

Originally Posted by pennywise

Not doubting you in the slightest, but can you shed some light on what the red flags are on the cards?

EDIT: I wound up going into some detail on the next page of this thread.

[rogermaris]

DUPLICATE

[chris_ac]

If these slabs are fake, then pics and a message needs to be sent to as many BGS reps as possible. They look pretty good to me so this is a huge deal to most casual buyers out there. BGS needs to know now. Any large submitters here can get a rep on the phone? I really hope BGS just slabbed fakes instead of fabricated cases. The ramifications of this fraud goes way beyond 90s stuff.

[factoryofsadnes]

So apparently I'm not the only one, can't see any diff between what you are calling fake and what is real.

" I'm afraid to divulge" ??? Why that's what people are asking how do people tell the differnce?? Obvioulsy don't buy from china but that's not the problem it's those who do buy from there and resell here. How are people to protect themselves. Does PSA Beckett catch these??? Someone must be able to help like with Fake Jordan RC's and others. There's usually some way to tell, and posting logos of fakes and none of real ones doesn't help much. What is the "REAL" ones supposed to look like.

I guess a side by side of both in hand and looked at side by side would help.

I remember a story of someone taking a Jordan Graded 10 PSA and making copies of the PSA logo and grade and putting them in Fake Slabs etc... but those you could clearly see were fake......what's scary is these... I for the life of me can't tell "FAKE From REAL"

this seller has other stuff up MJ auto LaBron Auto are all his fake??? cause he's already got bids over 1k