2003-04 Topps Basketball Shadow Set

Twoinar · 08-25-2022, 11:53 AM

Shadow Player List is on Page 12

As a Topps Basketball parallel set collector, I don't collect any particular player, but I do love completing a full set. One of my favorite aspects of putting Topps sets together is getting to see all of the shadow cards of players that were put in Flagship, back when in game photography was the norm. I've been thinking for a while about trying to put together as definitive a list as I could of shadow cards in some of my favorite sets, but could definitely use some help from fellow collectors to get certain details that I can't find.

I don't know if anyone else could use this info, but it would give a player collector a quick reference as to how many times their guy showed up in a particular set. For me, each card is also a fun detective exercise in seeing what information can be gleaned from a particular photo, the same way memorabilia gets game matched to photos.

In thinking about what information can be contained on each card, this is what I've put down and would ask if anyone would change or add anything? Not sure, but from what I can tell, photos were always taken the previous season, so schedules can narrow the dates down to a few in most instances.

Card # ? Player
Teams
Arena
Date of photo
List of Shadow Players on each team and reason why they are identified. ex: (likeness/jersey #/tatoos/roster vs date/etc)

For example, card #1 looks like this:

1Tracy McGrady
Magic vs 76rs
@ TD Waterhouse Center in Orlando
10/29/02
Pat Burke - Orlando #31
Aaron McKie - Philadelphia #8
Todd MacCulloch - Philadelphia (Likeness)

Eric Snow's arm has been photoshopped out.

https://www.basketball-reference.com...210290ORL.html

getty image Editorial #1599996
https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/n...-photo/1599996

I'd like to use this post as a running resource for me to be able to ask questions of other members and refine this 03-04 shadow set to as definitive a point as possible. Some cards have almost no info, and others have so much to find. Any help would be appreciated, and if you have particular card from this 03-04 set you'd be willing to analyze, please do so. I've done the first 50 cards in this set so far, but I already have tons of questions that I'd like to ask to see if I got it right.

mc1 · 08-25-2022, 11:55 AM

Shadow? I think they call these in-background.

Twoinar · 08-25-2022, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mc1

Shadow? I think they call these in-background.

Seems like I've heard shadow card used before, but I'll be happy to call it whatever people feel is most appropriate.

This is card #2

2 Dajuan Wagner
Cavaliers vs Nets
@ Continental Airlines Arena in NJ
12/30/02
Jason Kidd New Jersey #5

https://www.basketball-reference.com...212300NJN.html

GIE#1714771
https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/n...?adppopup=true

Twoinar · 08-25-2022, 12:54 PM

3 Allen Iverson
76rs vs Knicks
@ First Union Center in Philadelphia
11/01/02
Charlie Ward NYK #21
Shandon Anderson NYK (getty image likeness)

https://www.basketball-reference.com...211010PHI.html

getty image Editorial #1615299
https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/n...?adppopup=true

Twoinar · 08-25-2022, 01:17 PM

4 Chris Webber
Magic vs Kings
@TD Waterhouse Centre in Orlando
11/05/02
Peja Stojakovic SAC #16
Doug Christie SAC #13
Grant Hill Magic ORL (Likeness)
Tracy McGrady ORL #1
Pat Burke ORL (shoe match-getty image)

https://www.basketball-reference.com...211050ORL.html

getty image Editorial #1642707
https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/n...?adppopup=true

AbraCalabro · 08-25-2022, 01:34 PM

They are indeed called shadow cards by basically every player collector I know.

Cool way to collect, I do something similar with Electric Court Gold cards, although my thread didn't go very far.

Twoinar · 08-25-2022, 01:50 PM

5 Jason Kidd
Nets vs Hawks
@Continental Airlines Arena in New Jersey
10/30/02
Ira Newble ATL (getty image)

https://www.basketball-reference.com...210300NJN.html

getty image Editorial #1601379
https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/n...?adppopup=true

Archangel1775 · 08-25-2022, 01:52 PM

Seriously, are you talking about the players in the background or their actual shadows from the light source?

I am kidding, the first post I was looking at the shadow of the player....then I saw all the other posts.

Deadshot · 08-25-2022, 06:27 PM

In a lot of cases, these photos were taken from Getty Images. So for the first one, you just type in McGrady McKie and click the Editorial tab. Getty has it labeled as Oct 29, 2002.

https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/n...-photo/1599996

They still don't identify the mystery center, but that gives you a lot more context to get it on your own. You can also view other images from the same game. The only white Sixer other than Todd M to get minutes that game was KVH, and it definitely isn't him.

https://www.basketball-reference.com...210290ORL.html

Deadshot · 08-25-2022, 06:41 PM

Wagner card is 12/30/02

https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/n...?adppopup=true

AI is 11/01/02

https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/n...?adppopup=true

The arm in the Webber card is still a mystery, but the Getty pic shows more

https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/n...?adppopup=true

The JKidd Hawks defender is Ira Newble

https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/n...?adppopup=true

Twoinar · 08-25-2022, 06:54 PM

Thanks Deadshot, that helps a ton. It took what was really difficult and made it easy. I'll try looking up the Getty images on all the next cards I post tomorrow.

I was perusing the rest of this set, and found a fun fact. There is just a single college player that never made it to NBA that shows up as a shadow player card in this 03-04 set. Any guesses, anyone?

oshmeehan · 08-25-2022, 07:22 PM

Would be cool to find a shadow card that has a player in it that doesn't have any official NBA cards made of themselves (i.e. 10-day contract guys or guys that were only on preseason rosters).

Twoinar · 08-25-2022, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oshmeehan

Would be cool to find a shadow card that has a player in it that doesn't have any official NBA cards made of themselves (i.e. 10-day contract guys or guys that were only on preseason rosters).

I've found one from this set that almost fits the bill, but not quite. Soumaila Samake has cards in multiple 00-01 sets, but nothing listed on TCDb other than that single year. He shows up in this 03-04 #9 Tony Parker that I'll post tomorrow. If I find any others, I'll be sure to mention it.

Twoinar · 08-25-2022, 08:36 PM

6 Stephon Marbury
Pheonix vs Seattle
@America West Arena in Pheonix
04/09/02
No shadow players

https://www.basketball-reference.com...204090PHO.html

gettyimage Editorial #557849
https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/n...?adppopup=true

Twoinar · 08-26-2022, 10:02 AM

7 Jermaine O'Neal
Timberwolves vs Pacers Preseason Game
10/25/02
Loren Woods MN (likeness)
Marc Jackson MN (Raised arms, description in getty image)
IN Player, raised arms????

getty image Editorial #1586360
https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/n...-photo/1586360

Twoinar · 08-26-2022, 10:11 AM

8 Antoine Walker
Celtics vs Wizards preseason game
@FleetCenter in Boston
10/25/02
Kwame Brown WA (likeness)
Bryon Russell WA (getty image)
Jared Jeffries WA (getty image)

getty image Editorial #1581179
https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/n...-photo/1581179

Twoinar · 08-26-2022, 10:16 AM

9 Tony Parker
Lakers vs Spurs
@ STAPLES Center in LA
10/29/02
Derek Fisher LA #2
Soumaila Samake LA #0

https://www.basketball-reference.com...210290LAL.html

getty images Editorial #1594885
https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/n...-photo/1594885

Twoinar · 08-26-2022, 10:24 AM

10 Mike Bibby
Lakers vs Kings
@ STAPLES Center in LA
12/25/02
Derek Fisher (likeness)

https://www.basketball-reference.com...212250LAL.html

getty image Editorial #1712953
https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/n...-photo/1712953

Twoinar · 08-26-2022, 11:18 AM

11 Yao Ming
Rockets vs Wizards
@ Compaq Center in Houston
11/22/02
Michael Jordan WSH #23

Has that been hiding in plain sight all these years? Jordan is on a Topps Gold/99!

https://www.basketball-reference.com...211220HOU.html

getty image Editorial #1669718
https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/n...-photo/1669718

Twoinar · 08-26-2022, 11:27 AM

12 Walter McCarty
Lakers vs Celtics
@ STAPLES Center in LA
03/21/03
Kobe Bryant (likeness)

https://www.basketball-reference.com...303210LAL.html

getty image Editorial #1883609
https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/n...?adppopup=true

Twoinar · 08-26-2022, 11:40 AM

13 Steve Nash
Grizzlies vs Mavericks
@ Pyramid Arena in Memphis
10/30/02
Jason Williams MEM #2
Pau Gasol MEM #16

This is the first image I noticed that Photoshop was being used. If you look at the getty image you can see that Raef LaFrentz and Michael Dickersons arms have been removed and a armband placed on Nash's arm. Also, "Booze It Lose It" got taken out of the photo as well above Nash's head.

https://www.basketball-reference.com...210300MEM.html

getty image Editorial #1588337
https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/n...?adppopup=true

Twoinar · 08-26-2022, 11:50 AM

14 Paul Pierce
Celtics vs Timberwolves
@ Target Center in Minneapolis
11/09/02
Rasho Nesterovic #8
Players legs in top of image, Left to Right.........
Troy Hudson MIN (getty Image)
Mark Bryant BOS (getty image)
Vin Baker BOS (getty image)
Walter McCarty BOS (getty image)

https://www.basketball-reference.com...211090MIN.html

getty image Editorial #1645657
https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/n...?adppopup=true

Twoinar · 08-26-2022, 12:21 PM

15 Vince Carter
Raptors vs Pistons preseason
@ Air Canada Centre in Toronto
10/08/22
No Shadow Players

getty image Editorial #1470163
https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/n...?adppopup=true

exclusively_nba · 08-26-2022, 12:36 PM

This is amazing! I don't PC any specific player, but i'm really, really enjoying following along.

Also, I was so confused about how that Walter McCarty card isn't a Kobe card and McCarty is the shadow player in it. It just feels like it's completely focused on Kobe to me. But i'm guessing it was a drawn charge or something and they felt like that picture highlighted his defense?

Anyway, just wanted to tell you to keep up the good work! I genuinely believe that if the designers of these cards saw the effort you're putting into identifying all of this stuff, they would feel honored.

Twoinar · 08-26-2022, 01:59 PM

Thanks, exclusively_nba, I'm having a good time doing it, and it's giving me something fun to do while I'm having to sit at home getting over COVID. I finished this set a few years after it was released, and although I was glad to get it done, it was on to all the others I was trying to complete. Doing this now is allowing me to sort of find a fresh perspective and appreciation for a set I don't look at or handle as much any more because it's completed. If I can actually get it done, and possibly some other sets, I think it would give player collectors a nice reference as well. Deadshot showing me how to use the getty images took what was looking like a giant garbled mass of questions and made it organized and finite. Greatly appreciated, but not surprising.

08-25-2022, 12:54 PM	#4
Twoinar Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Posts: 392	3 Allen Iverson 76rs vs Knicks @ First Union Center in Philadelphia 11/01/02 Charlie Ward NYK #21 Shandon Anderson NYK (getty image likeness) https://www.basketball-reference.com...211010PHI.html getty image Editorial #1615299 https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/n...?adppopup=true Last edited by Twoinar; 08-29-2022 at 06:20 PM.

08-25-2022, 01:34 PM	#6
AbraCalabro Temporarily Suspended Join Date: May 2013 Location: Believe in Saint Abra. Posts: 10,748	They are indeed called shadow cards by basically every player collector I know. Cool way to collect, I do something similar with Electric Court Gold cards, although my thread didn't go very far. __________________ -FREE TRISTAN- LeBron Exquisite /99 - altered & damaged - A master class in corruption. NEVER FORGET: https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1255123

08-25-2022, 01:50 PM	#7
Twoinar Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Posts: 392	5 Jason Kidd Nets vs Hawks @Continental Airlines Arena in New Jersey 10/30/02 Ira Newble ATL (getty image) https://www.basketball-reference.com...210300NJN.html getty image Editorial #1601379 https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/n...?adppopup=true Last edited by Twoinar; 08-29-2022 at 06:25 PM.

08-25-2022, 06:41 PM	#10
Deadshot Member Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 7,694	Wagner card is 12/30/02 https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/n...?adppopup=true AI is 11/01/02 https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/n...?adppopup=true The arm in the Webber card is still a mystery, but the Getty pic shows more https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/n...?adppopup=true The JKidd Hawks defender is Ira Newble https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/n...?adppopup=true __________________ He said he name was “E”, so I introduced myself as “G”...The license plate said “IMNBITZ” or “IMNBISZ” or something. - G YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPuD3WYJ0rkpLqDdyavC2WA

08-25-2022, 06:54 PM	#11
Twoinar Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Posts: 392	Thanks Deadshot, that helps a ton. It took what was really difficult and made it easy. I'll try looking up the Getty images on all the next cards I post tomorrow. I was perusing the rest of this set, and found a fun fact. There is just a single college player that never made it to NBA that shows up as a shadow player card in this 03-04 set. Any guesses, anyone? Last edited by Twoinar; 08-25-2022 at 08:16 PM.

08-25-2022, 11:53 AM	#1
Twoinar Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Posts: 392	2003-04 Topps Basketball Shadow Set Shadow Player List is on Page 12 As a Topps Basketball parallel set collector, I don't collect any particular player, but I do love completing a full set. One of my favorite aspects of putting Topps sets together is getting to see all of the shadow cards of players that were put in Flagship, back when in game photography was the norm. I've been thinking for a while about trying to put together as definitive a list as I could of shadow cards in some of my favorite sets, but could definitely use some help from fellow collectors to get certain details that I can't find. I don't know if anyone else could use this info, but it would give a player collector a quick reference as to how many times their guy showed up in a particular set. For me, each card is also a fun detective exercise in seeing what information can be gleaned from a particular photo, the same way memorabilia gets game matched to photos. In thinking about what information can be contained on each card, this is what I've put down and would ask if anyone would change or add anything? Not sure, but from what I can tell, photos were always taken the previous season, so schedules can narrow the dates down to a few in most instances. Card # ? Player Teams Arena Date of photo List of Shadow Players on each team and reason why they are identified. ex: (likeness/jersey #/tatoos/roster vs date/etc) For example, card #1 looks like this: 1Tracy McGrady Magic vs 76rs @ TD Waterhouse Center in Orlando 10/29/02 Pat Burke - Orlando #31 Aaron McKie - Philadelphia #8 Todd MacCulloch - Philadelphia (Likeness) Eric Snow's arm has been photoshopped out. https://www.basketball-reference.com...210290ORL.html getty image Editorial #1599996 https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/n...-photo/1599996 I'd like to use this post as a running resource for me to be able to ask questions of other members and refine this 03-04 shadow set to as definitive a point as possible. Some cards have almost no info, and others have so much to find. Any help would be appreciated, and if you have particular card from this 03-04 set you'd be willing to analyze, please do so. I've done the first 50 cards in this set so far, but I already have tons of questions that I'd like to ask to see if I got it right. Last edited by Twoinar; 09-24-2022 at 10:11 PM.

08-25-2022, 11:55 AM	#2
mc1 Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 11,208	Shadow? I think they call these in-background. __________________ B.I.D.

08-25-2022, 01:17 PM	#5
Twoinar Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Posts: 392	4 Chris Webber Magic vs Kings @TD Waterhouse Centre in Orlando 11/05/02 Peja Stojakovic SAC #16 Doug Christie SAC #13 Grant Hill Magic ORL (Likeness) Tracy McGrady ORL #1 Pat Burke ORL (shoe match-getty image) https://www.basketball-reference.com...211050ORL.html getty image Editorial #1642707 https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/n...?adppopup=true Last edited by Twoinar; 08-30-2022 at 12:47 PM.

08-25-2022, 01:52 PM	#8
Archangel1775 Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Cali baby! Posts: 21,875	Seriously, are you talking about the players in the background or their actual shadows from the light source? I am kidding, the first post I was looking at the shadow of the player....then I saw all the other posts. __________________ *There are the intangibles that set someone apart from the pack.So the blur isn't your inability to see his greatness, it's merely the inability to measure it.*

08-25-2022, 06:27 PM	#9
Deadshot Member Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 7,694	In a lot of cases, these photos were taken from Getty Images. So for the first one, you just type in McGrady McKie and click the Editorial tab. Getty has it labeled as Oct 29, 2002. https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/n...-photo/1599996 They still don't identify the mystery center, but that gives you a lot more context to get it on your own. You can also view other images from the same game. The only white Sixer other than Todd M to get minutes that game was KVH, and it definitely isn't him. https://www.basketball-reference.com...210290ORL.html __________________ He said he name was “E”, so I introduced myself as “G”...The license plate said “IMNBITZ” or “IMNBISZ” or something. - G YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPuD3WYJ0rkpLqDdyavC2WA

08-25-2022, 07:22 PM	#12
oshmeehan Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 7,157	Would be cool to find a shadow card that has a player in it that doesn't have any official NBA cards made of themselves (i.e. 10-day contract guys or guys that were only on preseason rosters). __________________ FEAR THE DEER

08-25-2022, 08:36 PM	#14
Twoinar Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Posts: 392	6 Stephon Marbury Pheonix vs Seattle @America West Arena in Pheonix 04/09/02 No shadow players https://www.basketball-reference.com...204090PHO.html gettyimage Editorial #557849 https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/n...?adppopup=true Last edited by Twoinar; 08-29-2022 at 06:29 PM.

08-26-2022, 10:02 AM	#15
Twoinar Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Posts: 392	7 Jermaine O'Neal Timberwolves vs Pacers Preseason Game 10/25/02 Loren Woods MN (likeness) Marc Jackson MN (Raised arms, description in getty image) IN Player, raised arms???? getty image Editorial #1586360 https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/n...-photo/1586360 Last edited by Twoinar; 08-29-2022 at 06:31 PM.

08-26-2022, 10:11 AM	#16
Twoinar Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Posts: 392	8 Antoine Walker Celtics vs Wizards preseason game @FleetCenter in Boston 10/25/02 Kwame Brown WA (likeness) Bryon Russell WA (getty image) Jared Jeffries WA (getty image) getty image Editorial #1581179 https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/n...-photo/1581179 Last edited by Twoinar; 08-29-2022 at 06:32 PM.

08-26-2022, 10:16 AM	#17
Twoinar Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Posts: 392	9 Tony Parker Lakers vs Spurs @ STAPLES Center in LA 10/29/02 Derek Fisher LA #2 Soumaila Samake LA #0 https://www.basketball-reference.com...210290LAL.html getty images Editorial #1594885 https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/n...-photo/1594885 Last edited by Twoinar; 08-29-2022 at 06:33 PM.

08-26-2022, 10:24 AM	#18
Twoinar Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Posts: 392	10 Mike Bibby Lakers vs Kings @ STAPLES Center in LA 12/25/02 Derek Fisher (likeness) https://www.basketball-reference.com...212250LAL.html getty image Editorial #1712953 https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/n...-photo/1712953 Last edited by Twoinar; 08-29-2022 at 06:36 PM.

08-26-2022, 11:18 AM	#19
Twoinar Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Posts: 392	11 Yao Ming Rockets vs Wizards @ Compaq Center in Houston 11/22/02 Michael Jordan WSH #23 Has that been hiding in plain sight all these years? Jordan is on a Topps Gold/99! https://www.basketball-reference.com...211220HOU.html getty image Editorial #1669718 https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/n...-photo/1669718 Last edited by Twoinar; 08-29-2022 at 06:37 PM.

08-26-2022, 11:27 AM	#20
Twoinar Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Posts: 392	12 Walter McCarty Lakers vs Celtics @ STAPLES Center in LA 03/21/03 Kobe Bryant (likeness) https://www.basketball-reference.com...303210LAL.html getty image Editorial #1883609 https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/n...?adppopup=true Last edited by Twoinar; 08-29-2022 at 06:39 PM.

08-26-2022, 11:40 AM	#21
Twoinar Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Posts: 392	13 Steve Nash Grizzlies vs Mavericks @ Pyramid Arena in Memphis 10/30/02 Jason Williams MEM #2 Pau Gasol MEM #16 This is the first image I noticed that Photoshop was being used. If you look at the getty image you can see that Raef LaFrentz and Michael Dickersons arms have been removed and a armband placed on Nash's arm. Also, "Booze It Lose It" got taken out of the photo as well above Nash's head. https://www.basketball-reference.com...210300MEM.html getty image Editorial #1588337 https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/n...?adppopup=true Last edited by Twoinar; 08-29-2022 at 06:45 PM.

08-26-2022, 11:50 AM	#22
Twoinar Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Posts: 392	14 Paul Pierce Celtics vs Timberwolves @ Target Center in Minneapolis 11/09/02 Rasho Nesterovic #8 Players legs in top of image, Left to Right......... Troy Hudson MIN (getty Image) Mark Bryant BOS (getty image) Vin Baker BOS (getty image) Walter McCarty BOS (getty image) https://www.basketball-reference.com...211090MIN.html getty image Editorial #1645657 https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/n...?adppopup=true Last edited by Twoinar; 08-29-2022 at 06:56 PM.

08-26-2022, 12:21 PM	#23
Twoinar Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Posts: 392	15 Vince Carter Raptors vs Pistons preseason @ Air Canada Centre in Toronto 10/08/22 No Shadow Players getty image Editorial #1470163 https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/n...?adppopup=true Last edited by Twoinar; 08-29-2022 at 06:58 PM.

08-26-2022, 12:36 PM	#24
exclusively_nba Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 1,631	This is amazing! I don't PC any specific player, but i'm really, really enjoying following along. Also, I was so confused about how that Walter McCarty card isn't a Kobe card and McCarty is the shadow player in it. It just feels like it's completely focused on Kobe to me. But i'm guessing it was a drawn charge or something and they felt like that picture highlighted his defense? Anyway, just wanted to tell you to keep up the good work! I genuinely believe that if the designers of these cards saw the effort you're putting into identifying all of this stuff, they would feel honored. __________________ My "Grading 101" ebook on Amazon: https://tinyurl.com/2bw3phbl

08-26-2022, 01:59 PM	#25
Twoinar Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Posts: 392	Thanks, exclusively_nba, I'm having a good time doing it, and it's giving me something fun to do while I'm having to sit at home getting over COVID. I finished this set a few years after it was released, and although I was glad to get it done, it was on to all the others I was trying to complete. Doing this now is allowing me to sort of find a fresh perspective and appreciation for a set I don't look at or handle as much any more because it's completed. If I can actually get it done, and possibly some other sets, I think it would give player collectors a nice reference as well. Deadshot showing me how to use the getty images took what was looking like a giant garbled mass of questions and made it organized and finite. Greatly appreciated, but not surprising.