PSA changed two of my grades

[msac904]

I wanted to share this and see if this happened to anyone else since PSA changed to their new system. I checked my grades on a sub that had finished yesterday and they listed two cards with 9's. When I selected the pictures of these cards the labels both showed Gem Mint 10. I was pretty happy but confused. When I went back at the end of the night I took another look and the labels now showed 9. So that was pretty frustrating and equally confusing. I spoke to PSA today and was told that the grades were downgraded during the QA checks when a flaw was detected on each card.

I told the rep they're really opening themselves up for some bad PR and asked if they essentially are grading each cards 3 times? The rep was very nice and I really had no choice but to accept this and move on. He told me it doesn't happen often (he said it was a "one-off"...I countered seems like a two-off) but can with the way they do things now by giving the grades or earlier. I also asked if they have ever upgraded a grade... we all know what that answer was lol.

I just thought this was something worth sharing and good to know for the future. Seems like they're making it harder on those who grade... but who the heck knows.

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[Cards and 401K]

When they downgrade the graders should leave a note as to what defect was that caused this.


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[msac904]

Originally Posted by Cards and 401K

When they downgrade the graders should leave a note as to what defect was that caused this.


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I actually asked that question abs was told they're not doing that "yet" but the rep told me he understood my frustration and felt like that will help a little

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[jmatuko]

Sorta along the same lines and curious if anyone has any insight:

I got a submission back today (93 cards) and two of the cards had what I would classify as 'light saran wrap' around the case. In having thousands of cards graded, I've never seen that before.

They were both 9s and to me, appeared to be 10s when I submitted (and yeah, I know, we all think we have 10s lol). Anyway, curious if something like this has happened to anyone else?

[anusinha]

Yeah, they do that all the time, if your sub is spending a lot of time in assembly or QA checks, get ready for a pile of 9s.

[imbluestreak23]

Originally Posted by jmatuko

Sorta along the same lines and curious if anyone has any insight:

I got a submission back today (93 cards) and two of the cards had what I would classify as 'light saran wrap' around the case. In having thousands of cards graded, I've never seen that before.

They were both 9s and to me, appeared to be 10s when I submitted (and yeah, I know, we all think we have 10s lol). Anyway, curious if something like this has happened to anyone else?

I got 4 cards back in saran wrap that I opened on live stream sunday night. One 10, two 9s, and one 8. All kinda thick beefy cases

[prospectorgems]

Have had it happen to me as well, downgraded from a 10 to a 9 in the QA process. Not sure what the point is to releasing grades and then have them potentially changed again.

[SLGSports]

I think there's a common misconception about the QA process. They're not checking the quality of the cards to make sure the grade is right... they're making sure the slab is good, the grade on the slab match the assigned grade, etc. In this case, the person who made the label mistakenly put 10s on them... hence the need for revision.

[msac904]

Originally Posted by SLGSports

I think there's a common misconception about the QA process. They're not checking the quality of the cards to make sure the grade is right... they're making sure the slab is good, the grade on the slab match the assigned grade, etc. In this case, the person who made the label mistakenly put 10s on them... hence the need for revision.

I thought this exact thing but that's not what I was told by the rep. The rep I spoke to from PSA said the grade was changed during a QA check because they noticed the cards had a flaw. I then asked if they essentially grade the grade three times and his reply was "yes" so who knows

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[RufussCkingston]

Originally Posted by SLGSports

In this case, the person who made the label mistakenly put 10s on them... hence the need for revision.

NO WAY..... There is not a person who "makes" the labels, but there is a person who prints the labels. The only way the wrong grade prints out is if the grader puts in the wrong grade to the computer when working on that card. They are not writing it down on a post it for someone else to enter. Each cardsaver has the cert barcode on it, so the grader I imagine scans it, then grades the contents, enters the grade and hit's submit and then moves on to the next card. Now the person slabbing the cards could get them out of order and put the wrong label on a card, like if you have multiple of the same card, so the better grade one might get the worse grade one label and then the opposite. Or like in hockey where a topps and OPC are next to each other and the labels get switched. Had that happen! That one became a PWCC sale (hot potato!)

[RufussCkingston]

Originally Posted by msac904

I thought this exact thing but that's not what I was told by the rep. The rep I spoke to from PSA said the grade was changed during a QA check because they noticed the cards had a flaw. I then asked if they essentially grade the grade three times and his reply was "yes" so who knows

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Three times?? You mean two times, which is actually kinda of mentioned on the site... The QA process is also for checking/concurring on a grade. They don't do a second grading of the raw card.

[Woodsy074]

Originally Posted by RufussCkingston

Three times?? You mean two times, which is actually kinda of mentioned on the site... The QA process is also for checking/concurring on a grade. They don't do a second grading of the raw card.

I can't find the video where PSA announced the changes to the grading process but that was the whole point of getting rid of the the QA1 / QA2 process. They were going to have the card reviewed twice in Grading before it moved to Assembly. Before the second check happened in QA1 and you could see grade changes using the registry trick. So either they changed the tracker and still operating the old way or they are doing three grade checks now.

[prospectorgems]

Originally Posted by Woodsy074

I can't find the video where PSA announced the changes to the grading process but that was the whole point of getting rid of the the QA1 / QA2 process. They were going to have the card reviewed twice in Grading before it moved to Assembly. Before the second check happened in QA1 and you could see grade changes using the registry trick. So either they changed the tracker and still operating the old way or they are doing three grade checks now.

I remember this video as that was the idea but that's obviously not what the actual process is. It is frustrating, I always log all of my grades as soon as they come in and then double check them again once the order ships. I have never seen anyone report that a card is upgraded in the QA process, always receives lower grades.

I found the article that was posted on the PSA site. Clearly they are not following these guidelines.

https://www.psacard.com/articles/art...y-destinations

This shift is reflected in updates to the order tracker. Let’s break it down:

As always, every card entering the PSA grading room is examined by at least two authentication and grading professionals.

After an initial assessment by the first grader, each card is reviewed again to ensure authentication and grading accuracy. This review was previously titled QA1, and it’s now been folded into the Grading stage.

Payment is now requested when grading is completed, and grade reveals are available once payment is received.

QA Checks (formerly QA2) assesses the condition of the holder. Upon passing review, quality assurance is concluded. - This is where it appears they are doing the third QA and per my understanding, they are re-grading the card in the slab which makes no sense.

At this point, the window to select and manage destinations closes, the order moves to Complete, and cards are prepared for shipping.

[msac904]

Originally Posted by prospectorgems

I remember this video as that was the idea but that's obviously not what the actual process is. It is frustrating, I always log all of my grades as soon as they come in and then double check them again once the order ships. I have never seen anyone report that a card is upgraded in the QA process, always receives lower grades.

I found the article that was posted on the PSA site. Clearly they are not following these guidelines.

https://www.psacard.com/articles/art...y-destinations

This shift is reflected in updates to the order tracker. Let’s break it down:

As always, every card entering the PSA grading room is examined by at least two authentication and grading professionals.

After an initial assessment by the first grader, each card is reviewed again to ensure authentication and grading accuracy. This review was previously titled QA1, and it’s now been folded into the Grading stage.

Payment is now requested when grading is completed, and grade reveals are available once payment is received.

QA Checks (formerly QA2) assesses the condition of the holder. Upon passing review, quality assurance is concluded. - This is where it appears they are doing the third QA and per my understanding, they are re-grading the card in the slab which makes no sense.

At this point, the window to select and manage destinations closes, the order moves to Complete, and cards are prepared for shipping.

This is great info.. thank you for sharing. Just seems like there's nothing but downside for anyone sending in cards to be graded. I certainly don't expect them to change a 9 to a 10 which the rep agrees with when I asked him

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[jbettis32]

Originally Posted by prospectorgems

I remember this video as that was the idea but that's obviously not what the actual process is. It is frustrating, I always log all of my grades as soon as they come in and then double check them again once the order ships. I have never seen anyone report that a card is upgraded in the QA process, always receives lower grades.

I found the article that was posted on the PSA site. Clearly they are not following these guidelines.

https://www.psacard.com/articles/art...y-destinations

This shift is reflected in updates to the order tracker. Let’s break it down:

As always, every card entering the PSA grading room is examined by at least two authentication and grading professionals.

After an initial assessment by the first grader, each card is reviewed again to ensure authentication and grading accuracy. This review was previously titled QA1, and it’s now been folded into the Grading stage.

Payment is now requested when grading is completed, and grade reveals are available once payment is received.

QA Checks (formerly QA2) assesses the condition of the holder. Upon passing review, quality assurance is concluded. - This is where it appears they are doing the third QA and per my understanding, they are re-grading the card in the slab which makes no sense.

At this point, the window to select and manage destinations closes, the order moves to Complete, and cards are prepared for shipping.

It is what I had heard from PSA publicly, and I don't believe PSA has excess grading staffs or intentions to grade every single card for more than 2 times. I think there is something abnormal for downgrade the card after the grade had already been issued. Did something happen during encapsulation?

Anyway, there is not any single ex-PSA grader who can tell how the PSA actually does for their grading process? not the process flow was told to the public.

[Archangel1775]

Maybe they just look at the PSA 10's to make sure they dont get bad PR from questionable ones. Sucks though man, I remember my first submission I didn't believe it until I saw it. I hit about 6 PSA 10's from early 80s cards. 1981,1982 and 1986 Football to be exact.

[mc1]

Originally Posted by jbettis32

It is what I had heard from PSA publicly, and I don't believe PSA has excess grading staffs or intentions to grade every single card for more than 2 times. I think there is something abnormal for downgrade the card after the grade had already been issued. Did something happen during encapsulation?

Anyway, there is not any single ex-PSA grader who can tell how the PSA actually does for their grading process? not the process flow was told to the public.

They have to regrade every single card at QA2 in order to catch any damage that could have occurred during encapsulation. They cannot assume or guarantee a grade is correct after a card has been initially slabbed.

[Cards and 401K]

Just hope the dreaded POP report is not in play.


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[jbettis32]

Originally Posted by mc1

They have to regrade every single card at QA2 in order to catch any damage that could have occurred during encapsulation. They cannot assume or guarantee a grade is correct after a card has been initially slabbed.

I don't think they will regrade the card as inspecting all surface, corners, edges, & centering again in QA2, they will probably just inspect if some obvious damage during the encapsulation; therefore, I may suspect PSA may damage OP's card during the encapsulation and have to downgrade it but not informing OP for such reason.

[msac904]

Originally Posted by jbettis32

I don't think they will regrade the card as inspecting all surface, corners, edges, & centering again in QA2, they will probably just inspect if some obvious damage during the encapsulation; therefore, I may suspect PSA may damage OP's card during the encapsulation and have to downgrade it but not informing OP for such reason.

This is a really good point and something I didn't think of. It would be completely unfair to anyone in this situation if that's what happened but the bottom line is we will never ever know that and they'd almost definitely never about to it

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[SleeperCards]

Originally Posted by msac904

Just seems like there's nothing but downside for anyone sending in cards to be graded.

LOL sure, nothing but downside. That's why you sent the cards in for grading right, to get some of that sweet, sweet downside?

[msac904]

Originally Posted by SleeperCards

LOL sure, nothing but downside. That's why you sent the cards in for grading right, to get some of that sweet, sweet downside?

I don't think I wrote that the right way. I meant that change in the process seems like it's nothing but downsize. I wasn't referring to the whole grading process

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[Woodsy074]

Originally Posted by prospectorgems

I remember this video as that was the idea but that's obviously not what the actual process is. It is frustrating, I always log all of my grades as soon as they come in and then double check them again once the order ships. I have never seen anyone report that a card is upgraded in the QA process, always receives lower grades.

I found the article that was posted on the PSA site. Clearly they are not following these guidelines.

https://www.psacard.com/articles/art...y-destinations

This shift is reflected in updates to the order tracker. Let’s break it down:

As always, every card entering the PSA grading room is examined by at least two authentication and grading professionals.

After an initial assessment by the first grader, each card is reviewed again to ensure authentication and grading accuracy. This review was previously titled QA1, and it’s now been folded into the Grading stage.

Payment is now requested when grading is completed, and grade reveals are available once payment is received.

QA Checks (formerly QA2) assesses the condition of the holder. Upon passing review, quality assurance is concluded. - This is where it appears they are doing the third QA and per my understanding, they are re-grading the card in the slab which makes no sense.

At this point, the window to select and manage destinations closes, the order moves to Complete, and cards are prepared for shipping.

Awesome. Thanks for finding.

[johnscards]

Originally Posted by msac904

This is a really good point and something I didn't think of. It would be completely unfair to anyone in this situation if that's what happened but the bottom line is we will never ever know that and they'd almost definitely never about to it

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Do you take multiple high-res scans of all the cards you send in to PSA for grading? This might help you in determining if PSA damaged your card during the grading process, or if your card began with a flaw in raw form and now has the same flaw in graded form. If you had high-res scans pre-grading, you will certainly know if PSA damaged your card.

Originally Posted by msac904

I don't think I wrote that the right way. I meant that change in the process seems like it's nothing but downsize. I wasn't referring to the whole grading process

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Don't you want an honest grade for your card? If the QA check found a flaw that the grader missed, wouldn't you want the PSA 9 it deserves, instead of another inaccurate PSA 10? Hats off to PSA for checking the actual card for flaws a second time, instead of just sending it on down the line. Really shows that they care about getting the grades right.

[prospectorgems]

Originally Posted by johnscards

Do you take multiple high-res scans of all the cards you send in to PSA for grading? This might help you in determining if PSA damaged your card during the grading process, or if your card began with a flaw in raw form and now has the same flaw in graded form. If you had high-res scans pre-grading, you will certainly know if PSA damaged your card.



Don't you want an honest grade for your card? If the QA check found a flaw that the grader missed, wouldn't you want the PSA 9 it deserves, instead of another inaccurate PSA 10? Hats off to PSA for checking the actual card for flaws a second time, instead of just sending it on down the line. Really shows that they care about getting the grades right.

I don't think anyone is arguing the QA checks, more so the steps QA is actually being done. QA is supposed to be finalized during the grading stages, not after the grades are already released.

It could very well be they are doing another QA process after encapsulation however if there is noted damage then PSA should be reaching out to offer compensation for potentially damaging the card. If PSA is doing a full inspection again after cards are encased then PSA should not release the grades until after the QA process is complete.