Panini Blockchain

[ninjacookies]

Originally Posted by Tarheelsfan2012

I think these will eventually be like the pylon prizms back in 2012, which is a one time thing due to the current rookie crop.

I don't know man. If Panini went to the trouble to implement the ledger, I can't see them really stopping with these 1/1's. Especially if they keep pulling 4-6 digits each for the licensed stuff. The blockchain aspect is simply a guise for the physical cards...as those are what everyone's tuned in for.

I'd be a bit more impartial if these were specific 'blockchain' branded cards...instead they're choosing to blur lines and saturate the market on their pinnacle RPA release. I wouldn't exactly be too thrilled if I pulled the 'real' NT Zion Logoman in November, knowing that the dude with the blockchain card could undercut me anytime as they're both stamped 1/1.

[Tarheelsfan2012]

Originally Posted by ninjacookies

I don't know man. If Panini went to the trouble to implement the ledger, I can't see them really stopping with these 1/1's. Especially if they keep pulling 4-6 digits each for the licensed stuff. The blockchain aspect is simply a guise for the physical cards...as those are what everyone's tuned in for.

I'd be a bit more impartial if these were specific 'blockchain' branded cards...instead they're choosing to blur lines and saturate the market on their pinnacle RPA release. I wouldn't exactly be too thrilled if I pulled the 'real' NT Zion Logoman in November, knowing that the dude with the blockchain card could undercut me anytime as they're both stamped 1/1.

lol I wouldn't have a voice if i pulled the real Zion Logoman. It will always sell for more than the blockchain.

[blevins26]

Originally Posted by Tarheelsfan2012

lol I wouldn't have a voice if i pulled the real Zion Logoman. It will always sell for more than the blockchain.

It may sell for more but, to me, that makes sense because it probably cost more to acquire it. One of the unique aspects of these blockchain releases is that anyone can own any player they want so long as they pay the $$$.

[ninjacookies]

Originally Posted by Tarheelsfan2012

lol I wouldn't have a voice if i pulled the real Zion Logoman. It will always sell for more than the blockchain.

Oh definitely...I mean it's not like it still won't be worth a ridiculous amount.


But it's still watering down the desirability of these flagship chase cards. There's a reason why they have Fathers Day and Black Friday packs with specific branding on the cards.

They should withhold the true 1/1's of these players from NT and offer them as a blockchain only release if they're going to use the same moniker.

[blevins26]

One aspect of the blockchain concept that hasn't been discussed:

Long-term storage & preservation of cards, especially autographed cards, is a huge PITA. In fact, I recently pulled all my high-end cards out of the display case and put them away in a closet because the autos looked like they were fading.

Blockchain allows us to have a digital "gallery" of our collection that is a) verifiable and b) doesn't require scanning, cropping, pasting, etc.

Instead of the wooden & glass display case I have hanging on my wall, imagine a 36" x 24" programmable flat screen display. I can make it display any of my blockchain cards using a simple online interface. I can rotate which cards are displayed.

[salthill]

Originally Posted by ninjacookies

But if all they're going to do is utilize blockchain to 'secure' already secured virtual cards and pimp overpriced 1/1's...then that's just gimmicky as gimmicky can get...and there's literally zero reason why they'd need to use blockchain encryption to accomplish it.

This is key. It’s not a blockchain use-case. Just use a secure database on a panini server. Same result.

Use it to house snapshots of physical cards after production and before they get sent out into the wild to protect the integrity of autos and patches? Now we're talking.

Still doesn’t require blockchain.

Originally Posted by Tonic3

Amen!! That is what Blockchain should be used for. Not selling digital versions of cards that don’t even match the physical version.

Again, blockchain isn’t necessary for this. It’s common junk marketing. Slap “blockchain” on it and people bite. In 95% of the crappy use-cases you read about, a secured database is sufficient.
In fact seeing it mentioned is a big red flag when reviewing any product proposals.

Originally Posted by blevins26

One aspect of the blockchain concept that hasn't been discussed:
Long-term storage & preservation of cards, especially autographed cards, is a huge PITA.
...
Blockchain allows us to have a digital "gallery" of our collection that is a) verifiable and b) doesn't require scanning, cropping, pasting, etc.

Again, doesn’t need blockchain.

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by blevins26

One aspect of the blockchain concept that hasn't been discussed:

Long-term storage & preservation of cards, especially autographed cards, is a huge PITA. In fact, I recently pulled all my high-end cards out of the display case and put them away in a closet because the autos looked like they were fading.

Blockchain allows us to have a digital "gallery" of our collection that is a) verifiable and b) doesn't require scanning, cropping, pasting, etc.

Instead of the wooden & glass display case I have hanging on my wall, imagine a 36" x 24" programmable flat screen display. I can make it display any of my blockchain cards using a simple online interface. I can rotate which cards are displayed.

You could do that right now if you wanted. And the blockchain isn't a digital representation of your card. It's just a mock card for your card. It's basically a sell sheet.

[blevins26]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

You could do that right now if you wanted. And the blockchain isn't a digital representation of your card. It's just a mock card for your card. It's basically a sell sheet.

It's different. Anyone can save an image from eBay and use an editing tool to clean it up and present it as it's own.

The blockchain IS storing a digital representation of your card. I don't think people are really understanding this. It's not just a jpeg image of your card. It's Panini's official version of "this is the Daniel Jones 1/1 NT Blockchain RPA" and it was bought by blevins26.

That is LITERALLY the whole point of what they're doing.

I know that this might not catch on. That is a possibility. But there is also a potential future where the entire population owns digital collectibles (art, Fortnite costumes/guns/etc, football cards), some that are placeholders for real world analogues and some that only exist digitally, and the "standard" we use to show ownership is owning the cryptographic keys to the property.

"Not your keys, not your coins" is a common parlance in the crypto world. We could eventually get to "not your keys, not your cards".

[Tonic3]

Originally Posted by blevins26

The blockchain IS storing a digital representation of your card. I don't think people are really understanding this. It's not just a jpeg image of your card. It's Panini's official version of "this is the Daniel Jones 1/1 NT Blockchain RPA" and it was bought by blevins26.

That is LITERALLY the whole point of what they're doing.".

Maybe people are arguing over semantics at this point, but when I think of a “digital representation “ I envision an exact digital copy of the actual physical card. All Panini has done is attach a digital “preview” of the card being purchased. At this point, they could basically sell both separately because one really has nothing to do with the other.

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by blevins26

It's different. Anyone can save an image from eBay and use an editing tool to clean it up and present it as it's own.

The blockchain IS storing a digital representation of your card. I don't think people are really understanding this. It's not just a jpeg image of your card. It's Panini's official version of "this is the Daniel Jones 1/1 NT Blockchain RPA" and it was bought by blevins26.

It's a digital representation of a card that your card will look similar to. In some cases, the patch won't be the same. In all cases, the auto won't be the same.

I could buy a Blockchain card and trim it, change the patch, or clean up a smudged auto. Only Panini would know. Would they out me as a card doctor?

[brianaz29]

Have not been able to get through all the comments, so apologies if this has been brought up. When you buy one of these cards, does that also transfer copyright ownership for the image and usage? Similar to photography if this also transfers ownership of rights to use of the photo itself, there could be some value there. Like if I bought the 1/1 zion could I enforce copyright on Beckett using the image of the card, or anyone else that copy and pastes it for their gain?

[blevins26]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

It's a digital representation of a card that your card will look similar to. In some cases, the patch won't be the same. In all cases, the auto won't be the same.

I could buy a Blockchain card and trim it, change the patch, or clean up a smudged auto. Only Panini would know. Would they out me as a card doctor?

I think your comment and the comment above it get to the heart of the issue here. And it is a consistent issue for Panini. The "concept" has a lot of potential. The execution on Panini's end always seems to lean towards cutting corners (no pun intended).

Like, why not take an exact photo of the card and have that be the digital version? Why do they have to use the wishy-washy verbiage? Honestly, it's the same reason we have things like "guaranteed authentic signature" rather than "A Panini representative witnessed the player listed on the card sign this card".

To me, there are 2 issues here and they are different:

1. The concept of blockchain for verifiable authenticity

2. The way Panini executes the concept that a card is build upon

I think that #1 is really exciting and cutting edge. I just wish that Panini executed it in a more transparent and durable way.

[blevins26]

Originally Posted by brianaz29

Have not been able to get through all the comments, so apologies if this has been brought up. When you buy one of these cards, does that also transfer copyright ownership for the image and usage? Similar to photography if this also transfers ownership of rights to use of the photo itself, there could be some value there. Like if I bought the 1/1 zion could I enforce copyright on Beckett using the image of the card, or anyone else that copy and pastes it for their gain?

From all that I have read, I don't think you do get copyright ownership.

However, this is an interesting angle that I never considered and it's a really great application of blockchain for collectors.

[salthill]

Originally Posted by brianaz29

When you buy one of these cards, does that also transfer copyright ownership for the image and usage?

Nope.

[brianaz29]

That's too bad. If the sale of the digital 1/1 copy was purchasing some level of intellectual property I could see more potential digital value. I'm still not sold on it without that. I "own" digital property in the sense of skins, or video game perks, but those things all offer utility/prestige in a direct application (the game you are playing). Owning an image doesn't really seem to mean much if panini still is going to retain the IP associated with the image.

[toxicboy27]

Originally Posted by ksp6687

Tell em bro.

Funny how some of these haters are the same ones who consistently post things like “can’t sell wax on these forums” and bully newer/ignorant members. I wonder if they have any skin in the game ��

Lol you get it man!

Originally Posted by smalltown

It's very hard to imagine.

In much of the high end Collectible world - art, books, cars etc. - the owners prefer to be anonymous. They bid anonymously. They don't want anyone, other collectors, Governments or individuals, to know what they own and they don't want to be tracked when selling it.

Also, Part of the reason many wealthy people venture into collectibles is to park some of their money in tangible assets rather than have it sitting as ones and zeros in bank computers.

My apologies, I worded that idea of all high end cards in the future being tracked on the blockchain much too strongly in my previous post. To restate: I think it's more likely that some but not all will be recorded that way.

You put up many valid points why tracking high end cards on a blockchain might not be popular. Despite that, I still think collectors of high end cards will ultimately prefer supporting Panini's Blockchain cards though (see in my previous post, the idea about cutting out the middlemen and getting the customer better product/price). It could simply be the path of least resistance that products are distributed this way... Additionally, while people might want anonymity with what they own, perhaps there will be features which allow for it to be maintained.

[JeremyNick]

I don’t think this has been pointed out but none of the cards have the RC logo. I’m sure it was an intentional omission. I just wonder based on the success/failure of these if they will even be considered true RCs down the road.

[Silverandgold]

Originally Posted by Orangejello727

I dont see you posting in the Prizm thread at all about that!!

Difference between an actual card and digital.

[ksp6687]

Originally Posted by JeremyNick

I don’t think this has been pointed out but none of the cards have the RC logo. I’m sure it was an intentional omission. I just wonder based on the success/failure of these if they will even be considered true RCs down the road.

None of the NT logomans in the last few years have had RC logos

[Orangejello727]

Originally Posted by Silverandgold

Difference between an actual card and digital.

So what you're saying here is that there is no wasting money buying physical cards but digital cards is wasting money. ummm ok.... Hold my 1990 Pro set base cards please!!

[Silverandgold]

Originally Posted by Orangejello727

So what you're saying here is that there is no wasting money buying physical cards but digital cards is wasting money. ummm ok.... Hold my 1990 Pro set base cards please!!

Honestly buying 99% of sport cards is wasting money that's why I only pc Nonsport historical cuts. At least your 1990 I can hold and do something with. Maybe even use it as firewood. Rather have that than own a picture of a card. I hope your digital catches on, I can see this generation falling for it.

[Orangejello727]

Originally Posted by Silverandgold

Honestly buying 99% of sport cards is wasting money that's why I only pc Nonsport historical cuts. At least your 1990 I can hold and do something with. Maybe even use it as firewood. Rather have that than own a picture of a card. I hope your digital catches on, I can see this generation falling for it.

That 1800s type thinking has gone out the window long time ago. The fact that you think only physical things have value makes your point moot. What can you hold and do something with when you...
Pay to watch a movie
Pay to go on a roller coaster
Pay to enter a card show
Pay to subscribe to content online

Just because you do not receive a tangible good in exchange for your $$ doesn't mean there is no value to returned service or goods. You have to get over that backwards way of thinking. The first step is to understand different people value different things/goods/attributes. We cant judge what another person finds value in especially when its their finances that are purchasing it.

[Soxfanguy]

Surprised nobody has bit at 123k yet.

Does it sell sub 100k?

[JeremyNick]

Originally Posted by Orangejello727

That 1800s type thinking has gone out the window long time ago. The fact that you think only physical things have value makes your point moot. What can you hold and do something with when you...
Pay to watch a movie
Pay to go on a roller coaster
Pay to enter a card show
Pay to subscribe to content online

Just because you do not receive a tangible good in exchange for your $$ doesn't mean there is no value to returned service or goods. You have to get over that backwards way of thinking. The first step is to understand different people value different things/goods/attributes. We cant judge what another person finds value in especially when its their finances that are purchasing it.

First calling it 1800s thinking is just a poor attempt at an insult.

Secondly nothing you listed are collectibles. People are value based and will make decisions based on those values. Whether intellectual, emotional, spiritual financial or any other value. Your list does not include a single value based collectible. All four are experiences. People will pay for spend money on experiences without tangible returns. People will go to a movie theater or amusement park for enjoyment. They don’t collect movies by going to a movie theater. Sports cards are collectibles and the collectible market has largely always been about tangible assets.

Digital assets are not tangible. I’m not saying that there is not a subset of people that enjoys collecting digital assets, but to call the idea of tangible collectibles an 1800s mindset while making your list of examples is just complete nonsense.

If you like and collect/sell digital cards. Great, I’m happy for you. But stop being a pompous joff and understand that the collectibles market is still and will likely remain a tangible asset market. It’s not likely to change in any significant manner anytime soon. Take for example the Blockchain, which Panini rolled out on the back of highly desirable 1/1 physical cards. Why do you think that was?

[Silverandgold]

Originally Posted by Orangejello727

That 1800s type thinking has gone out the window long time ago. The fact that you think only physical things have value makes your point moot. What can you hold and do something with when you...
Pay to watch a movie
Pay to go on a roller coaster
Pay to enter a card show
Pay to subscribe to content online

Just because you do not receive a tangible good in exchange for your $$ doesn't mean there is no value to returned service or goods. You have to get over that backwards way of thinking. The first step is to understand different people value different things/goods/attributes. We cant judge what another person finds value in especially when its their finances that are purchasing it.

Already talked about that previously. All that is entertainment and things that continually change. It is a photo of a card that never changes and the only thing you can do is look at it.