Heads Up If You Bought the PSA 10 Gary Garter RC from the PWCC Vault: It's Trimmed

3124508 on COMC · 02-11-2021, 08:23 PM

A trimmed PSA 10 1975 Topps Gary Carter RC was only up for a matter of minutes on the pwcc_vault eBay account today before it sold for $16.6k. The problem is that it's a former PSA 8 with a trimmed top edge. It was last sold untrimmed by PWCC and also first sold trimmed by PWCC. Corndog previously outed another trimmed card in the same PSA submission as this one (see here: https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1292970). After doing some digging on these two cards, my guess is that this card was purchased untrimmed by one of the Burge/Koenig/Ho eBay accounts (either cardcontractor, blackdactor, or mcnabb4ever) and trimmed by those same upstanding hobbyists.

Also note that PWCC thinks that this card is deserving of a PSA 11 grade, for whatever that's worth.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1975-Topps-...-/224348522262
https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1927004
https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1642086

hxcmilkshake · 02-11-2021, 09:02 PM

I agree on the 11. All trimmed crap they sell should be an 11. Easier to spot that way. Cmon Brent conservation is ok amiright??

Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk

joe73 · 02-11-2021, 09:12 PM

How are more people not in prison yet?

pip · 02-11-2021, 09:47 PM

It would not be a stretch to suggest that an unusually large number of PSA 10 1975 Topps star cards are, in reality, PSA 11s like the trimmed Gary Carter RC.

MoreToppsPlease · 02-11-2021, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joe73

How are more people not in prison yet?

White-collar privilege. As soon as they go to jail, prices plummet.

ND3 · 02-11-2021, 10:25 PM

Your work is quite impressive OP. Keep doing what you do brotha!

80pc · 02-11-2021, 10:48 PM

How is anyone still buying anything vintage (probably modern too)? I just couldn't do it unless 312 and Corndog verified it. Really wanted to start a vintage collection but I'm sticking to my if I didn't pull it, I don't want it policy.

I wonder if the future will result in live breaks and live on the spot grading. Only way to be truly sure unless automation can figure it out.

pip · 02-11-2021, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 80pc

How is anyone still buying anything vintage (probably modern too)? I just couldn't do it unless 312 and Corndog verified it. Really wanted to start a vintage collection but I'm sticking to my if I didn't pull it, I don't want it policy.

I wonder if the future will result in live breaks and live on the spot grading. Only way to be truly sure unless automation can figure it out.

All the card molesting just makes unopened wax that much more desirable and expensive. 1986 Fleer basketball and 1979-80 OPC hockey, in particular, have skyrocketed in the last year.

80pc · 02-12-2021, 01:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pip

All the card molesting just makes unopened wax that much more desirable and expensive. 1986 Fleer basketball and 1979-80 OPC hockey, in particular, have skyrocketed in the last year.

Definitely. I just repriced all my unopened stuff last night and was stunned by just about everything. I can't imagine where prices would go if 100% awareness of the trimming issue was reached.

Cavaliercards · 02-12-2021, 02:01 AM

Thanks for all the work you do guys.

aro13 · 02-12-2021, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pip

All the card molesting just makes unopened wax that much more desirable and expensive. 1986 Fleer basketball and 1979-80 OPC hockey, in particular, have skyrocketed in the last year.

Yes, because unopened wax is never tampered with.

Especially on the packs and boxes that have a repeatable pattern.

oplum29 · 02-12-2021, 11:47 AM

how do you catch this stuff, it's amazing.

pip · 02-12-2021, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aro13

Yes, because unopened wax is never tampered with.

Especially on the packs and boxes that have a repeatable pattern.

Right you are. Even with BBCE stuff. Buy a sealed case or a box that was designated as coming from one.

wcardguy · 02-12-2021, 12:01 PM

That card is too skinny. They don't look like that.

rngrdanny22 · 02-12-2021, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joe73

How are more people not in prison yet?

I thought you just joined and got back in the hobby after 20+ years...

premium1981 · 02-12-2021, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joe73

How are more people not in prison yet?

Maybe they are already in prison. Lots of gangs run their operations from the inside. Maybe this is the same. Guards could be smuggling in flawed vintage cards and smuggling out perfect gems. It's the perfect crime.

Pink Pussycat · 02-12-2021, 04:41 PM

Thanks for the amazing detective work. You never cease to amaze, and your revelations are critical in keeping things in check.

Eventually, more and more people will take notice, as the vast majority of this altered trash has yet to be uncovered.

joey_peapod · 02-12-2021, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by premium1981

Maybe they are already in prison. Lots of gangs run their operations from the inside. Maybe this is the same. Guards could be smuggling in flawed vintage cards and smuggling out perfect gems. It's the perfect crime.

Because it’s an educated guess/strong opinion. Not fact. Only serial numbered cards can you say are definitive

tconte · 02-12-2021, 08:53 PM

With those top corners I can't believe it got a 10.

patchgenie · 02-12-2021, 08:58 PM

business as usual

auburn35 · 02-12-2021, 09:45 PM

Nice find. Hopefully the buyer comes across this thread.
Keep up the great work.

cking · 02-13-2021, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joey_peapod

Because it’s an educated guess/strong opinion. Not fact. Only serial numbered cards can you say are definitive

cardsforever · 02-13-2021, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cavaliercards

Thanks for all the work you do guys.

Ditto!!!

ken161 · 02-13-2021, 05:19 PM

I was in a local card store a few weekends ago and the owner (a good guy) was talking to a few customers (there's more people in the store than I can ever remember). Anyway, the subject turned to skyrocketing prices and they were all crowing about a recent PSA10 Gretzky rookie that sold for a gazillion dollars. The topic of widespread alteration of graded cards and PSA's ineptitude was not broached. Pretty depressing.

Meanwhile, a box of 2020 football was going for a cool $2K+. If my memory serves, I bought the same brand a year or two ago for something in the $80-$100 range.

The good news is junk wax from the late 80s and early 90s is still affordable. Some pretty cool sets back then

MoreToppsPlease · 02-14-2021, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joey_peapod

Because it’s an educated guess/strong opinion. Not fact. Only serial numbered cards can you say are definitive

LOL.

Don’t forget serial numbers can be added or altered.

02-11-2021, 08:23 PM	#1
3124508 on COMC BODA Join Date: Jun 2016 Posts: 9,401	Heads Up If You Bought the PSA 10 Gary Garter RC from the PWCC Vault: It's Trimmed A trimmed PSA 10 1975 Topps Gary Carter RC was only up for a matter of minutes on the pwcc_vault eBay account today before it sold for $16.6k. The problem is that it's a former PSA 8 with a trimmed top edge. It was last sold untrimmed by PWCC and also first sold trimmed by PWCC. Corndog previously outed another trimmed card in the same PSA submission as this one (see here: https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1292970). After doing some digging on these two cards, my guess is that this card was purchased untrimmed by one of the Burge/Koenig/Ho eBay accounts (either cardcontractor, blackdactor, or mcnabb4ever) and trimmed by those same upstanding hobbyists. Also note that PWCC thinks that this card is deserving of a PSA 11 grade, for whatever that's worth. https://www.ebay.com/itm/1975-Topps-...-/224348522262 https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1927004 https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1642086 __________________ 3124508@protonmail.com The Short Guide to the PWCC Card Trimming & Alteration Fraud Last edited by 3124508 on COMC; 02-11-2021 at 11:19 PM. Reason: Spelling

02-11-2021, 10:25 PM	#6
ND3 Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: At the Brazilian BBQ Posts: 15,490 floridaguy72 nd3	Your work is quite impressive OP. Keep doing what you do brotha! __________________ *Maybe if I stick your head through that window over there you'll get unconfused. Give me the feckkin money. -- Nicky Santoro* myslabs.to/flordiaguy72

02-12-2021, 02:01 AM	#10
Cavaliercards Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Charlottesville, VA Posts: 30,889 cavaliercards	Thanks for all the work you do guys. __________________ Always Buying: Vintage and Tobacco Cards Follow us on Twitter AND Instagram: @Cavaliercards

02-12-2021, 11:47 AM	#12
oplum29 Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Texas Posts: 10,405	how do you catch this stuff, it's amazing. __________________ "got em, got em, need em, got em, got em, need em, got em" - Little Monsters

02-12-2021, 08:53 PM	#19
tconte Member Join Date: May 2017 Location: Marlton, NJ - Less Than an Hour from the Millville Meteor! Posts: 2,043 aconte	With those top corners I can't believe it got a 10. __________________ Numbered cards......this is no longer the way. If you invest in cards, don't forget Cecil Cooper!

02-11-2021, 09:02 PM	#2
hxcmilkshake Member Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Apopka FL Posts: 11,516 hxcmilkshake	I agree on the 11. All trimmed crap they sell should be an 11. Easier to spot that way. Cmon Brent conservation is ok amiright?? Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk

02-11-2021, 09:12 PM	#3
joe73 Banned Join Date: Jan 2021 Location: Miami, Florida Posts: 726	How are more people not in prison yet?

02-11-2021, 09:47 PM	#4
pip Member Join Date: Jul 2019 Location: French underground Posts: 4,009	It would not be a stretch to suggest that an unusually large number of PSA 10 1975 Topps star cards are, in reality, PSA 11s like the trimmed Gary Carter RC.

02-11-2021, 10:48 PM	#7
80pc Member Join Date: Aug 2019 Posts: 698	How is anyone still buying anything vintage (probably modern too)? I just couldn't do it unless 312 and Corndog verified it. Really wanted to start a vintage collection but I'm sticking to my if I didn't pull it, I don't want it policy. I wonder if the future will result in live breaks and live on the spot grading. Only way to be truly sure unless automation can figure it out.

02-12-2021, 12:01 PM	#14
wcardguy Member Join Date: Jan 2020 Posts: 322	That card is too skinny. They don't look like that.

02-12-2021, 04:41 PM	#17
Pink Pussycat Member Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 595	Thanks for the amazing detective work. You never cease to amaze, and your revelations are critical in keeping things in check. Eventually, more and more people will take notice, as the vast majority of this altered trash has yet to be uncovered.

02-12-2021, 08:58 PM	#20
patchgenie Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 6,945 americansportscards	business as usual

02-12-2021, 09:45 PM	#21
auburn35 Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 4,391	Nice find. Hopefully the buyer comes across this thread. Keep up the great work. __________________ Ashley Lelie Rookie Collector, always looking for more.

02-13-2021, 05:19 PM	#24
ken161 Member Join Date: Jun 2019 Posts: 416	I was in a local card store a few weekends ago and the owner (a good guy) was talking to a few customers (there's more people in the store than I can ever remember). Anyway, the subject turned to skyrocketing prices and they were all crowing about a recent PSA10 Gretzky rookie that sold for a gazillion dollars. The topic of widespread alteration of graded cards and PSA's ineptitude was not broached. Pretty depressing. Meanwhile, a box of 2020 football was going for a cool $2K+. If my memory serves, I bought the same brand a year or two ago for something in the $80-$100 range. The good news is junk wax from the late 80s and early 90s is still affordable. Some pretty cool sets back then