1997 Jordan PMG Green 1/10 up on eBay...

[ninjacookies]

Originally Posted by SportsItUpCards

No sense talking about anything else... It's about the card in the OP.

But while we're at it, a cult? If he had so much of a cult following, then why weren't these cards selling for "$15,000"(the Reds that is), and 250K for the green, in 2007? Why all of a sudden did they become "HOT"? Shilling! That's how. So if you weigh a "cult following" with fake sales and hype, then I guess that's a cult. I still don't think all these people want these cards. lol if there are any 90's collectors even left! I'm the only surviving members of collectors from back then, and I knew many many people, from early days in school, to card shops and shows, adults and kids my age from back then, and I'm the only one left. So this crazy cult somewhere that you love referring to, for SPORTSCARDS........ There is no cult. It was fake sales, people pumping these cards and the prices, and passing them as the best thing since the wheel, and sliced bread. Then got Beckett involved to report the "record sales" in the magazines, and BAM........ Fake prices are now cataloged in the "price book" that's been bogus for years!!! It's a waste of chopping down trees.

So yeah, there is no secret cult of Jordan CARD collectors. Believe me. Fake hype, and fake prices. Nothing more. Oh sorry... actually there is more. FAKE counterfeit cards now! Smh

Wait, so are you saying Jordan does not have a huge collector base? I'm a bit confused as to what you're saying here.

It's almost as if you're acting like Jordan is Jerry Stackhouse or something. To say he hasn't and continues to be one of the top sought after person in the collecting world is ridiculous. That's like saying Mickey Mantle has no cult following and his prices have nothing to do with him being one of the most popular players in baseball history.


Additionally, I'm not sure how short your memory was/is...but the Jordan PMG was listed as one of the top 5 Jordan cards in existence every month in the pages of Beckett even back in the late 90's. Along with his 97-98 UD AS Jersey auto. The green pmg jordan never sold for under 2k if it surfaced back then, unless the person who owned it was absolutely clueless as to what they had. And yes, back then I was a HUGE sucker for his UD Sign of the Times gold autos and Inkredible autos (both of which had BECKETT BOOK VALUES of $2.5k+ out the gate). Which is the reason why I was never able to own one back then lol.

[tristan20]

Originally Posted by jj2

And yet they can't fake a MJ rookie card properly.

Unless the fakes are that good, its probably one of he easiest cards to fake.

Its like fake $100 bills, some are bad, some are so good that they even pass bank inspection. Aka Supernotes.

Maybe those fake Jordan haven't been discovered as yet, and its even tougher to track because of the sheer volume. Unlike serial numbered cards.

[SportsItUpCards]

Originally Posted by the27guy

the one good thing here is that at least Beckett is aware of their incorrectly grading the rubies and other ones mentioned earlier on.... Not sure if Psa has caught on yet. But in any case, they know how big of a deal this card is. If they incorrectly grade this card..... That is a mega super huge nail in their coffin.

On this forum in the last month we've seen....

Evidence that both bgs and Psa have graded as authentic cards where the patch had been replaced.

Mj 86 fleer Psa 10s, be proven as fake--- not graded by Psa but put together by forgers. As Tristan said... "Trusting the label"

Beckett actually grade fake 90s inserts.

These are serious issues. The reputation of both companies really feels like it's hanging by a thread. They can't mess this one up.

You actually nailed it. PSA might not be aware of all these fakes being graded by BGS, and might make a mistake with it. That's probably why all of a sudden they're sending a 90's insert to PSA instead of the usual BGS they just love smh

After all, how will they possibly know if it will most likely be graded by a football, or baseball card guy. Even IF it was graded by a basketball guy, what's the odds they know EVERYTHNG about every card/year? Smh. Especially not cards from the 90's. Usually people are collectors of vintage cards, or super modern stuff. Not 90's. So they may get it wrong after all.

Someone needs to contact PSA and let them know this ones coming in, and give them all the background........ Anyone going to take on the job??? Let me know!

[SportsItUpCards]

Originally Posted by ninjacookies

Wait, so are you saying Jordan does not have a huge collector base? I'm a bit confused as to what you're saying here.

It's almost as if you're acting like Jordan is Jerry Stackhouse or something. To say he hasn't and continues to be one of the top sought after person in the collecting world is ridiculous. That's like saying Mickey Mantle has no cult following and his prices have nothing to do with him being one of the most popular players in baseball history.


Additionally, I'm not sure how short your memory was/is...but the Jordan PMG was listed as one of the top 5 Jordan cards in existence every month in the pages of Beckett even back in the late 90's. Along with his 97-98 UD AS Jersey auto. The green pmg jordan never sold for under 2k if it surfaced back then, unless the person who owned it was absolutely clueless as to what they had. And yes, back then I was a HUGE sucker for his UD Sign of the Times gold autos and Inkredible autos (both of which had BECKETT BOOK VALUES of $2.5k+ out the gate). Which is the reason why I was never able to own one back then lol.

I followed Beckett magazine more than religiously back then........

Those prices are nothing compared to the shilling that started in 2007. Where was this "cult" before then??

The prices when they first came out didn't last... because all the way till 2007, a card like the Jordan PMG Red was listed on ebay, and SITTING, for $350 with zero takers. Until of course a few geniuses decided they would ruin the hobby for true collectors, and stock up on cards they thought their story could fly with. And of course they'll start off with Michael Jordan...

So the initial hype and prices paid was understandable at the time, but they didn't last, they went down, down, DOWN............... Just like everything else. But of course it was revived with the shill party of 2007(yes, I just coined that!) The Shill Party of 2007 (REGISTERED TRADEMARK~SportsItUpCards/2014).

Since then everything I said has been proven, and people have been exposed. So that's pretty much how the cookie crumbled. This cult wasn't here before 2007, and surely they're not around NOW! Especially since all this fraud was exposed. Not like there were people camping out sleeping in front of the walmart waiting to buy old stock of 90's cards they had sitting in the back storage room that they forgot about. It was all an illusion, and along the way some were lured in for the ride, and they almost believed that Jordan inserts of the 90's, and eventually 90's inserts in general, were the greatest cards ever. Now of course we fast forward to today, where even though these cards are STILL shilled, people are now edumacated!

[hairyangryfella]

Is there any way one of the threads on this topic can remain a Gio-free zone, so that ACTUAL conversation about the topic can take place?

[Hegotgame15]

@sportsitupcards

In your opinion, is the card real or fake?

[jj2]

Originally Posted by tristan20

Unless the fakes are that good, its probably one of he easiest cards to fake.

Its like fake $100 bills, some are bad, some are so good that they even pass bank inspection. Aka Supernotes.

Maybe those fake Jordan haven't been discovered as yet, and its even tougher to track because of the sheer volume. Unlike serial numbered cards.

Ok, let's assume they can perfectly reproduce a MJ rookie (hypothetically), why then would I waste my time and take the risk of doing a MJ PMG? I can just make 100 MJ rookies and get the same result with a hell of a lot less risk of arousing any suspicion.

[tristan20]

Originally Posted by jj2

Ok, let's assume they can perfectly reproduce a MJ rookie (hypothetically), why then would I waste my time and take the risk of doing a MJ PMG? I can just make 100 MJ rookies and get the same result with a hell of a lot less risk of arousing any suspicion.

Who the hell knows?

Same reason why people don't fake $1 bills.

[thepinoymamba]

Very nice card

[fastnbulbous]

Originally Posted by jj2

Ok, let's assume they can perfectly reproduce a MJ rookie (hypothetically), why then would I waste my time and take the risk of doing a MJ PMG? I can just make 100 MJ rookies and get the same result with a hell of a lot less risk of arousing any suspicion.

Absolutely.

Also, at best, they could only really "fake" ten of these (which would be ridiculous and raise a hell of lot of suspicion).

Something, with a larger print run (ie at least 50) and with much more simple (eg those super raves) would be a better bet to try and fake.

I think it is real. Although i am not paying 50K+ for it, so my opinion doesn't really matter.

[drobfan8]

Originally Posted by SportsItUpCards

I followed Beckett magazine more than religiously back then........

Those prices are nothing compared to the shilling that started in 2007. Where was this "cult" before then??

The prices when they first came out didn't last... because all the way till 2007, a card like the Jordan PMG Red was listed on ebay, and SITTING, for $350 with zero takers. Until of course a few geniuses decided they would ruin the hobby for true collectors, and stock up on cards they thought their story could fly with. And of course they'll start off with Michael Jordan...

So the initial hype and prices paid was understandable at the time, but they didn't last, they went down, down, DOWN............... Just like everything else. But of course it was revived with the shill party of 2007(yes, I just coined that!) The Shill Party of 2007 (REGISTERED TRADEMARK~SportsItUpCards/2014).

Since then everything I said has been proven, and people have been exposed. So that's pretty much how the cookie crumbled. This cult wasn't here before 2007, and surely they're not around NOW! Especially since all this fraud was exposed. Not like there were people camping out sleeping in front of the walmart waiting to buy old stock of 90's cards they had sitting in the back storage room that they forgot about. It was all an illusion, and along the way some were lured in for the ride, and they almost believed that Jordan inserts of the 90's, and eventually 90's inserts in general, were the greatest cards ever. Now of course we fast forward to today, where even though these cards are STILL shilled, people are now edumacated!

Thank you for your wealth of knowledge.

Please tell that to the ebay sellers, then they can drop the prices back to dirt so I can pay the real worth of these Jordan cards.

here is my list.

all Jordan.
every 90s
PMG
Flair Legacy
Credentials
Noyz Boyz
Linchpins

How much you think? I'm happy to pay a little over their "true" value. Sooooo $125 for the lot? Cool. Thank you.

[slobbythegreat]

i enjoy watching people pass their informed comments on whether the card is fake or real with nothing to compare it to. I just took my green out. the first thing i notice that with ANY light around, the card catches the light and also the etching is clear as day. mines sealed in plastic then encased in BGS and the light catches it all the time...this one is flat with no shimmer. Im looking at mine now, in the shadow of a printer under its lit up. Only way to prove its real is another pic under lights

[drobfan8]

Originally Posted by slobbythegreat

i enjoy watching people pass their informed comments on whether the card is fake or real with nothing to compare it to. I just took my green out. the first thing i notice that with ANY light around, the card catches the light and also the etching is clear as day. mines sealed in plastic then encased in BGS and the light catches it all the time...this one is flat with no shimmer. Im looking at mine now, in the shadow of a printer under its lit up. Only way to prove its real is another pic under lights

I originally thought it was fake all day.

but the extra pics make it look real. But gee I'd hate to see fakes of these come out.

[hermanotarjeta]

I'd still rather have jordan retro, haha.

[dengbang]

Originally Posted by slobbythegreat

i enjoy watching people pass their informed comments on whether the card is fake or real with nothing to compare it to. I just took my green out. the first thing i notice that with ANY light around, the card catches the light and also the etching is clear as day. mines sealed in plastic then encased in BGS and the light catches it all the time...this one is flat with no shimmer. Im looking at mine now, in the shadow of a printer under its lit up. Only way to prove its real is another pic under lights

There is an instance where the card will appear dark and not shiny. I noticed this when I used a scanner to scan my pmg's. It's almost as if they were "overexposed". I am not sure of the technical term, but I assume there was too much light and the scanning sensors self corrected that "overexposure". Same thing with refractors, I have a real tough time capturing the refractor effect on certain cards. I've also noticed other sellers with their PMG's in BGS/PSA cases take photos/scans and it came out dark as well with no shine.

[ninjacookies]

If you guys read the entire thread at HK, the copies aren't perfect. The problem, as I stated earlier, was that BGS 'rushes' through all their orders as they make their profit on volume. But after there were 10-20 of the same high profile Jordan cards (which usually never ever show up) showing up at BGS's doorstep at the same time, they lightbulb finally went off in their head and now most (if not all) are getting rejected as non authentic. No matter how good the fakes are, they still won't be perfect 1:1's because of differences in manufacturing process, specific ink dyes, and other variables. It's all a matter of taking your time to really examine authenticity. As others stated, I'd steer clear of any of those cards in question if they were either graded this year or non slabbed.

Older bgs numbers and old bgs labels should experience a premium due to all these shennanigans. I know if I were a collector I'd pay a premium for that peace of mind.

[SportsItUpCards]

Originally Posted by ninjacookies

If you guys read the entire thread at HK, the copies aren't perfect. The problem, as I stated earlier, was that BGS 'rushes' through all their orders as they make their profit on volume. But after there were 10-20 of the same high profile Jordan cards (which usually never ever show up) showing up at BGS's doorstep at the same time, they lightbulb finally went off in their head and now most (if not all) are getting rejected as non authentic. No matter how good the fakes are, they still won't be perfect 1:1's because of differences in manufacturing process, specific ink dyes, and other variables. It's all a matter of taking your time to really examine authenticity. As others stated, I'd steer clear of any of those cards in question if they were either graded this year or non slabbed.

Older bgs numbers and old bgs labels should experience a premium due to all these shennanigans. I know if I were a collector I'd pay a premium for that peace of mind.

Unless the con artists are totally brain dead, all they would need to do is send one or two fake cards along with other random cards, and bam.... they blend in.

Truth is, BGS(Beckett) HAS graded fake cards, and they continue to. Nothing will change. They are not pros at every single card brought to them. Especially if it's a football, or baseball card guy grading the "silly" basketball cards. They should make basketball knowledgeable do basketball cards, and baseball to baseball, and so on. But even then, they're always going to have their strengths in grading, such as vintage, or current day cards... 90's inserts specialist? lol

People will continue to be fooled into buying fake 90's cards, especially the raw ones. As well as fake "graded" ones. Nothing to do about it. If anyone is upset about this, rise up and keep exposing people involved, instead of taking their sides simply because you collect the same stuff they're destroying and hyping. Makes absolutely no sense. If anything, you should be totally against it. Why would you want to pay more for your cards? You think by your cards falsely being worth "this record price" it makes you more special? No... it just makes you dumb, and broke! You shouldn't have to pay more for cards you truly enjoy. Once you've crossed the line of wanting your cards to falsely be worth more just to flex your muscles, then you've entered the road of no return... You're not a collector anymore, you're just someone at that point that wants something to feel special about, and cards unfortunately is what you chose to feel special with. Cards are a fun hobby of the sport you love, period.

Stand up! Don't fool yourself, and stand up to the scum of this hobby, you all know who they are! The morons making fake price guide websites to record these "record high" prices, the morons posting thread after thread with the bogus sales, and pumping these cards like they're the greatest things ever. Meanwhile before 2007(pre shilling), no one cared about them, and didn't bother because there was no potential money to be made. All the "collectors" who buy their dream cards and then pump them and sell them, while pretending they only have one, while they actually have 7 or 8 of them, and then create a fake sale on ebay for $18,250.00!!!!!!!!! OOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHH....... and yes, it's legit! Smh, Then create threads everywhere, and contact beckett to record the bogus prices.

So now you have old collectors paying the price, and new bang wagon collectors getting into it because they think it's the cool thing to do... that they're fit in if they buy these shinny cards. So they either fall for the hype, or because they happen out of freak accident to have one or two of these cards, they protect the scam at all costs. It's a real shame.

[paul06901]

If these were re-created, why can't the PMG green be re-created as well?

[SportsItUpCards]

90's inserts are DEAD...............

You think I'm happy about that? 90's is when I started collecting, in 1992! I'll always have great memories, and love the cards... But will I ever buy any? Very unlikely, accept for the very few small pc's I have going. But even then, I can't be 100% confident in what I'm buying, and that's a real shame. This hobby is still great. But as far as 90's inserts are concerned, NO THANKS!

Originally Posted by paul06901

If these were re-created, why can't the PMG green be re-created as well?

[paul06901]

Blowout member "mouschi" could probably re-create that Jordan PMG #01/10...

I asked him in the past if he would attempt it just to post for informational purposes, and he declined. Maybe someone else can convince him to. It'd be good for him to create then post just to prove that no card is safe anymore in this hobby :-/

[SportsItUpCards]

Originally Posted by paul06901

Blowout member "mouschi" could probably re-create that Jordan PMG #01/10...

I asked him in the past if he would attempt it just to post for informational purposes, and he declined. Maybe someone else can convince him to. It'd be good for him to create then post just to prove that no card is safe anymore in this hobby :-/

That's exactly why the lesson should be, collect what YOU enjoy, and not what others are force feeding down your throat... Forget who they say is "hot" or what cards they say it the best thing since the wheel, and sliced bread. Collect what YOU enjoy, and there won't be any problems.

I like to collect Steve Francis, and Elgin Baylor, and other small PC's. Who is going to fake those?? This hobby is still alive and well... but when it comes to 90's inserts, unfortunately that's no longer so. It has imploded as I always knew was coming. All this time I was expecting this to happen as the con artists got more greedy, and they would try and stretch it, and then it backfired in their face. Soon they won't even be able to get them away for FREE!!!!! lol

Of course I'll get 5 posts to prove me wrong though, and they'll offer xxxxxxxxxxx amount of money for so and so cards smh what else is new.

[ninjacookies]

Originally Posted by paul06901

Blowout member "mouschi" could probably re-create that Jordan PMG #01/10...

I asked him in the past if he would attempt it just to post for informational purposes, and he declined. Maybe someone else can convince him to. It'd be good for him to create then post just to prove that no card is safe anymore in this hobby :-/

Again, every replica has not been perfect. You seem new to the thread. But nobody will be able to create perfect 1:1 copies of cards. The only reason BGS slabbed them is because they're unprofessional (so what's new?) and only give cards one-over glances. But they finally caught on and started rejecting fakes, but only after they slabbed a ton.

Yes, I would love to see a pmg even remotely close to the original. So far all the fakes look horrible. I'd actually love to have a replica just for my own pc, if it looks somewhat the same lol.

[jj2]

Originally Posted by paul06901

Blowout member "mouschi" could probably re-create that Jordan PMG #01/10...

I asked him in the past if he would attempt it just to post for informational purposes, and he declined. Maybe someone else can convince him to. It'd be good for him to create then post just to prove that no card is safe anymore in this hobby :-/

You're assuming he could actually do it.

You've doomed the hobby based on what some guy might be able to do, but as far as anyone knows, has not.

[ninjacookies]

Originally Posted by jj2

You're assuming he could actually do it.

It's the interwebs. He can create unicorns as well.

[ragingbull]

There is a tinge of truth to what SportsItUpCards say.

When I first learned about the Taiwan fakes. I felt the same way. If fakes continue to pump in and people start to notice the over-supply of these "hi-ends," their prices will eventually fall. And those people who spent hundreds and thousands of $$$ on a certain insert would feel like they were cheated.

Although I have a side PC of MJ, I never bought a lot of 90's Jordans (a few, actually) when the hype on them were sky-high. I was able to amass several of my 90's (including Duncans) way before the hype. Whether or not the hype was "man-made," I really don't care. Conspiracy theories can arise and can be exposed but who knows the truth.

But the fakes? The un-cut sheets, cutting them up and putting serial numbers on them? And BGS and PSA grading stuff that they don't even have a clue on? These are really serious issues. And can make or break a hobbyist. First the Jordan XRC, then the Fleer RC, and now the 90's inserts/parallels are now being replicated, so what's next?

I am not saying that the PMG Jordan is a fake. I actually think that it is legit. But the thing is, being vigilant sometimes is just not enough anymore even with a hobby that is supposed to be fun. Just venting..