MUST READ TRIMMING THREAD: COMC- HawkDynasty,cccardfactory,LORDSTANLEY2012|PWCC|ih8ca - Page 72

HarryLime · 10-12-2019, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pspa123

Bottom line, just trimming a card, no crime. Knowingly submitting a trimmed card to a TPG with intent to deceive and then selling it without disclosure, fraud. Selling it in interstate commerce using mail or wires (internet), federal mail/wire fraud.

Plus conspiracy, if multiple people acted in concert, which it would be nearly impossible for that not to happen here but it clearly did with Brent and Gary, nevermind the poor saps at PWCC that didn't even realize they were committing "a big deal."

But they've also got them on the shilling, which was the big thing in the Mastro case. Brent was smart enough to put shilling directions in writing to his minions so slam dunk there.

Arthur

pspa123 · 10-12-2019, 10:46 AM

I would imagine full access to Brent's texts and emails would yield quite a bit of interesting information.

corndog · 10-12-2019, 11:02 AM

***This card is not tied to OCSI or PWCC/Moser that I am aware of. I am putting it here and in the Mantle thread for now as I see no reason to begin a new thread.

PSA Cert #43555577

1958 Topps Bobby Hull #66

Value gain of $60,000.00

This card was purchased by an unknown buyer from Goldin Auctions as a PSA 7 for $18,000.00 on either October 02, 2016 (according to VCP) or November 05, 2016 (according to PSA).
VCP link: https://vintagecardprices.com/card/h...66/74666/PSA/7

Same card was sold by Heritage Auctions as a PSA 8 for $78,000.00 on July 20, 2019.
VCP link: https://vintagecardprices.com/card/h...66/74666/PSA/8

Yellow circles are print, fiber, or chipping identifiers.
Red box identifies trimmed left edge. It is entirely possible that the image pickout (offset or white snow) that is so easily visible on the front of the PSA 7 had been colored over before being regraded. The scanning contrast is much darker in the PSA 8 image, but I don't think that it would diminish the offset enough to actually hide it. The back scans show the red ink transfer (offset) from the card that would have been directly below it when being printed. It is also possible, but not likely, that the white snow is coming from a very scuffed up surface of the holder.

pip · 10-12-2019, 11:17 AM

Was the "pd" on Hull's jersey colored in too or is it just the Heritage scan that disguises it?

gmoney328 · 10-12-2019, 11:27 AM

60 Grand. Jesus.

pspa123 · 10-12-2019, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pip

Was the "pd" on Hull's jersey colored in too or is it just the Heritage scan that disguises it?

Scans show snow very differently depending on the settings.

pip · 10-12-2019, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pspa123

Scans show snow very differently depending on the settings.

Meant to be sarcasm.

pspa123 · 10-12-2019, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pip

Meant to be sarcasm.

Ah. Got it.

pip · 10-12-2019, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pspa123

Ah. Got it.

I have to commend HA for one thing though -- they have the largest scans in the industry. It's much easier to tell when cards are altered.

HarryLime · 10-12-2019, 01:33 PM

Did my post yesterday get viewed before I edited it? I actually hope it did. Great job, corndog. Seriously.

Arthur

superdan49 · 10-12-2019, 01:36 PM

Oh boy, that trimmed '58 Hull PSA 8 currently sits in the PWCC Vault:

This just got more interesting.

3124508 on COMC · 10-12-2019, 01:40 PM

And it has a sticker. Typical.

pip · 10-12-2019, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3124508 on COMC

And it has a sticker. Typical.

LOL..

pspa123 · 10-12-2019, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pip

LOL..

The baseball card equivalent of the trifecta is an altered card with a BS sticker at a shilled price. One stop fraud shopping.

Pink Pussycat · 10-12-2019, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pspa123

The baseball card equivalent of the trifecta is an altered card with a BS sticker at a shilled price. One stop fraud shopping.

Add the obligatory PSA Slab, and you have the perfect "quad-fecta".

Don't forget you need all 4 parties to realize these types of prices...

1. The Card Doctor (Moser and Co.)
2. The TPA (PSA's self-appointed expert grader)
3. The Dealer (PWCC and their Stickering Team)
4. The Shiller (Brent and Betsy's Minions)

Perhaps numbers 3 and 4 are some of the same people... hopefully the FBI can clarify, and put them all out of work.

Pink Pussycat · 10-12-2019, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pspa123

I would imagine full access to Brent's texts and emails would yield quite a bit of interesting information.

Even better would be to see internal texts, emails, phone taps and communications from PSA to its graders and top clients.

Soxfanguy · 10-12-2019, 02:36 PM

The vault was supposed to look nice but PWCC trimmed the budget

signed79 · 10-12-2019, 02:40 PM

That Hull has been recolored. Snow is very common with that card/issue. Will probably shine under a blacklight like a forensics scene.

corndog · 10-12-2019, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by superdan49

Oh boy, that trimmed '58 Hull PSA 8 currently sits in the PWCC Vault:

This just got more interesting.

Ingested?

pspa123 · 10-12-2019, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by signed79

That Hull has been recolored. Snow is very common with that card/issue. Will probably shine under a blacklight like a forensics scene.

I doubt it. I've seen for example 57s go from looking absolutely solid to looking like a winter night in Alaska just by changing the scan settings.

superdan49 · 10-12-2019, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pspa123

I doubt it. I've seen for example 57s go from looking absolutely solid to looking like a winter night in Alaska just by changing the scan settings.

I guess the FBI will be the final arbiter on whether or not it is recolored. It is certainly trimmed though, and PWCC should forward that altered card to the FBI posthaste.

corndog · 10-12-2019, 03:03 PM

***This card is not tied to OCSI or PWCC/Moser that I am aware of. I am putting it here and in the Mantle thread for now as I see no reason to begin a new thread.

***This card was graded just three cards prior (cert #s) to the Hull posted earlier and sold on the same day by Heritage Auctions.

PSA Cert #43555574

1958 Topps Mickey Mantle #150

Value gain of $4,775.00

This card was purchased by VCP masked buyer ID r***t from probstein123 as a PSA 7 for $1,525.00 on July 09, 2018.
VCP link: https://vintagecardprices.com/card/b...=&limit=999999

Same card was sold by Heritage Auctions as a PSA 8 for $6,300.00 on July 20, 2019.
VCP link: https://vintagecardprices.com/card/b...50/65812/PSA/8

Yellow circles are print, fiber, or chipping identifiers.
Red box identifies trimmed left edge.

corndog · 10-12-2019, 03:05 PM

Probstein will have a record of who purchased the Mantle from him and Heritage will know who submitted the altered cards three months ago.

pip · 10-12-2019, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by superdan49

I guess the FBI will be the final arbiter on whether or not it is recolored. It is certainly trimmed though, and PWCC should forward that altered card to the FBI posthaste.

At first I was with pspa123. I thought it was the Heritage scan. But then I adjusted both images in Photoshop, trying to see if I could eliminate the "snow" without overtly airbrushing it myself. I couldn't do it. I'm now leaning towards the card being recolored. In fact, the corners almost looked better when the card was a 7. I think it was trimmed to improve the centering and recolored so that it could pass as a PSA 8. I know of two individuals who do work like this. TripleSS and Moser.

Here's the cards after I manipulated the colors/image quality on both:

signed79 · 10-12-2019, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pspa123

I doubt it. I've seen for example 57s go from looking absolutely solid to looking like a winter night in Alaska just by changing the scan settings.

You doubt it, but I don't.

10-12-2019, 11:02 AM	#1778
corndog BODA Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: From a table in McDonalds, with lovely fake flowers on it. Posts: 18,124	*This card is not tied to OCSI or PWCC/Moser that I am aware of. I am putting it here and in the Mantle thread for now as I see no reason to begin a new thread. PSA Cert #43555577 1958 Topps Bobby Hull #66 Value gain of $60,000.00 This card was purchased by an unknown buyer from Goldin Auctions as a PSA 7 for $18,000.00 on either October 02, 2016 (according to VCP) or November 05, 2016 (according to PSA). VCP link: https://vintagecardprices.com/card/h...66/74666/PSA/7 Same card was sold by Heritage Auctions as a PSA 8 for $78,000.00 on July 20, 2019. VCP link: https://vintagecardprices.com/card/h...66/74666/PSA/8 Yellow circles are print, fiber, or chipping identifiers. Red box identifies trimmed left edge. It is entirely possible that the image pickout (offset or white snow) that is so easily visible on the front of the PSA 7 had been colored over before being regraded. The scanning contrast is much darker in the PSA 8 image, but I don't think that it would diminish the offset enough to actually hide it. The back scans show the red ink transfer (offset) from the card that would have been directly below it when being printed. It is also possible, but not likely, that the white snow is coming from a very scuffed up surface of the holder. __________________ He has no rival, He has no equal.**

10-12-2019, 01:36 PM	#1786
superdan49 BODA Join Date: Mar 2015 Posts: 4,272	Oh boy, that trimmed '58 Hull PSA 8 currently sits in the PWCC Vault: This just got more interesting. __________________ Cardboard Detective Emeritus superdan49@protonmail.com — Anonymous Tip-line

10-12-2019, 01:40 PM	#1787
3124508 on COMC BODA Join Date: Jun 2016 Posts: 9,400	And it has a sticker. Typical. __________________ 3124508@protonmail.com The Short Guide to the PWCC Card Trimming & Alteration Fraud

10-12-2019, 02:36 PM	#1792
Soxfanguy Member Join Date: Aug 2018 Location: White Sox Posts: 15,579 Soxfanguy	The vault was supposed to look nice but PWCC trimmed the budget __________________ ok

10-12-2019, 03:03 PM	#1797
corndog BODA Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: From a table in McDonalds, with lovely fake flowers on it. Posts: 18,124	*This card is not tied to OCSI or PWCC/Moser that I am aware of. I am putting it here and in the Mantle thread for now as I see no reason to begin a new thread. This card was graded just three cards prior (cert #s) to the Hull posted earlier and sold on the same day by Heritage Auctions. PSA Cert #43555574* 1958 Topps Mickey Mantle #150 Value gain of $4,775.00 This card was purchased by VCP masked buyer ID rt* from probstein123 as a PSA 7 for $1,525.00 on July 09, 2018. VCP link: https://vintagecardprices.com/card/b...=&limit=999999 Same card was sold by Heritage Auctions as a PSA 8 for $6,300.00 on July 20, 2019. VCP link: https://vintagecardprices.com/card/b...50/65812/PSA/8 Yellow circles are print, fiber, or chipping identifiers. Red box identifies trimmed left edge. __________________ He has no rival, He has no equal.

10-12-2019, 10:46 AM	#1777
pspa123 Member Join Date: Jun 2017 Posts: 3,740	I would imagine full access to Brent's texts and emails would yield quite a bit of interesting information.

10-12-2019, 11:17 AM	#1779
pip Member Join Date: Jul 2019 Location: French underground Posts: 4,009	Was the "pd" on Hull's jersey colored in too or is it just the Heritage scan that disguises it?

10-12-2019, 11:27 AM	#1780
gmoney328 Member Join Date: Aug 2019 Location: Navarre, Florida Posts: 4,188	60 Grand. Jesus.

10-12-2019, 01:33 PM	#1785
HarryLime Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Spaceball 1 Posts: 4,794	Did my post yesterday get viewed before I edited it? I actually hope it did. Great job, corndog. Seriously. Arthur

10-12-2019, 02:40 PM	#1793
signed79 Member Join Date: May 2019 Location: USA Posts: 513	That Hull has been recolored. Snow is very common with that card/issue. Will probably shine under a blacklight like a forensics scene.

10-12-2019, 03:05 PM	#1798
corndog BODA Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: From a table in McDonalds, with lovely fake flowers on it. Posts: 18,124	Probstein will have a record of who purchased the Mantle from him and Heritage will know who submitted the altered cards three months ago. __________________ He has no rival, He has no equal.