Basketball Cards Trimmed by Heroes of Sport Owner Will Jaimet and Sold via PWCC

[ninjacookies]

Remember, kids.

It's not a hobby anymore.

It's a speculative investment vehicle and 401k retirement alternative.

Pop 1- none graded higher $$ BV No Res.

[AbraCalabro]

Originally Posted by ninjacookies

Remember, kids.

It's not a hobby anymore.

It's a speculative investment vehicle and 401k retirement alternative.

Pop 1- none graded higher $$ BV No Res.

Hey man, the more people getting into cards, the better for the hobby my wallet! Bringing in more collectors investors and dupes into the hobby market is good, buy my 9 step program, designed to help you get started in making money in the hobby market right away! Tune into the talking heads show where we remind you that prices are going up and hype the market up while we sugar coat it with feel good b.s.!!!

EDIT: Eric is a friend.

[ninjacookies]

Originally Posted by AbraCalabro

Hey man, the more people getting into cards, the better for the hobby my wallet! Bringing in more collectors investors and dupes into the hobby market is good, buy my 9 step program, designed to help you get started in making money in the hobby market right away! Tune into the talking heads show where we remind you that prices are going up and hype the market up while we sugar coat it with feel good b.s.!!!

EDIT: Eric is a friend.

#betterthanbitcoin
#askgaryvee

[Mule5]

Incredibly informative and thought provoking. Amazing investigation that makes you really think about how we value sports cards and graded cards in particular. Should be stickied to the top and a must read for anyone new (or recently returning) to the hobby. Thanks for this.

[Wings]

Hobby is in a really sad state. I hate grading and and I hate consignment. Put them together and you get this crap.

[brettmik59]

Originally Posted by Wings

Hobby is in a really sad state. I hate grading and and I hate consignment. Put them together and you get this crap.

Dudes are sleezy and desperate for cash. They can launder their fraudulent goods through PWCC and get top dollar.

[AbraCalabro]

Originally Posted by Wings

Hobby is in a really sad state. I hate grading and and I hate consignment. Put them together and you get this crap.

Hey now, don't leave out the people who are taking advantage of these two things for MAX ROI.

ROImaxxing in 2019.

[superdan49]

Originally Posted by brettmik59

Dudes are sleezy and desperate for cash. They can launder their fraudulent goods through PWCC and get top dollar.

This is the heart of the problem. PWCC and Probstein need to weed out the bad actors consigning to them. And PSA and BGS need to ban the people repeatedly sending them altered cards.

[Deadshot]

Originally Posted by Wings

Hobby is in a really sad state. I hate grading and and I hate consignment. Put them together and you get this crap.

While those two things have taken up a major residence in the hobby, there are a lot of other good things happening at the same time.

I'll put it this way, I love basketball and I don't see myself leaving anytime soon.

[3124508 on COMC]

Originally Posted by Wings

Hobby is in a really sad state. I hate grading and and I hate consignment. Put them together and you get this crap.

Once you know what you’re looking for, it isn’t too difficult to find certain cards that PWCC has sold more trimmed copies of than untrimmed.

It is abundantly obvious that that they audit nothing. If it’s in a slab, it’s good enough for them (a good example of that is the retracted Manning Contenders they were selling).

[AbraCalabro]

Originally Posted by superdan49

This is the heart of the problem. PWCC and Probstein need to weed out the bad actors consigning to them. And PSA and BGS need to ban the people repeatedly sending them altered cards.

Sadly, I don't know how likely that is, because the people doing that are probably among their best customers.

[3124508 on COMC]

Originally Posted by AbraCalabro

Sadly, I don't know how likely that is, because the people doing that are probably among their best customers.

Correct, which means what percentage of their modern cards are trimmed? 50% of first graded appearance sales is where I’m at. I think that’s a fair approximation.

[the27guy]

Originally Posted by superdan49

This is the heart of the problem. PWCC and Probstein need to weed out the bad actors consigning to them. And PSA and BGS need to ban the people repeatedly sending them altered cards.

This is a post that I’ll get behind.

This is a problem amongst nearly all of the big players. All of the grading companies and all of the consignment shops do good things, but the hobby needs their help. We need them to do better as mentioned above. Frankly, we need them to help us not be duped by refusing services to known bad-actors.

Here’s the problem.....

The bad guys will always be able to figure out how to get cards to the graders and the consignors without being known. Think about it. It’s not difficult.

[majestik101]

The NSCC should be extra spicy this year! PSA and Beckett should be consulting their lawyers right now on what canned responses they will shovel to the public if asked about all this stuff. Or maybe they'll just skip this year's proceedings.

[imbluestreak23]

Aw, this mofo touched MJ wrong? I despise him and his existence.

Never molest an MJ

[KhalDrogo]

Here’s what I posted in the other thread.

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

I would like to know this too.

Great work again. I’m wondering what risk PSA, BGS, PWCC, Probstein, etc. are at when this house of cards crumbles. Say the FBI does get involved, and the trimmers go down. These companies have been made aware on countless occasions since the end of 2018 of fraudulent cards. Have they taken the steps necessary to stop these individuals from grading or consigning? It’s very easy for them to identify the culprits. Have they done so? If not, how are these companies not accessories to these crimes? They are helping to perpetuate the fraud of passing these altered cards onto unsuspecting victims.

[BC81]

Great job OP this is very valuable information and eye opening read. I have friends becoming interested in the hobby and now I want to tell them it’s filled with scams. This hopefully doesn’t turn them away.

Your work is helping educate us all and hopefully protect us from more scams.


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[AbraCalabro]

Originally Posted by 3124508 on COMC

Correct, which means what percentage of their modern cards are trimmed? 50% of first graded appearance sales is where I’m at. I think that’s a fair approximation.

I won't contest that, that's probably a good approximation. What do you think the percentage is on some of the older stuff pre-Panini, particularly the high end stuff, or ultra high end.

Originally Posted by the27guy

This is a post that I’ll get behind.

This is a problem amongst nearly all of the big players. All of the grading companies and all of the consignment shops do good things, but the hobby needs their help. We need them to do better as mentioned above. Frankly, we need them to help us not be duped by refusing services to known bad-actors.

Here’s the problem.....

The bad guys will always be able to figure out how to get cards to the graders and the consignors without being known. Think about it. It’s not difficult.

Well, as long as there are members of "the community" supporting them, they've got zero incentive to stop. Their bread and butter is served to them by these parasites.

If any one ever had the balls to support a counterfeiter, they would catch heat, appropriately, but imagine supporting a known fraudster and being able to continue operating with impunity as a "member of the community" in good standing.

There are people on this forum and in "the community" who do just that and yet still, hobbyists maintain good rapport with them. Seems counter productive to me.

[SacGWYNN19]

Originally Posted by theLUCKYshow

Man this research is EXTENSIVE!! I dont even wanna know how much time and energy you put into this OP but its greatly appreciated.

Im sure PWCC will be VERY INTERESTED in this thread.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

That's a good one.

[3124508 on COMC]

Originally Posted by AbraCalabro

I won't contest that, that's probably a good approximation. What do you think the percentage is on some of the older stuff pre-Panini, particularly the high end stuff, or ultra high end.

Every other HoS box has a PSA 10 90s Jordan card. That’s a major red flag. They’re all untraceable and the graded premium is immense.

I’m not a basketball expert, but there’s only so many pre-2000 cards that can be reliably traced, so numbers there are somewhat unknown. But from Lebron onwards, the amount of trimmed cards is just stupid.

Why do you crack a BGS 9.5 Lebron Chrome rookie? To trim it and get a 10, or if you’re a bit lucky, a black label. This actually happens.

Of Black Label cards sold through PWCC, I believe the number trimmed could easily eclipse 75%.

The five cards in this thread are nothing.

[Tony27]

Originally Posted by Wings

Hobby is in a really sad state. I hate grading and and I hate consignment. Put them together and you get this crap.

What about price "guides" ? And those were around before beckett.

[GOATcollector]

Originally Posted by superdan49

This is the heart of the problem. PWCC and Probstein need to weed out the bad actors consigning to them. And PSA and BGS need to ban the people repeatedly sending them altered cards.

This right here is the answer to the problem.

PSA, BGS, SGC, PWCC, Probstein can and should point out and blacklist the perpetrators. They will eventually run out of friends and family to submit for them, especially when they realize the fraud involved. PWCC, Probstein, PSA SGC, BGS do not want the bad publicity or headaches. There is plenty of legitimate business to go around.

[Pathora]

This is just another reason why Chrome/Prizm/Optic/Select cards are great to own, they are pretty free from trimming...it would be pretty obvious to see a trimmed chromium card, plus the stock would be much harder to trim.

This stuff is a disaster, and I feel like PSA/BGS's guideline for newer (last 20 years since this seems to mostly affect big autos and RPA's) card size needs to be altered (pun added). The margin should be much narrower than older cards 99% of the time, hell I can usually see the cards in the holder don't go out anywhere near where they should go.

[frankie350]

Originally Posted by Scottish Punk

This is the real killer. PSA is supposed to be the one catching these so that the trimmers are forced to sell raw and cards are bought with more scrutiny. When they are slabbed into a PSA 10 case, most collectors think they are buying a safe card. Now you can't even trust slabbed cards? How the hell are new collectors ever want to get into the hobby?



Always keep in mind, all this fantastic detective work is done with numbered cards or autos. All those premium PSA 10 rookies from the 80's and 90's, some are undoubtedly trimmed as well. Kind of ironic when the big plus for PSA was they don't grade sheet cut cards, eh?

They do grade hand cut cards:



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[frankie350]

While I despise trimming cards and manipulating the product to "create" a higher value one, I think the grading companies should start to differentiate between hand cut like the card I posted above and NFC = Not Factory Cut.

Cards that are cut from an original uncut sheet of cards are indeed original cards and it is an original printing, just Not Factory Cut. I bring the term from another side of the hobby, the Magic the Gathering community often uses this term to distinguish between a factory cut card inserted in packs, and those cards cut from sheets that are usually given away has prizes and what not.

The NFC qualifier should be added to the PSA/BGS list of terms. The problem here is when an unscrupulous seller wants to pass these NFC cards has original cards pulled from packs. I believe there is a few MJ Jambalayas that are Not Factory Cut in Bgs slabs, one of them was slab upside down if I am not mistaken.