1993 Finest Refractors Print Run?

[Thor34]

I have not seen posted anywhere on the internet what the total card count is for each one of the 1993 Topps Finest basketball Refractors.
Anybody got a clue on this or seen published accounts of the totals?

This subject has been addressed with baseball but I can find no such discussion or math calculations involving this product and the few resulting refractors.
Would be interested in any posting to this topic or postulations.
Thanks.

[ThoseBackPages]

i wouldnt think more then a few thousand of each

[Myerburg311]

nvm..

[Thor34]

Originally Posted by Myerburg311

nvm..

241?
Can this be substantiated anywhere?
Please share how you came about this number?
Thanks.

[Myerburg311]

saw 1993 finest and went to baseball right away.. didn't realize till after I fully read your post you meant basketball

[slum22]

Well there are 429 Jordan Refractors graded by PSA and 319 graded by BGS. Even if there is overlap with crackouts and crosses, etc. I would think we are in the thousands. What percent of his refractors have been graded by this point? 5%, 10%, 25%... Based on the number of cards graded I would say Eric's estimate above is probably close.

Anyway, thanks for posting. I am curious to see if anyone on here has a good idea or can reverse engineer a good estimate. At any rate, this seems likes a good excuse to whip out my MJ Refractor I love this card.

[Thor34]

Steve - Gorgeous. Would love to acquire one myself.
Thanks for posting your scan.

[slum22]

Originally Posted by Thor34

Steve - Gorgeous. Would love to acquire one myself.
Thanks for posting your scan.

Thanks for the kind words. I am glad my scan has led to more. Threads are always better with pictures of cards in them

I have both the 93 and 94 Jordan Refractors and when I was looking for them the 93 was definitely harder to find. I believe the odds in 1993 were supposed to be 1 refractor per hobby box and 2 per jumbo box. I suppose that is the easy part. Estimating case production is probably the challenge now.

[yaoming]

Originally Posted by slum22

Thanks for the kind words. I am glad my scan has led to more. Threads are always better with pictures of cards in them



I have both the 93 and 94 Jordan Refractors and when I was looking for them the 93 was definitely harder to find. I believe the odds in 1993 were supposed to be 1 refractor per hobby box and 2 per jumbo box. I suppose that is the easy part. Estimating case production is probably the challenge now.

The regular hobby 24 pack box odds is 1:9 for refractors, most box has 3

The jumbo box , also has 24 packs, the odd is 1:4, you should get 6 a box


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[ThoseBackPages]

Originally Posted by slum22

Well there are 429 Jordan Refractors graded by PSA and 319 graded by BGS. Even if there is overlap with crackouts and crosses, etc. I would think we are in the thousands. What percent of his refractors have been graded by this point? 5%, 10%, 25%... Based on the number of cards graded I would say Eric's estimate above is probably close.

Anyway, thanks for posting. I am curious to see if anyone on here has a good idea or can reverse engineer a good estimate. At any rate, this seems likes a good excuse to whip out my MJ Refractor I love this card.

only a 9??? burn it!!!!! Send it to me, i will >

[SteveO21]

Originally Posted by slum22

Well there are 429 Jordan Refractors graded by PSA and 319 graded by BGS. Even if there is overlap with crackouts and crosses, etc. I would think we are in the thousands. What percent of his refractors have been graded by this point? 5%, 10%, 25%... Based on the number of cards graded I would say Eric's estimate above is probably close.

Anyway, thanks for posting. I am curious to see if anyone on here has a good idea or can reverse engineer a good estimate. At any rate, this seems likes a good excuse to whip out my MJ Refractor I love this card.

Well then I'll bust out one of MJ's rivals from the 90's


1993-94 FINEST REFRACTORS #11 REGGIE MILLER SP (PSA 9) by SMosley21x, on Flickr

[drobfan8]

You could guess that half have been graded, but maybe more.

I would think there's 1500 - 2000 of them. Maybe as many as 3000, that would seem high though.

[phdbeckett]

My estimate is 1000, maybe a bit more. I have owned and do own a lot of these, and know of several sets built and being built.

[yaoming]

My favorite refractor, the very first and the best looking of them all
For those who started collecting in early 90s, this was the absolute first high end cards ever



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[rdleifriaf]

Love these cards

[duron]

The god, the oak tree

[CastleBeachCards]

Good thing i have the whole set.........

[Brantscard]

I managed a card shop then, and we had maybe 4-5 boxes that had one refractor per pack. This was out of 3-4 dozen boxes we had in stock over a few months. My best guess is at least 2000 of each.

[Thor34]

Great info, thanks.
Has anyone come up with any substantive evidence of print run?
My Google searches have produced very little.

[yaoming]

I don't think that card company ever release info/estimate on print run back in the early 90s.
However, from observation on ebays over lots of years, the 93/94 finest refractor is more rare then 94/95 Jordan finest refractor

[the27guy]

Originally Posted by yaoming

However, from observation on ebays over lots of years, the 93/94 finest refractor is more rare then 94/95 Jordan finest refractor

This I agree with.

I like Phdbeckett's estimate most but admittedly, I don't really know. i was around in those days and never actually saw one in person.

[duron]

Originally Posted by yaoming

I don't think that card company ever release info/estimate on print run back in the early 90s.
However, from observation on ebays over lots of years, the 93/94 finest refractor is more rare then 94/95 Jordan finest refractor

Ya, people here have confirmed a few times that the 94-95 MJ ref was overprinted to a point, more so than other players in the set.

Here's a post from gator naming all the SP's from the first 2 years:

Originally Posted by gatorboymike

Thanks, and yes, that is true. According to Beckett, these are the SPs:

93-94
3. Shaquille O'Neal*
7. Victor Alexander*
10. Don MacLean*
11. Reggie Miller*
12. Sarunas Marcuilionis*
28. Detlef Schrempf*
33. Pooh Richardson*
35. Pervis Ellison*
36. Jeff Malone*
40. Mark Aguirre*
41. Danny Ainge*
47. Anthony Mason*
48. Chris Morris*
49. Todd Day*
53. Muggsy Bogues*
56. Michael Adams*
57. Spud Webb*
64. Gary Grant*
66. Greg Anthony*
74. Clyde Drexler*
78. Kevin Willis*
84. Calbert Cheaney*
89. Horace Grant*
91. Clarence Weatherspoon AF*
105. Scottie Pippen CF*
106. Reggie Miller CF*
107. Mark Price CF*
113. Dennis Rodman MF*
116. Jim Jackson MF*
118. David Robinson MF*
128. Detlef Schrempf PF*
133. Chris Mills*
139. Vin Baker*
140. Gary Payton*
142. Orlando Woolridge*
147. Vernon Maxwell*
155. Wayman Tisdale*
165. Patrick Ewing*
170. Bill Cartwright*
173. Dennis Rodman*
180. Lee Mayberry*
182. Rick Fox*
190. Rex Walters*
204. Lloyd Daniels*
208. Scottie Pippen*
211. Hubert Davis*
212. Chris Webber*
217. Dale Ellis*
218. Harold Miner*

94-95
1. Chris Mullin CY*
2. Anthony Mason CY*
4. Jamal Mashburn CY*
18. Rodney Rogers*
27. Carl Herrera*
38. Rik Smits*
39. Brian Williams*
102. Glen Rice CY*
104. Chris Webber CY*
106. Tim Hardaway CY*
120. Chris Webber*
135. Dan Majerle*
138. Will Perdue*
139. Gheorghe Muresan*
140. Kendall Gill*
143. Willie Anderson*
149. Robert Horry*
150. John Stockton*
153. Elden Campbell CY*
155. Reggie Miller CY*
156. George Lynch*
162. Joe Kleine*
164. Steve Kerr*

[shrevecity]

Originally Posted by Brantscard

I managed a card shop then, and we had maybe 4-5 boxes that had one refractor per pack. This was out of 3-4 dozen boxes we had in stock over a few months. My best guess is at least 2000 of each.

I remember many boxes that did not have any either. We also got some boxes of I believe one of the Wild Card sets that every pack had 12 insert cards and 3 base cards was supposed to be the other way around.

If we could get overall odds on them and the approximate case production you could figure out a ballpark guess, but without that its just a guess. I would say somewhere in the 1500 range is close.

[Jasondr91]

I recently cracked a sealed 93/94 Finest box, hit x3 refractors from it from a x24 pack box.

I remember these originally being basically 1:12 packs early on, or typically x2 per box. Jumbos yielding more.

However, I'm seeing comments made about 94/95 being more plentiful than the original year. I believe this isn't accurate.. 94/95 was created in 2 series, and the print run was short. Just try to find sealed boxes online, any series. Of course the ones with the Kidd, Hill and Jordan are the better boxes. But there are series 1 refractors that are pretty rough to locate. I can believe that the Jordan #45 was double printed in the refractor version. This very thing happened the following year with 95/96, and when Magic Johnson briefly returned. His base refractor was most definitely double printed.

There are some tough 93/94 refractors, and there are some really tough 94/95 ones. I have found far more 93/94 refractors when searching over the various 94/95 refractors.

Print runs? Tough call....some seem x500, x100, x1500

Now......want to find some bizarre refractors? Look for certain checklist versions!

[duron]

Originally Posted by Jasondr91

However, I'm seeing comments made about 94/95 being more plentiful than the original year.

Have people claimed that in other threads? The only thing I've referred to is the MJ specifically, not the overall run.

As for the specific short prints, I believe gatorboy is more or less spot on with his SP list I quoted on the previous page.