$22.5k of Trimmed Harper 2012 Topps Heritage High Autos Sold via PWCC and Probstein

[3124508 on COMC]

Card is POP 5 in PSA 10. At least 4 of the 5 are trimmed. I cannot find the fifth copy. Clearly, gem copies of this card should not exist.

All these cards were in massive PSA subs that had most/all of the cards funneled through PWCC or Probstein. As I continue to post these threads, it will become more evident that the success of PWCC, and to a lesser extent Probstein, is built upon selling altered cards.

Cards appear to originate from the list of usual suspects. One is confirmed to originate from Kevin Burge.

3 are from PWCC. 1 is from Probstein.



#1
Pre: https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...yce-1933378417
Post: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1738486




#2
Pre: https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...igh-1912292454
Post: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1669159




#3
Pre: https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...eal-1875117654
Post: https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...yce-1884594048
Feedback (got1morethanshaq AKA Kevin Burge): https://web.archive.org/web/20190426...0&mPg=8&page=2




#4
Pre: https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...eal-1843257484
Post: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1490145

[ALBASKETBALL]

What the h&*@ is going on

[Wiseguy917]

LMAO keep hugging your slabs guys lolololol. Great work OP as usual!!

[KhalDrogo]

Ooooooh boy. This is a doozy. I’m sure the buyers of these cards will be thrilled to find out they spent thousands on fraudulent material.

Will PWCC or Probstein issue refunds? Will they out the consignee and ban them from consigning again?

PSA is also potentially on the hook for a ton of money here. Good luck guys!

[superdan49]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

Ooooooh boy. This is a doozy. I’m sure the buyers of these cards will be thrilled to find out they spent thousands on fraudulent material.

Will PWCC or Probstein issue refunds? Will they out the consignee and ban them from consigning again?

The current owners should be covered under PSA's grade guarantee. PSA and BGS need to huddle up with PWCC and Probstein to compare names and dates to help end the reign of fraud perpetuated by these individuals.

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by superdan49

The current owners should be covered under PSA's grade guarantee. PSA and BGS need to huddle up with PWCC and Probstein to compare names and dates to help end the reign of fraud perpetuated by these individuals.

Hopefully the owners of these cards see this thread.

[Archangel1775]

Originally Posted by superdan49

The current owners should be covered under PSA's grade guarantee. PSA and BGS need to huddle up with PWCC and Probstein to compare names and dates to help end the reign of fraud perpetuated by these individuals.

Based on a recent response by PWCC here on these boards:

"Policing individuals has proven ineffective because people looking hurt the market will only change their IDs and submit under a different name, or simply sell their assets through other venues which ultimately does not serve the market. "

Haha, this is looking so bad for PWCC and PSA it's nuts!

[Big35Hurt]

Originally Posted by Wiseguy917

LMAO keep hugging your slabs guys lolololol. Great work OP as usual!!

Haha....now this is funny....and true.

[rngrdanny22]

[LSUNatChamps]

I'm sure a lot more people are in on this operation than anyone will ever realize...

[superdan49]

The only thing longer than the list of trimmed cards linked to Kevin Burge is his rap sheet. Even I'm amazed at this particular find, and it takes a lot to shock me with card trimming.

[Mountaineer]

Originally Posted by superdan49

The only thing longer than the list of trimmed cards linked to Kevin Burge is his rap sheet. Even I'm amazed at this particular find, and it takes a lot to shock me with card trimming.

But people can change while the hobby is changing according to PWCC..

[1989FF]

Originally Posted by superdan49

The only thing longer than the list of trimmed cards linked to Kevin Burge is his rap sheet. Even I'm amazed at this particular find, and it takes a lot to shock me with card trimming.

I saw his name and was surprised he's still scamming. Been over 10 years now. Crazy.

[dizzydolse]

Seems like those psa.gem scumbags are the main culprits behind the trimming of high end cards. And it seems like they have been perfecting their scam for many years. But are you sure PWCC and Probstein are really to blame as well just because these high end cards go through their auctions? Couldn't the scum trimmers just be basically laundering their altered product through these guys to cover their tracks a little bit? I'd blame PSA and BGS more than consigners like PWCC and Prob. Maybe they're all to blame, I don't know. The whole thing stinks though, thats for sure.

[3124508 on COMC]

Originally Posted by dizzydolse

Seems like those psa.gem scumbags are the main culprits behind the trimming of high end cards. And it seems like they have been perfecting their scam for many years. But are you sure PWCC and Probstein are really to blame as well just because these high end cards go through their auctions? Couldn't the scum trimmers just be basically laundering their altered product through these guys to cover their tracks a little bit? I'd blame PSA and BGS more than consigners like PWCC and Prob. Maybe they're all to blame, I don't know. The whole thing stinks though, thats for sure.

I don’t disagree. Grading companies are responsible above consignment companies. However, that doesn’t deny anything I stated in the OP.

[dizzydolse]

Originally Posted by 3124508 on COMC

I don’t disagree. Grading companies are responsible above consignment companies. However, that doesn’t deny anything I stated in the OP.

It doesn't make anything you said in the OP untrue except maybe (and I don't know for sure obviously) that those cosigners success were built on selling trimmed/altered cards. That's a very drastic statement because the amount of trimmed high end cards that have gone through them is still an incredibly small percentage of the overall volume in which these guys sell at. You said it yourself in the OP, these altered cards are being "funneled" through them. They are the best in the consignment/ebay game and it would make sense for the actual scammers to try and funnel through them. They could easily be innocent and just work at such high volume and trust the grading companies so much, as most of us do. Although my trust in these companies has taken a serious hit lately with all this great work you guys are doing uncovering this crap.

[SaveMeTheGum]

Originally Posted by dizzydolse

It doesn't make anything you said in the OP untrue except maybe (and I don't know for sure obviously) that those cosigners success were built on selling trimmed/altered cards. That's a very drastic statement because the amount of trimmed high end cards that have gone through them is still an incredibly small percentage of the overall volume in which these guys sell at. You said it yourself in the OP, these altered cards are being "funneled" through them. They are the best in the consignment/ebay game and it would make sense for the actual scammers to try and funnel through them. They could easily be innocent and just work at such high volume and trust the grading companies so much, as most of us do. Although my trust in these companies has taken a serious hit lately with all this great work you guys are doing uncovering this crap.

Only serial numbered and autographs can even be researched. Imagine how many non serial numbered and non autographed cards have slipped through. Pretty much any high graded color bordered card is in question. Target Reds, was-mart blues, etc etc...

[MoreToppsPlease]

Originally Posted by dizzydolse

It doesn't make anything you said in the OP untrue except maybe (and I don't know for sure obviously) that those cosigners success were built on selling trimmed/altered cards. That's a very drastic statement because the amount of trimmed high end cards that have gone through them is still an incredibly small percentage of the overall volume in which these guys sell at. You said it yourself in the OP, these altered cards are being "funneled" through them. They are the best in the consignment/ebay game and it would make sense for the actual scammers to try and funnel through them. They could easily be innocent and just work at such high volume and trust the grading companies so much, as most of us do. Although my trust in these companies has taken a serious hit lately with all this great work you guys are doing uncovering this crap.

A small percentage of what? All cards? Gem-mint or greater? Rookie cards? Trout cards? What percentage are affected?

Obviously a rhetorical question because you or I or anyone else doesn’t know. But it doesn’t look good.

[3124508 on COMC]

Originally Posted by MoreToppsPlease

A small percentage of what? All cards? Gem-mint or greater? Rookie cards? Trout cards? What percentage are affected?

Obviously a rhetorical question because you or I or anyone else doesn’t know. But it doesn’t look good.

80% of PSA 10 copies of this card.

[SaveMeTheGum]

The best thing that PWCC and Probstein can do is to out to individuals/groups that are now causing their name to be dragged through the mud. It would be the best thing they could do for the hobby. Unless they are connected/involved. In which case they should disappear.

[MoreToppsPlease]

Grading companies should distribute packs of grading labels with just a random number 1 to 10 printed on them, with just a .01% chance of pulling a 10. They will surely be a hit.

But seriously, most people no longer care how corrupt and broken the grading process is, it’s not the point and plenty of people are taking advantage of this.

For grading to mean anything, it needs to completely start over. Anything on current or older slabs should be considered not slabbed or altered.

[corndog]

Great job OP and an utter embarrassment for PSA.

Use your tools!
2.5" X 3.5" - It's not rocket science!

[pat10021839]

Originally Posted by corndog

Great job OP and an utter embarrassment for PSA.

Use your tools!
2.5" X 3.5" - It's not rocket science!

Hate to tell you this but the guys who do this walk around the major shows with a small machinist ruler to see if cards can be trimmed and stay at the proper measurements.

[superdan49]

Originally Posted by pat10021839

Hate to tell you this but the guys who do this walk around the major shows with a small machinist ruler to see if cards can be trimmed and stay at the proper measurements.

Not surprised that they do. Any tool can be used for bad or good.

[Bassplayah101]

Originally Posted by pat10021839

Hate to tell you this but the guys who do this walk around the major shows with a small machinist ruler to see if cards can be trimmed and stay at the proper measurements.

The good guys do the same thing, so dont let this be a "tell" or an indication that just because they are measuring cards, they are up to no good.

I carry one to shows with me so I dont buy a trimmed card.

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