Lowest Batting Average for MVP Winner

premium1981 · 08-20-2025, 03:18 PM

With the chatter about who could challenge Ohtani and Judge for the MVP awards something stood out about the guys on their heels. Schwarber in the NL and Raleigh in the AL. Both of them are batting .249 as of this moment in time. We all know that batting average only tells part of the story, but I though it was interesting that if you take away Ohtani (.257 while also pitching 130 inning in 2021) the lowest average for a MVP winner was Roger Maris when he hit 61 in 1961 with a batting average of .269. Just an observation. At the end of the day even before looking at this I feel like the awards belong to Judge and Ohtani.

daveyc1 · 08-20-2025, 03:38 PM

i think it has to be Ohtani and Judge.

boxbuster7 · 08-20-2025, 03:38 PM

why are you obsessed with trashing schwarbers reputation?

premium1981 · 08-20-2025, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boxbuster7

why are you obsessed with trashing schwarbers reputation?

I'm trashing his reputation by stating his batting average? Ummm, ok.

boxbuster7 · 08-20-2025, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by premium1981

I'm trashing his reputation by stating his batting average? Ummm, ok.

you were all over the schwarber thread trying to taint his reputation

why not just accept the fact that he is one of the best power hitters in the league instead of creating a smear campaign?

premium1981 · 08-20-2025, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boxbuster7

you were all over the schwarber thread trying to taint his reputation

why not just accept the fact that he is one of the best power hitters in the league instead of creating a smear campaign?

Are you Kyle Schwarber? You seem to be taking this very personally, and you seem to be incredibly offended by his batting average. I stated my opinion in his HOF thread about how he is no where close to being a HOFer. That hasn't changed. But this thread is about Ohtani and Judge winning the MVP, and if they are truly being challenged like some claim they are, or if they pretty much already have it locked up baring something crazy happening. Who knew it would create a complex in the Schwarber fans out there? Again, his batting average is what it is. That has nothing to do with my opinions or historic MVP winners averages. All facts.

dodgerfanjohn · 08-20-2025, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by premium1981

Are you Kyle Schwarber? You seem to be taking this very personally, and you seem to be incredibly offended by his batting average. I stated my opinion in his HOF thread about how he is no where close to being a HOFer. That hasn't changed. But this thread is about Ohtani and Judge winning the MVP, and if they are truly being challenged like some claim they are, or if they pretty much already have it locked up baring something crazy happening. Who knew it would create a complex in the Schwarber fans out there? Again, his batting average is what it is. That has nothing to do with my opinions or historic MVP winners averages. All facts.

The Raleigh and the Schwarber fans though the Raleigh fans are nicer (albeit just as clueless).

boxbuster7 · 08-20-2025, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by premium1981

Are you Kyle Schwarber? You seem to be taking this very personally, and you seem to be incredibly offended by his batting average. I stated my opinion in his HOF thread about how he is no where close to being a HOFer. That hasn't changed. But this thread is about Ohtani and Judge winning the MVP, and if they are truly being challenged like some claim they are, or if they pretty much already have it locked up baring something crazy happening. Who knew it would create a complex in the Schwarber fans out there? Again, his batting average is what it is. That has nothing to do with my opinions or historic MVP winners averages. All facts.

I am Kyle Schwarber

dodgerfanjohn · 08-20-2025, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boxbuster7

you were all over the schwarber thread trying to taint his reputation

why not just accept the fact that he is one of the best power hitters in the league instead of creating a smear campaign?

He is one of the best. He is just not the best. Ohtani has an OPS+ 25 points higher than Schwarber, a WAR thats a point and a half higher and a gap thats likely to widen the more Ohtani pitches, and Schwarber has an OPS this season that is lower than Ohtani's CAREER OPS.

Its closed and shut absent some unforeseen abberation.

boxbuster7 · 08-20-2025, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dodgerfanjohn

He is one of the best. He is just not the best. Ohtani has an OPS+ 25 points higher than Schwarber, a WAR thats a point and a half higher and a gap thats likely to widen the more Ohtani pitches, and Schwarber has an OPS this season that is lower than Ohtani's CAREER OPS.

Its closed and shut absent some unforeseen abberation.

I'm not comparing schwarber to the greatest player of all time...

- not once did I say the words Shohei or Ohtani or Shohei Ohtani

NYBBFAN · 08-20-2025, 04:07 PM

Verlander.

dodgerfanjohn · 08-20-2025, 04:13 PM

I don't have an issue with a lower batting average winning MVP if the player is still productive (as was Maris and Ohtani in the exceptions stated).

What I have a problem with is a guy with a low batting average being prematurely declared MVP when there is objectively a better and more productive player in the same league. I stated so in the Cal Raleigh thread...he isnt at all as good as Aaron Judge this year. Same applies to Schwarber....he isn't as good as Ohtani. That should be the end of the discussion at this moment. Of course injuries, slumps, and other factors can change things. But fanboys tend to take stuff too far.....

Archangel1775 · 08-20-2025, 04:46 PM

Unless Schwarber starts pitching and Raleigh hits the .300 mark by the end of the season, I can't see the MVP awards going to anyone else.

Bosoxfan5990 · 08-20-2025, 05:29 PM

I thought batting average was an outdated stat?

Rooftop · 08-20-2025, 06:46 PM

WTF cares..

boxbuster7 · 08-20-2025, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rooftop

WTF cares..

I concur

bulljh · 08-20-2025, 06:59 PM

I never thought I’d see a starting pitcher win the Cy Young with 10 wins, but here we are

johnlocke36 · 08-20-2025, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bulljh

I never thought I’d see a starting pitcher win the Cy Young with 10 wins, but here we are

DeGrom won 11 games 10 games and 4 games over a 3 year span and won 2 Cy Youngs and finished 3rd (only 12 starts)

rudan007 · 08-20-2025, 08:50 PM

Schwarber is a no(unless he bumps up the average 25-30 pts and/or Ohtani slumps)
Raleigh is possible (especially considering his primary position and if Judge misses playing time)

Imnottheonly · 08-20-2025, 10:04 PM

It’s 2025 and we’re talking batting average. Give me the lowest OPS for a non-pitcher in their MVP season then we can talk about the “historical” line. Batting average is not the measure it once was.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

jackwesq · 08-20-2025, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imnottheonly

It’s 2025 and we’re talking batting average. Give me the lowest OPS for a non-pitcher in their MVP season then we can talk about the “historical” line. Batting average is not the measure it once was.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I've always maintained that virtually any single season record can be broken, but this might be the exception.

In 1944, Marty Marion won the NL MVP with a .686 OPS; .324 OBP and .362 SLG.

I can't see a non-pitcher winning the MVP with an OPS lower than .686.

And some other low seasons ...

1976 Thurman Munson .769 OPS
1960 Dick Groat .765 OPS
1959 Nellie Fox .769 OPS
1931 Frankie Frisch .764 OPS
1925 Roger Peckinpaugh .746 OPS
1914 Johnny Evers .728 OPS

In more recent years, Dustin Pedroia won the 2008 AL MVP with a .869 OPS and Ichiro Suzuki won the 2001 AL MVP with a .838 OPS.

rwperu34 · 08-20-2025, 11:07 PM

Within 1 WAR of Aaron Judge;

Cal Raleigh

Within 1 WAR of Ohtani;

PCA, Trea Turner

I'd say Raleigh has an outside shot if he stays hot and Judge cools off. I'd say it's pretty unlikely anybody in the NL catches Ohtani if he stays healthy.

The most intesting thing that came from this WAR check is the D'backs have 3 of the top 12 right now (Perdomo, Carroll, Marte).

Bosoxfan5990 · 08-21-2025, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rwperu34

Within 1 WAR of Aaron Judge;

Cal Raleigh

Within 1 WAR of Ohtani;

PCA, Trea Turner

I'd say Raleigh has an outside shot if he stays hot and Judge cools off. I'd say it's pretty unlikely anybody in the NL catches Ohtani if he stays healthy.

The most intesting thing that came from this WAR check is the D'backs have 3 of the top 12 right now (Perdomo, Carroll, Marte).

Funny they aren’t in the playoffs.

rwperu34 · 08-21-2025, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bosoxfan5990

Funny they aren’t in the playoffs.

Funny? Sad? It's a fine line.

fabiani12333 · 08-21-2025, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rwperu34

Within 1 WAR of Aaron Judge;

Cal Raleigh

I'd say Raleigh has an outside shot if he stays hot and Judge cools off.

Judge has already cooled off -- .190/.350/.397 and 4 HR in his last 19 games (since July 13th). And he's now a full-time DH as a result of his arm injury. So that puts downward pressure on his value.

Problem for Raleigh is hasn't been a whole lot better during that time -- .217/.286/.470 with 9 HR in his last 29 games (since July 18th).

08-20-2025, 03:18 PM	#1
premium1981 Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: North Carolina Posts: 11,096	Lowest Batting Average for MVP Winner With the chatter about who could challenge Ohtani and Judge for the MVP awards something stood out about the guys on their heels. Schwarber in the NL and Raleigh in the AL. Both of them are batting .249 as of this moment in time. We all know that batting average only tells part of the story, but I though it was interesting that if you take away Ohtani (.257 while also pitching 130 inning in 2021) the lowest average for a MVP winner was Roger Maris when he hit 61 in 1961 with a batting average of .269. Just an observation. At the end of the day even before looking at this I feel like the awards belong to Judge and Ohtani.

08-20-2025, 03:38 PM	#3
boxbuster7 Member Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 12,171 boxbuster777	why are you obsessed with trashing schwarbers reputation? __________________ Psa 9 > psa 10

08-20-2025, 04:07 PM	#11
NYBBFAN Member Join Date: Apr 2019 Posts: 4,845	Verlander. __________________ https://gallery.us175.com/ https://inv.us175.com/wantlist

08-20-2025, 04:46 PM	#13
Archangel1775 Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Cali baby! Posts: 21,761	Unless Schwarber starts pitching and Raleigh hits the .300 mark by the end of the season, I can't see the MVP awards going to anyone else. __________________ *There are the intangibles that set someone apart from the pack.So the blur isn't your inability to see his greatness, it's merely the inability to measure it.*

08-20-2025, 05:29 PM	#14
Bosoxfan5990 Member Join Date: Oct 2020 Location: MA Posts: 13,217 rossisportscards	I thought batting average was an outdated stat? __________________ X & IG: rossisportcards. Bethel Johnson & A. Vinatieri. "A Goldin Shower of sorrow and regret." -ninjacookies (11/25/24) "I'm back." -Bosoxfan5990 (2/8/25)

08-20-2025, 03:38 PM	#2
daveyc1 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: maine Posts: 1,807	i think it has to be Ohtani and Judge.

08-20-2025, 04:13 PM	#12
dodgerfanjohn Member Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Torrance, CA Posts: 5,129 sternroolz	I don't have an issue with a lower batting average winning MVP if the player is still productive (as was Maris and Ohtani in the exceptions stated). What I have a problem with is a guy with a low batting average being prematurely declared MVP when there is objectively a better and more productive player in the same league. I stated so in the Cal Raleigh thread...he isnt at all as good as Aaron Judge this year. Same applies to Schwarber....he isn't as good as Ohtani. That should be the end of the discussion at this moment. Of course injuries, slumps, and other factors can change things. But fanboys tend to take stuff too far.....

08-20-2025, 06:46 PM	#15
Rooftop Member Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 3,480	WTF cares..

08-20-2025, 06:59 PM	#17
bulljh Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Sparks, NV Posts: 6,249 bulljh	I never thought I’d see a starting pitcher win the Cy Young with 10 wins, but here we are Last edited by bulljh; 08-20-2025 at 07:16 PM.

08-20-2025, 08:50 PM	#19
rudan007 Member Join Date: May 2024 Posts: 146	Schwarber is a no(unless he bumps up the average 25-30 pts and/or Ohtani slumps) Raleigh is possible (especially considering his primary position and if Judge misses playing time)

08-20-2025, 10:04 PM	#20
Imnottheonly Member Join Date: Sep 2019 Posts: 249	It’s 2025 and we’re talking batting average. Give me the lowest OPS for a non-pitcher in their MVP season then we can talk about the “historical” line. Batting average is not the measure it once was. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

08-20-2025, 11:07 PM	#22
rwperu34 Member Join Date: Feb 2017 Location: Tempe, AZ Posts: 8,272	Within 1 WAR of Aaron Judge; Cal Raleigh Within 1 WAR of Ohtani; PCA, Trea Turner I'd say Raleigh has an outside shot if he stays hot and Judge cools off. I'd say it's pretty unlikely anybody in the NL catches Ohtani if he stays healthy. The most intesting thing that came from this WAR check is the D'backs have 3 of the top 12 right now (Perdomo, Carroll, Marte). __________________ Me: Did I win? Gixen: Yes. You won. Now you're broke.