Panini Black = death blow to Panini! (a few gripes as well)

[jameshues]

Originally Posted by thebeatlephil97

Look at the quality control on this monta Ellis black auto.

10/11 Elite Black Box Auto Flag Monta Ellis 56/99 | eBay

Hahahahhaha.

I've seen un upside-down manufactured logoman too

[thor_rider08]

Originally Posted by jameshues

I agree with everything you said except the criticism on timeless treasures. Getting autos on leather is NOT a sticker auto. It's not on card either, but its much closer to on-card than it is a sticker auto.

Just wanted to clarify that I tore one of these apart on blog and it is a sticker auto in the sense that they are not on card... In the same respect my point was moving to the fact that they seem to avoid anything on card....
Look at all of the manupatches that are in dominion, NT, Black Box Elite.

Now dont get me wrong if a player signs a game worn patch i am ok with that even though it is not an on card auto... now if they sign a random piece of material and then stick it on the card what is that called? (#@#@#@#@) I have seen the stickers they use for the autos and they come on sheets the player must sign. The same goes for these... just like a stamp peel and stick.
On card auto means the player took a pen/sharpie directly to the card.

This is the point... Just like I do not feel last years NT RPAS of D. Collison were true rookie on card autos..
Thought there was some clarity needed.

[cruiserdaddy7]

Boy its nice to see people catching on. Saves me a TON of time coming on here and being the first to bash their products. Nice post.

[UltimateDeron]

My normal search for newly listed logomans on ebay is a bit crowded these days. Thanks Paweeni

[mightbe]

I think perhaps thor meant that having autographs mostly on stickers yet written directly on manufactured patches is stupid. Why waste the opportunity of getting a directly written auto on some manufactured crap than on an actual game used or even simply an autographed card?

[UltimateDeron]

Originally Posted by mightbe

I think perhaps thor meant that having autographs mostly on stickers yet written directly on manufactured patches is stupid. Why waste the opportunity of getting a directly written auto on some manufactured crap than on an actual game used or even simply an autographed card?

Excellent point. All of the manufactured patch autos could actually be on card autos or on game used patch autos if Panini was smart, which they arent. I love how Tracy Hackler says that the reason they keep making the manufactured patch autos is that collectors like them. Who are these collectors!? lol...

[mightbe]

Originally Posted by UltimateDeron

Excellent point. All of the manufactured patch autos could actually be on card autos or on game used patch autos if Panini was smart, which they arent. I love how Tracy Hackler says that the reason they keep making the manufactured patch autos is that collectors like them. Who are these collectors!? lol...

I think when they show photos of players doing a signing they sometimes do show the player autographing manufactured patch cards.

It wouldn't surprise me if they made up a "sheet" of manufactured patches and had players sign those instead of making the cards...they use manufactured patches in so many products they could then choose to use them when they want to. I probably just gave Panini a really sensible idea.

[nbawxy2010]

another product that I had high hopes for but again after seeing the amount of crap that comes out of it vs. the good stuff will not buy any boxes or cases (like NT)

here's my long winded thoughts

to be fair
looks wise it does have some nice original ideas, think:
- thunderstruck with KD looks quite nice (big pic of KD and big auto in silver).
- USA cards look nicer than the previous sets to me (bit cramped but player pic, auto and jersey/patch have their own space, or is my bar set low coz panini has monopoly as these designs should be standard?)
- base cards are nice and clean

copy
(only started getting back into the hobby in 2010, so pls correct me if i'm wrong with below)
flag patches auto = copied from UD
auto booklets = copied from UD
crusade = court kings dual jersey, and what the hell are they crusading against? not that sure but panini has a lot of "themed" cards that does not have much to do with bball?
flag patches = NT manu team logo on patch auto = gold standard whatever its called, how many @#!$@ times are they going to recycle this design

WTF
- trapped sticker auto is bad enough, but in many cases parts of their autos are cut off?!

- trapped sticker auto box that cuts of players bodies? check out antawn jamison #25 auto on ebay, his groin is cut off and his auto replacing it, hey he may like to call it his "little antawn" but come on

- manu flag/USA bball logo/team logo, how many products across the 2 yrs hv we seen this?
- manu logoman to #149!!!
- manu logoman with game used jersey, but have statement on card that guarantees the jersey as game used but say nothing on the logoman, which implies to those not familiar it is also game used. this is borderline fraud. almost like fake handbags etc

funny
rookie cards that has the "2010-11" cut out with jersey/patch underneath - is it just me or does the:
- nice big picture
- year
- black frame
make you think that the people in the cards are dead I do actually think it kinda looks nice but just looks a bit like a tombstone thing haha

remember reading somewhere there's a conspiracy theory that coz they have 3 years, 1st year will have some nice give away products that are loaded to suck people in, then the remaining 2 shaft people to stock up money when UD and topps (hopefully) comes back?? looking more true to me than not

[dareshan]

I loved the Monta Ellis. Looks great. I love auto cards that you can't see the auto's. What a joke!!! LOL I just wrote about my case of Dominion hockey. Got a ton of 1 color jersey cards in a $400 product. What a waste. Was so disappointed I left the card at the shop & told him I would pick them up another day. Didn't want to have to look at them twice. National Treasures is barely 1 month old. What is this now, put out a high end product every month until we can ruin the hobby again with over-produced autograph cards.

[nissandriver77]

Originally Posted by UltimateDeron

Excellent point. All of the manufactured patch autos could actually be on card autos or on game used patch autos if Panini was smart, which they arent. I love how Tracy Hackler says that the reason they keep making the manufactured patch autos is that collectors like them. Who are these collectors!? lol...

Lol Tracy Hackler sounds like a money Hungry Douche , the reason they make Manu Patches as it is cheaper than paying top $$$ for Game Worn jersey's and cutting them up simple economics a Manu Patch cost's jack and a game used jersey cost's much more.

But to show how Greedy they are they are mass producing rubbish ( most of the designs are generic at best just changing colours )that cost jack and selling for top dollar Capitalism at it's best .

I just don't realize why all the card companies can't produce and let the consumers decide what they want not being force feed Crap at top $$ prices, Stupid NBA with their licensing issues.

[GoClips!]

Originally Posted by mightbe

I think when they show photos of players doing a signing they sometimes do show the player autographing manufactured patch cards.

It wouldn't surprise me if they made up a "sheet" of manufactured patches and had players sign those instead of making the cards...they use manufactured patches in so many products they could then choose to use them when they want to. I probably just gave Panini a really sensible idea.

I'm pretty sure that the players not only sign a "sheet" of material, but it is before the manufactured patches are even sewn on. This is the only explanation to how Magic Johnson Autos ended up in Donruss EEE Baseball last year with Arizona St. Logos(The Jordan Swagerty situation). Wouldn't Magic have asked about signing on a manufactured square with a school he has ZERO connection to?

[hairyangryfella]

Originally Posted by GoClips!

I'm pretty sure that the players not only sign a "sheet" of material, but it is before the manufactured patches are even sewn on. This is the only explanation to how Magic Johnson Autos ended up in Donruss EEE Baseball last year with Arizona St. Logos(The Jordan Swagerty situation). Wouldn't Magic have asked about signing on a manufactured square with a school he has ZERO connection to?

You might be right... but Magic has been involved in a few auto mishaps... like signing below a picture of Bird and not himself (Exquisite dual enshrinements), though it is unknown who signed that card first...

[hairyangryfella]

But yeah, this is the last straw. I was already not buying Panini products, this just disgusts me and makes me NEVER want to buy anything they produce.

Unfortunately, there are always idiots who will buy their junk, so why would they change.

[hairyangryfella]

Didn't I already buy this card?
2011 PANINI ELITE BLACK DENNIS RODMAN 69/99 | eBay

No, wait, it was just a different set...
eBay - New & used electronics, cars, apparel, collectibles, sporting goods & more at low prices

Why not be lazy....

[coolz]

Don't buy their products!!!
Then maybe they'll wonder why their products didn't sell

[XARZY]

why do they feature Nique Clippers Autos and then Hawks GU cards?

[thor_rider08]

Originally Posted by hairyangryfella

Didn't I already buy this card?
2011 PANINI ELITE BLACK DENNIS RODMAN 69/99 | eBay

No, wait, it was just a different set...
eBay - New & used electronics, cars, apparel, collectibles, sporting goods & more at low prices

Why not be lazy....

Exactly!!!!
Its a bunch of bull #@#@#@#@!
Its the same things a gold standard!!!! BUT 2x the PRICE!!!!!!!!
I see this crap all of the time.
I like the fact cards are hard signed for a # of reasons.
Imagine if kobe had to hard sign cards.... how many would there be?
I would imagine at least 50% less.

The pure LACK of desire to create a product that people want should be Panini's moto... Making #@#@#@#@ you dont want bc you have nothing else to buy... now let me see your papers.

[deltapi1049]

You really cant charge what they are charging per box and not have Jordan or good looking cards. No one wants a manupatch auto in a super high end box, especially when they put them in EVERY product.

[Orangejello727]

Originally Posted by GoClips!

I'm pretty sure that the players not only sign a "sheet" of material, but it is before the manufactured patches are even sewn on. This is the only explanation to how Magic Johnson Autos ended up in Donruss EEE Baseball last year with Arizona St. Logos(The Jordan Swagerty situation). Wouldn't Magic have asked about signing on a manufactured square with a school he has ZERO connection to?

They do. Sticker autos are sheets of mailing labels in different colors or formats. They bascially give a rep a ton of sheets and they meet up with the players who sign them. They have it shipped back to the card company via fedex. Thats the process.

This even opens the question to if certain autos are even authentic at times. All that is done is witnessed by someone for the company.

[GoClips!]

Originally Posted by Orangejello727

They do. Sticker autos are sheets of mailing labels in different colors or formats. They bascially give a rep a ton of sheets and they meet up with the players who sign them. They have it shipped back to the card company via fedex. Thats the process.

This even opens the question to if certain autos are even authentic at times. All that is done is witnessed by someone for the company.

Yeah, I know how sticker sheets are made and used. I was just saying that the manufactured patches are really no different from the sticker sheets, and in a way are even more deceiving because of the sewing of patches post-autos.

[XARZY]

Soon they will sow 40 logoman onto 1 jersey and have the player put it on for 30 seconds and voila 40 event worn logoman!

[coolz]

Originally Posted by XARZY

Soon they will sow 40 logoman onto 1 jersey and have the player put it on for 30 seconds and voila 40 event worn logoman!

Dang!!! don't give them ideas like that!!
that's pretty brilliant though...

[Orangejello727]

Originally Posted by XARZY

Soon they will sow 40 logoman onto 1 jersey and have the player put it on for 30 seconds and voila 40 event worn logoman!

Isnt that what all exquisite and NT RPA are? They are all event worn pieces. But no one ever complains about those.

03 Exqusite RPAs are all event work patches/jerseys. They basically put it on and take it off. To me thats the same thing as a manufactured logo or any piece of material.

[UltimateDeron]

Originally Posted by GoClips!

Yeah, I know how sticker sheets are made and used. I was just saying that the manufactured patches are really no different from the sticker sheets, and in a way are even more deceiving because of the sewing of patches post-autos.

I've seen pictures from the NFL Rookie Photoshoot where the players were signing manufactured patches. They were pieces of cloth with the logo already sewn into it before the signed.

[nbacardDOTnet]

Originally Posted by thebeatlephil97

Look at the quality control on this monta Ellis black auto.

10/11 Elite Black Box Auto Flag Monta Ellis 56/99 | eBay

and Darko without 31

DARKO MILICIC DUAL FLAG PATCH AUTO 127/149 2010 11 ELITE BLACK BOX | eBay

10-11 BLACK BOX DARKO MILICIC FLAG PATCH AUTO SERBIA /149 | eBay