25% of HOF votes are in and the leaders are... - Page 6

SportsAutoFreak · 01-04-2016, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skipscards

They need to. Hec, they really need to get to 83%.

Craig Biggio was just above the line in 2014 when he was two votes short. Right now Bagwell and Raines are still in better position than Biggio was.

Skipscards · 01-04-2016, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tkraft24

I don't even know anymore. Let me fix my post:

I know, lol. It's just funny we could read the same thing and see the opposite.

Skipscards · 01-04-2016, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SportsAutoFreak

Craig Biggio was just above the line in 2014 when he was two votes short. Right now Bagwell and Raines are still in better position than Biggio was.

That's one example but I hope you're right. Looking across most of the guys above 50-60% we've seen drops of 5-8%.

SportsAutoFreak · 01-05-2016, 12:19 AM

I think perception is skewed among the fans and voters when it comes to the Hall. I've debated a lot about Roger Maris recently, arguing against him. The more I think about it, the more I think his 1961 season is overrated because of the homers he hit. While it will forever be a remarkable achievement, not only do I think he was undeserving of the A.L. MVP, he might've even been undeserving of second place.

It's amazing how a great game or season can cloud one's judgment. How can anyone tell me that Maris staying on all 15 ballots while Norm Cash was one and done was justified? I don't think it's takes a genius to know why it happened, but I can't think why it should have.

Skipscards · 01-05-2016, 01:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SportsAutoFreak

I think perception is skewed among the fans and voters when it comes to the Hall. I've debated a lot about Roger Maris recently, arguing against him. The more I think about it, the more I think his 1961 season is overrated because of the homers he hit. While it will forever be a remarkable achievement, not only do I think he was undeserving of the A.L. MVP, he might've even been undeserving of second place.

It's amazing how a great game or season can cloud one's judgment. How can anyone tell me that Maris staying on all 15 ballots while Norm Cash was one and done was justified? I don't think it's takes a genius to know why it happened, but I can't think why it should have.

It's late so I don't have time to debate in depth. I'll just summarize by saying I disagree. Maris absolutely deserved the MVP in 1961.

dhcollecting · 01-05-2016, 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skipscards

It's late so I don't have time to debate in depth. I'll just summarize by saying I disagree. Maris absolutely deserved the MVP in 1961.

Not according to the stats he does only when you take into account that magical hype created by the media surrounding big market teams. Then 1 stat is enough to trump everything else!

Skipscards · 01-05-2016, 01:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dhcollecting

Not according to the stats he does only when you take into account that magical hype created by the media surrounding big market teams. Then 1 stat is enough to trump everything else!

Sorry, but it had nothing to do with his playing for a big market team. He hit 61 homeruns in one season for the World Champs. The most advanced stats at the time were essentially the triple crown stats. He took down the most hallowed record in the game set by the greatest player in the game's history. Sometimes that does trump everything else.

CharlieHustle · 01-05-2016, 02:51 AM

I'm looking at some ballots and I see a lot of votes for Jeff Kent, yet a lot of those ballots who have included Kent, have omitted Bonds. I think an argument could be made that the only reason Kent is even in the HOF discussion, is because of 6 years hitting behind Bonds.
He had 3 solid season after his SF tenure (2 years for HOU and 1 for LAD), but clearly, his SF numbers are the key to a HOF vote.

jlzinck · 01-05-2016, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by C&M Sports Memorabil

This also brings in the "automatic you are in" numbers such as:

3,000 hits
500 HR's (before steroids)
1,500 RBI's (before steroids)
300 wins

I would personally vote for someone that achieved "the magic number"

This is why numbers are so important in baseball and why the steroid players should never get in (IMHO)

My mom got me the 1975 Baseball Encyclopedia for Christmas in 1975.

At that time 300 HR's was the magic number. There were NO players who were eligible for the HOF that were not in with 300 HR's

The book was awesome. Had every player ever to appear in a major league game. I would read it for hours at a time

Orange October · 01-05-2016, 08:22 AM

I'd like to see Mussina finish over 50% this year. I think he was around 24% last time. Maybe there's hope for him eventually.

jmscoggin · 01-05-2016, 08:40 AM

Might as well join the bandwagon. So many of you want to water down the Hall and put in all types of fringe candidates so I might as well join, Chone Figgins in 2019. Can I get a second?

Keyser Soze · 01-05-2016, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmscoggin

Might as well join the bandwagon. So many of you want to water down the Hall and put in all types of fringe candidates so I might as well join, Chone Figgins in 2019. Can I get a second?

I second based solely on the fact that he played a huge part in my 2005 fantasy baseball championship

**EDITED TO ADD - Just realized that, based on my rationale for supporting Figgins, I now have to support Bob Wickman and Morgan Ensberg for the HOF

Skipscards · 01-05-2016, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orange October

I'd like to see Mussina finish over 50% this year. I think he was around 24% last time. Maybe there's hope for him eventually.

Moose and Schilling both will go in eventually. Write it down.

Skipscards · 01-05-2016, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmscoggin

Might as well join the bandwagon. So many of you want to water down the Hall and put in all types of fringe candidates so I might as well join, Chone Figgins in 2019. Can I get a second?

Well it's about time! Though we ain't exactly "Friends of Keltner".

jmscoggin · 01-05-2016, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keyser Soze

I second based solely on the fact that he played a huge part in my 2005 fantasy baseball championship

**EDITED TO ADD - Just realized that, based on my rationale for supporting Figgins, I now have to support Bob Wickman and Morgan Ensberg for the HOF

You back Chone and I'll back Wickman and Ensberg. Quid pro quo.

SportsAutoFreak · 01-05-2016, 10:18 AM

Who are these fringe candidates you're alluding to when discussing Chone Figgins?

SportsAutoFreak · 01-05-2016, 02:14 PM

Bagwell is more than 80 again.

jmscoggin · 01-05-2016, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SportsAutoFreak

Who are these fringe candidates you're alluding to when discussing Chone Figgins?

Do not try to pigeon hole me into backing up my outlandish comments.

Skipscards · 01-05-2016, 11:59 PM

Here's a great article the illustrates par of why I support a bigger Hall...

Recent players still getting shortchanged in Hall of Fame voting - SweetSpot- ESPN

ilovethelakings · 01-06-2016, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmscoggin

Might as well join the bandwagon. So many of you want to water down the Hall and put in all types of fringe candidates so I might as well join, Chone Figgins in 2019. Can I get a second?

Huck the faters! I third, fourth, and fifth that. Loved me some Figgins when he was playing for the Angels.

rats60 · 01-06-2016, 01:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skipscards

It's late so I don't have time to debate in depth. I'll just summarize by saying I disagree. Maris absolutely deserved the MVP in 1961.

Mantle deserved the MVP over Maris. Maris wouldn't have come close to 61 HRs without Mantle hitting behind him getting him good pitchest to hit. Mantle's overall stats were better too.

SportsAutoFreak · 01-06-2016, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by speedyjg13

I dont understand why people want Raines to make it. No MVP, no 3000 hits, 1 silver slugger, no gold gloves, 1 batting title, 3 WS rings (which he was more riding on other people's success, kinda like a scrub player does on a WS team each year). Someone please justify Raines belonging in the hall of fame. His addition will only water it down, almost as if there was nobody to vote in so they just picked one and let him in just to say someone got in.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mwash1983

I have no idea, he was great his first 6 years and then average after. Pinson has a better case for the hall than Raines does.

It's because his value and worthiness of enshrinement stems from beyond the awards and magical numbers.

theflushingmets · 01-06-2016, 09:37 AM

if griffey doesnt get %100, its obviously on some personal vendetta BS and that guy should get his ability to vote taken away lol

im hoping for piazza, raines and griff all making it.

for some reason i cant be convinced bagwell deserves to get in but carlos delgado was a 1 and done last year. i get all his mvp votes and his career .408 OBP, i suppose i dont understand the disparity of the voting though. like to some bagwell is a no brainer.

jrosales · 01-06-2016, 09:59 AM

Looks like Raines and Bagwell may not make it, as each is hovering around 75-78% at the moment.

SportsAutoFreak · 01-06-2016, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theflushingmets

if griffey doesnt get %100, its obviously on some personal vendetta BS and that guy should get his ability to vote taken away lol

im hoping for piazza, raines and griff all making it.

for some reason i cant be convinced bagwell deserves to get in but carlos delgado was a 1 and done last year. i get all his mvp votes and his career .408 OBP, i suppose i dont understand the disparity of the voting though. like to some bagwell is a no brainer.

That's because Bagwell IS a no brainer. Delgado deserved better than one and done, but he wasn't Bagwell.

01-05-2016, 08:40 AM	#136
jmscoggin Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: TX Posts: 21,444 jmscoggin jmscoggin	Might as well join the bandwagon. So many of you want to water down the Hall and put in all types of fringe candidates so I might as well join, Chone Figgins in 2019. Can I get a second? __________________ https://www.hofautographcollector.com/

01-05-2016, 11:59 PM	#144
Skipscards Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: In Tribute To The Great Ryno Posts: 30,117 jlankf2 jmp4	Here's a great article the illustrates par of why I support a bigger Hall... Recent players still getting shortchanged in Hall of Fame voting - SweetSpot- ESPN __________________ Go Royals!! #RoyalsIn2015 <---It Happened!! #TEAMZinck Sometimes it is astounding that we are able to persist in a world so full of morons.

01-06-2016, 09:37 AM	#148
theflushingmets Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Richmond VA Posts: 2,014 Rob_digital_nyc Theflushingmets516	if griffey doesnt get %100, its obviously on some personal vendetta BS and that guy should get his ability to vote taken away lol im hoping for piazza, raines and griff all making it. for some reason i cant be convinced bagwell deserves to get in but carlos delgado was a 1 and done last year. i get all his mvp votes and his career .408 OBP, i suppose i dont understand the disparity of the voting though. like to some bagwell is a no brainer. __________________ Always looking to add more to my Mets collection. Currently looking for high end cards of the more obscure players to put on a Mets uni in the bigs.

01-06-2016, 09:59 AM	#149
jrosales Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 2,867 rosales_art	Looks like Raines and Bagwell may not make it, as each is hovering around 75-78% at the moment. __________________ My DeviantArt sketch card gallery, with newly-created artwork uploaded regularly: http://jrosales1.deviantart.com/gallery Always open to discussing sketch card commissions. Please PM me for my availability.

01-05-2016, 12:19 AM	#129
SportsAutoFreak Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 16,065	I think perception is skewed among the fans and voters when it comes to the Hall. I've debated a lot about Roger Maris recently, arguing against him. The more I think about it, the more I think his 1961 season is overrated because of the homers he hit. While it will forever be a remarkable achievement, not only do I think he was undeserving of the A.L. MVP, he might've even been undeserving of second place. It's amazing how a great game or season can cloud one's judgment. How can anyone tell me that Maris staying on all 15 ballots while Norm Cash was one and done was justified? I don't think it's takes a genius to know why it happened, but I can't think why it should have.

01-05-2016, 02:51 AM	#133
CharlieHustle Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 2,532 nvsportscards702	I'm looking at some ballots and I see a lot of votes for Jeff Kent, yet a lot of those ballots who have included Kent, have omitted Bonds. I think an argument could be made that the only reason Kent is even in the HOF discussion, is because of 6 years hitting behind Bonds. He had 3 solid season after his SF tenure (2 years for HOU and 1 for LAD), but clearly, his SF numbers are the key to a HOF vote.

01-05-2016, 08:22 AM	#135
Orange October Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Annapolis, MD Posts: 5,161 orangeoctober88	I'd like to see Mussina finish over 50% this year. I think he was around 24% last time. Maybe there's hope for him eventually.

01-05-2016, 10:18 AM	#141
SportsAutoFreak Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 16,065	Who are these fringe candidates you're alluding to when discussing Chone Figgins?

01-05-2016, 02:14 PM	#142
SportsAutoFreak Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 16,065	Bagwell is more than 80 again.