Blowout's AL/NL Challenge

[Hollywood42]

I've had this idea for a cool league in my head for quite awhile, and it's finally a good time to see if anybody is interested in making it happen. I have some details worked out already, there's some I'm not quite sure about yet, and there's others that I'd like to have owners help me decide, so I'll share the basic idea of what I'm envisioning and we can hammer out specifics where needed once the league fills up.

By joining this league, you are committing to two separate fantasy baseball leagues. One will be an AL-only league, one will be an NL-only league. Each league is completely independent from the other, but each owner manages a team in each league. You are trying to place high in both leagues in order to be declared the overall champion for the year. By joining, you're committing to managing one AL-only team and one NL-only team. You can't join one or the other, or drop one team later on.

Member list
1. Chittychitty844 - paid
2. Chris Lyle - paid
3. Cornerstore - paid
4. Dbacksbaseball - paid
5. Eckstein197 - paid
6. Hollywood42 - paid
7. Jstasyk1121 - paid
8. Ksmith31 - paid
9. Ray27Ray52 - paid
10. Todderfield - paid

Drafts and keepers spreadsheet

2025 key dates
Payments due: March 2
Keepers due: March 2
Draft begins: March 3
Opening day: March 27

League details

Rosters

Each team in each league gets 19 total slots (plus 2 DL), broken down as follows-

C
1B
2B
3B
SS
OF x3
Flex

SP x4
RP x2

Bench x4
DL x2

You must at all times have a full roster- full means you have at least the minimum number of players for each starter slot- 1 each for C, 1B, 2B, 3B, and SS, 3 OF, 4 SP, and 2 RP. You don't have to have them in your starting lineup, but you do have to have them on your team. Having a player in an IL slot does not count towards the minimum- if, for example your only catcher gets hurt, you may either move them to IL and pick up a new catcher, or keep them off your IL. You can not move them to your IL and go without an active catcher. Having a catcher on IL in the real world DOES count for your full roster, but only if you do not have them in an IL slot on your fantasy roster.

It is up to you to police your opponent during your matchup, same as the SP max starts loophole. You have a 1 week time frame to point out instances of this rule being broken. If you notice the team you're playing against didn't have a 2nd RP for Wednesday of your matchup, you have until next Wednesday to notify us by posting in this thread. If it's been longer than a week, you forfeit your right to call out the illegal roster.

If a team finishes the draft without the minimum number of players at each position, they will be sent to the bottom of the waiver order. If multiple teams do not have a full roster after the draft, the first team to finish drafting will be sent to the end of the order, then the next, and so on. They also must fix their roster by the time the first matchup starts to avoid further penalties. For all full/valid roster concerns, the position a player has listed in ESPN will be our source of truth. A player that will get 1B eligibility eventually does not count towards your 1B count until ESPN has added 1B eligibility for them. What ESPN has listed will be used to resolve all issues related to this.

If a team does not have a full roster during the season, their roster will be deemed illegal and they will earn no points for each day their roster is not full. ESPN will still count the points, but I will go in and adjust the scoring to negate points earned with an illegal roster if your opponent points it out. Personally this seems like an overly harsh penalty to me, but I don't see any other way to do it. Because of this, you must be extremely careful with trades and your 2 acquisitions per week to avoid situations where you accidentally use all your FA adds and are stuck for several days without a legal roster. You have been warned.

Scoring

Hitters
Total bases: +1 (1 point per base)
Runs: +1
SB: +1
CS: -1
BB: +1
RBI: +1
SO: -1
Cycle: +5

Pitchers
IP: +3
L: -5
QS: +4
H: -1
Shutout: +5
ER: -2
K: +1
BB: -1
Complete game: +3
No hitter: +20
Perfect game: +40
Save: +5
Blown save: -3
Hold: +2

Each team will be matched up against 1 other team in matchups lasting 1 week long. Whichever team scores the most points in the week gets a win. If the teams end with the same number of points, each team received a tie.

Trades and Waivers

The AL and NL league are 2 separate entities, and therefore no cross-league trades will be allowed (you cannot trade someone on your AL roster for someone in the NL, or vice versa). This logic applies to draft picks as well. This is to prevent someone from scrapping their team in one league and creating a powerhouse in the other.

In the event a player owned in one league is traded to the other league, the owner in the prior league gets priority to add the player in the new league if they so choose. Using this priority to add the player in the new league would use a waiver claim in the appropriate league - if the owner elects to add the player in their new league, they would be sent to the bottom of the waiver order. Using this priority claim will not use a weekly acquisition. An owner has 48 hours from the time of the trade being made official (meaning announced by the involved MLB teams in the real world) to decide if they would like to add the player in the new league or not.

No matter the owner's decision, they must drop the player in the league that they no longer play in. ESPN does allow stats to be accumulated by players no longer in the appropriate league - should this happen, any points earned by a player after they were traded out of the league will be negated using league commissioner powers.

In the event that an owner elects not to use their priority to add the player in the new league, or if the player was not owned in the prior league, these players will be placed on waivers in the new league. This waiver process will be handled offline from ESPN entirely in our thread - this is to prevent glitches like in 2022 where ESPN sent cross-league traded players directly to free agency rather than them first being placed on waivers. All teams will have 48 hours to make claims in the thread or via PM, again from the time the trade is made official (announced by the MLB teams), at which point the team with the highest waiver position will get the player and be moved to last in the waiver order. As it is a given that multiple players may end up on waivers at the same time, owners will need to communicate their waiver order preferences - someone with the #1 slot in the waiver order only gets to add one player at a time before being moved to last in the waiver order. Same rules as waivers typically follow as in ESPN normally.

Here is an example use case to demonstrate: Say Mike Trout is traded from the AL to the NL. Trout's owner in the AL league must drop him from their roster in the AL. If any stats accumulate before that drop happens, they will be negated by adjusting the matchup scores. That same owner gets priority to add Trout to their NL team. They get 48 hours from when the trade is made official to make this decision. If they elect to pick up their "team option", they add Trout to their NL team and are moved to last in the NL waiver order. If they elect not to use their team option, Trout is placed on temporary waivers and claims will be made in the thread to determine who gets to add Trout in the NL. This same "team option declined" logic is followed for a player who, for example, is not owned in the AL league but then is traded to the NL

Players traded into a league during the season are also are eligible to be kept in their new league (provided they don't get traded back or sign to the other league in the offseason). Keeper cost will be based upon their original price in the original league's draft. Standard keeper rules apply, meaning no players drafted in the 1st round may be kept, and someone not originally drafted would start off with round 10 cost to keep. For example, in our Trout scenario, if he was originally drafted in the 5th round of the AL draft, and then traded to the NL, whoever picks him up in the NL would be able to keep him at round 4 cost the next year.

Players traded into into a league during the offseason are not eligible to be kept in either league. In the Trout example above, if that trade took place in December, he is no longer in the AL and must be dropped from team who owned him in the AL. In the NL he is not eligible to be added since there are no waivers/FA adds during the offseason. So, he would be eligible to be drafted in the next NL draft, but no team would be able to acquire him on their NL roster before then.

Trades will have a voting period of 1 day. 6 votes are required to veto a trade. This is only expected in cases of collusion.

Transaction and Start Limits

Each team will receive 2 FA/waiver acquisitions per week.

Team team will have a max 7 SP starts to use each week.

Lineups can be set daily, locking individually at the start of a player's game.

Playoffs

The top 5 teams in each league will make the playoffs. The format is such that the 4 and 5 seeds will start the playoffs with a play-in game. Playoff matchups will be 1 week long each.

For the 5 teams that miss the playoffs in each league, their season is immediately over after the regular season. ESPN puts together a consolation bracket, but this will NOT be factored into our final standings. The non-playoff teams final finish in each league is their final finish after the regular season. I.e, if you finish the regular season in 10th place in the AL, your final overall standing in the AL is 10th, and you get 10 points towards your overall combined final standings. You do not have the opportunity to finish higher than 10th in the consolation bracket. ESPN does not provide an option to disable the consolation bracket, but we are imagining as if the consolation bracket does not exist.

Consolation bracket games also do not count towards teams overall points scored totals on the season, which are used as tiebreakers in final combined overall standings as needed. Playoff bracket games DO count towards this tiebreaker, but consolation bracket games do not.

Draft

The draft will be held online each year in a snake order. The draft order will be determined by a 2-step process. Picks 1-5 will be determined by a consolation bracket in the format shown below. Note that ESPN does not support custom schedules, so we will manually track the consolation bracket matchups each year in the draft spreadsheet. The winner of the consolation bracket gets the #1 overall pick, the runner-up gets the #2 overall pick, and so on.



Picks 6-10 will be determined by reverse final standings including playoffs. So whoever wins the league will get the 10th pick, second place gets the 9th pick, and so on.

Following the draft, the initial waiver order will be set as the reverse draft order.

Please note the full roster rule- all teams must have at a minimum the following number of players eligible per position- 1 each C, 1B, 2B, 3B, SS, 3 OF, 4 SP, 2 RP. If a team finishes the draft without the minimum number of players at each position, they will be sent to the bottom of the waiver order. If multiple teams do not have a full roster after the draft, the first team to finish drafting will be sent to the end of the order, then the next, and so on. They also must fix their roster by the time the first matchup starts to avoid further penalties.

Keepers

Each team in each league will get 3 keepers per season. A keeper will cost a draft pick in one round higher than that player was taken in the previous year's draft. For example, if I draft Mike Trout in the 6th round in 2019, he would cost be a 5th round pick to keep him in 2020. This means that players drafted in the first round cannot be kept. The draft pick costs stays with a player for the full year. If they were drafted, that determines their cost to keep no matter if they were traded, added and dropped throughout the season, and so on.

If you would like to keep someone that was not drafted in the previous year, they will start off costing a 10th round pick. Players do not need to have MLB experience in order to be kept.

If, through trades or other transactions, you end up with 2 players you would like to keep that cost a draft pick in the same round, the player that scored more points in the previous season will cost a draft pick one additional round higher. For example, if I end up with Bryce Harper and Manny Machado, who were both taken in the 7th round, whoever scored more points between them would cost a 5th round pick to keep, and the other would cost a 6th round pick. In the small chance that they score the exact same number of points, whichever player's last name comes first alphabetically will cost the additional pick. So if Harper and Machado both scored 500 points, Harper would cost me my 5th round pick and Machado would cost me my 6th round pick. An alternative solution to all that would be for me to trade for an additional pick in the 6th round and spend both of them to keep both players in the 6th.

See the Trades and Waivers section for rules regarding players traded across leagues in real life. In short, they are eligible to be kept, and their keeper cost from one league follows them to the other.

League Dues and Payouts

There is a $50 buy in for each owner each year. This $50 covers both the AL and NL leagues. Payouts are determined by the final overall standings, plus a bonus for the regular season champion in each league-

1st - $200
2nd - $150
3rd - $100
AL regular season best record - $25
NL regular season best record - $25

Final combined overall standings between both leagues will be determined by each team's final standings including playoffs in each league. 1st place in each league receives 1 point, 2nd place receives 2 points, and so on, with last place receiving 10 points. To determine the overall final standings, you will add up the points you got in each league based on your final standing. Whoever has the fewest combined points is crowned champion for that year (golf scoring, low score wins).

In the event of a tie in the regular season final standings, the teams tied for 1st place in the given league will split the regular season bonus evenly. For example, if 2 teams in the AL league finish with the same 20-2 record which leads the league, they would both receive $12.50.

In the event of a tie in the overall final standings (i.e. 2 teams end tied for first with 4 points), the tiebreaker is most points scored over the entire season in both leagues combined (playoffs included). If a second tiebreaker is needed, the two teams will split the money for the slots evenly.

For example, consider the following situation-

Team A- 5 points
Team B- 7 points
Team C- 7 points
Team D- 9 points

Team A gets the first place prize of $200. Whoever scored more points in both leagues combined, including playoffs, gets the 2nd place prize of $150, with the other receiving the 3rd place prize of $100. If both teams happened to have scored the same number of points, it will be considered a tie for second place and the two teams would split the 2nd and 3rd place prize money evenly 150+100 = 250 / 2 = $125 for each team.

Special COVID rules for 2020

These rules applied for the shortened 2020 season and are listed here for historical purposes. These rules are no longer in effect.

• $20 entry fee, $30 applies towards next year's payment (the $30 can also be refunded if you so choose)
• 1 team in the MLB must reach 40 full games played for our season to count. If no teach reaches 40 complete games, the full $50 will be applied to next year (or refunded)
  • I am not 100% sure how the rolling over will work logistically, but we will figure it out. Worst comes to worst I can refund everyone and we can do our usual collections in February
• Scoring format- Head to head but roto style. Everyone is matched up against everyone for the week-long matchup, you get a win for all team you finish with more points than, and a loss for everyone you finish with less points than. Standard rules for SP limits still apply. I will keep track of results in our draft spreadsheet as I don't believe ESPN can handle it outright
• End of season standings in each league will be determined by W/L record. Tiebreaker is total points scored over the full season, second tiebreaker is a random. After setting the final standings in each league, we will use our normal method to crown the overall leader (1st place = 1 point, 2nd place = 2 points, etc, lowest combined point total wins). Tiebreaker for overall standings is total points scored in both leagues combined
• The top 3 teams finish in the money ($110/$70/$30). The first place team of each league also gets a $15 bonus. Same tiebreaker rules as above apply here
• Keeper values will not escalate next season. Costs will be the round they were drafted in this season, NOT +1. Prices will escalate again as usual the following season (2022) assuming next season is back to normal
• Teams still get 2 keepers per league next season
• Trade deadline will be August 26, 33 days into the season
• We will bump up the max acquisitions per week to 3 to account for potential increased IL/COVID transactions
• All adds, drops, and trades are final. If we get a week into the season and you trade Mike Trout for Gerrit Cole, and the next day the rest of the season is canceled, you still have Cole. This also means that if you drop someone sitting this season out, you do not get them back in the offseason as a keeper option. You must hold them for the full season
• To account for opt outs and potential positive COVID tests, we will increase the available bench slots on each team by 1 space and add 2 more DL slots
  • We will do 1 quick additional round of draft picks to fill the extra bench slot for all teams that wish to participate, picking up the draft order where it left off. No trades of these extra picks, please
  • Players drafted in this fill-in round will start off as round 19 cost to keep, should that scenario arise

[bn2cardz]

I am interested. You don't really know me so I understand if you don't let me have a spot. I am looking for a better league, though, than my friend set up because I felt I was the only one participating on a daily basis.

For my understanding are you going to average the placement for the NL and AL team to decide the winner each week?

[Hollywood42]

That's one of the things that we'd need to work out, how best to determine an overall champion. I kinda like the idea of awarding points based on where you finish (if 10 teams, 10 points for 1st place, 9 points for 2nd place, etc in each league), and the overall winner for the year is whoever has the most points. But we could also average what place each person gets in each league, and I'm sure there's other options out there as well

Originally Posted by bn2cardz

I am interested. You don't really know me so I understand if you don't let me have a spot. I am looking for a better league, though, than my friend set up because I felt I was the only one participating on a daily basis.

For my understanding are you going to average the placement for the NL and AL team to decide the winner each week?

[bn2cardz]

Originally Posted by Hollywood42

That's one of the things that we'd need to work out, how best to determine an overall champion. I kinda like the idea of awarding points based on where you finish (if 10 teams, 10 points for 1st place, 9 points for 2nd place, etc in each league), and the overall winner for the year is whoever has the most points. But we could also average what place each person gets in each league, and I'm sure there's other options out there as well

Another thing since I haven't done League specific leagues. How is it handled if a player changes from AL to NL (or vice versa) during the season?

This really seems like it would be fun. I have only ever used Yahoo fantasy sports, but am excited at the idea of doing this if you allow me to join.

[SethMurphy]

You know I’m in friend

[Hollywood42]

I actually haven't done AL/NL specific leagues before either, but from what I hear, generally there's a few options for handling when a player gets traded from one league to another. I.e. let the team keep the player anyways to the end of the year, make them lose that player but they get the rights to add the players that were traded to the NL if they wish, and so on. Not quite sure how I feel about this yet, but given that we'll have both an AL and a NL component, another option would be they lose the player in one league but get them in another. So if I had Trout in the AL league but he was traded to the Phillies, I'd lose him in the AL league but get the rights to him in the NL league. Something that'll have to be clarified for sure, we can get to that when it's full and we have more input from everyone

Based on our conversations here already, I'm getting the vibe that participation wouldn't be an issue from you- I'm cool letting you on!

Originally Posted by bn2cardz

Another thing since I haven't done League specific leagues. How is it handled if a player changes from AL to NL (or vice versa) during the season?

This really seems like it would be fun. I have only ever used Yahoo fantasy sports, but am excited at the idea of doing this if you allow me to join.

[bn2cardz]

Originally Posted by Hollywood42

I actually haven't done AL/NL specific leagues before either, but from what I hear, generally there's a few options for handling when a player gets traded from one league to another. I.e. let the team keep the player anyways to the end of the year, make them lose that player but they get the rights to add the players that were traded to the NL if they wish, and so on. Not quite sure how I feel about this yet, but given that we'll have both an AL and a NL component, another option would be they lose the player in one league but get them in another. So if I had Trout in the AL league but he was traded to the Phillies, I'd lose him in the AL league but get the rights to him in the NL league. Something that'll have to be clarified for sure, we can get to that when it's full and we have more input from everyone

Based on our conversations here already, I'm getting the vibe that participation wouldn't be an issue from you- I'm cool letting you on!

I am looking forward to it. I am looking forward to playing against people that may actually play. Having two teams should be an interesting twist as well.

[Grilledeggplant]

Please put me down, very interested!

[todderfield]

I am interested.

[Cornerstore]

This is neat.... Yeah I need another league to take a title in.

[Hollywood42]

Got you down for another league of disappointments

Originally Posted by Cornerstore

This is neat.... Yeah I need another league to take a title in.

Glad to have ya here too

Originally Posted by todderfield

I am interested.

I'm going to add you to the waitlist for now. Like I outlined in the OP, nothing personal, but there's been several times in the past where I've let someone in with a low post count or low activity levels on BO, and they didn't do much of anything for the year. Nothing personal, I'd just like to give preference to people that are a safer bet to be active for the full year, and the only way for me to do that is go by post count. Happy to have you if we need space, but I'd like to kinda see how much interest there is in here first

Originally Posted by Grilledeggplant

Please put me down, very interested!

[Grilledeggplant]

I understand if you dont want to mess with the best ... but put me down for 12 if it hits 11 pls

[Ray27Ray52]

As long as it's for money I am in.

[christhecpa]

I too would be interested if for money. I've played NFBC for six years and looking to diversify from the same scoring, same set of rules, etc.

[Hollywood42]

Got you down, thanks for understanding!

Originally Posted by Grilledeggplant

I understand if you dont want to mess with the best ... but put me down for 12 if it hits 11 pls

Added you two with the paid condition

Originally Posted by Ray27Ray52

As long as it's for money I am in.

Originally Posted by christhecpa

I too would be interested if for money. I've played NFBC for six years and looking to diversify from the same scoring, same set of rules, etc.

Bump!

[Peties Army]

I’ll get in. I don’t really get what’s going on with whole AL nl but I can mock all the picks In any league.

I’d like to spend under 50. Anything over I’d not okay. I’ll also do if it’s free

[7jacfire]

I'd be interested but I also don't think I'd do anything over $50.

[SethMurphy]

Since I didn't mention before, I'd say my cap is $50 entry as well

[Peties Army]

Hollywood, you forgot to add my name.

[Peties Army]

Originally Posted by Hollywood42

I've had this idea for a cool league in my head for quite awhile, and it's finally a good time to see if anybody is interested in making it happen. I have some details worked out already, there's some I'm not quite sure about yet, and there's others that I'd like to have owners help me decide, so I'll share the basic idea of what I'm envisioning and we can hammer out specifics where needed once the league fills up.

Here's how it will work- By joining this league, you are committing to two separate fantasy baseball leagues. One will be an AL-only league, one will be an NL-only league. Each league is completely independent from the other, but each owner manages a team in each league. You are trying to place high in both leagues in order to be declared the overall champion for the year. By joining, you're committing to managing one AL-only team and one NL-only team. You can't join one or the other, or drop one team later on.

The details that I'm pretty well set in stone on are as follows-

• Points league (exact breakdown TBD, I have a few good options to pick from), with head to head weekly matchups
• ESPN (maybe Fantrax if ESPN finishes their updates and things are terrible)
• Some keeper aspect (open to negotiation for the exact total, but I was thinking at least 5-10 keepers per team per league
• Snake draft (randomized order for year 1)

I'm open to discussion if this should be free or paid, though I'd prefer to keep it under the $50-100 range. Other specifics like roster breakdown, exact scoring, transaction limits, playoff settings, etc, I all have ideas on but will wait and see if this fills up or not so we can discuss as a group.

I'm targeting 10 different owners here, perhaps 12 if there's enough interest. Preference will be given to members that have built up a reputation of being active with solid post counts and/or feedbacks, or members that I know from experience are active in fantasy leagues. Nothing against newer members, but I've dealt multiple times with members that are new to Blowout and join a league and then don't really participate, and that's just a waste of everyone's time and not fair to everyone else in the league that is being active every day. So while I'll keep track of signups on a first come, first serve basis, there may be an aspect of preference given to members that I know will stay active.

This will ask significant time from everyone as it's 2 leagues rolled into one, so I want to make sure as many owners as possible are going to stay active all year long, and what I described above is the best way for me to try and ensure that. If you do have a good post count but don't see you really wanting to commit to 2 separate leagues here, please consider letting someone else sign up. I really want this to be a cool, fully active league, so I'm going to be a little bit picky with membership in hopes of creating a fully active league

I'll keep track of members that are interested in a list below. If you are interested, leave a comment and I'll add your name to the list. When we have enough people (ideally 10, perhaps 12), we'll start having some discussions about rule specifics and everything- Other than what I outlined above as what I'd really like to be a part of the league, I'd like to get input from everyone so all members have input and are happy with it. I know that leaves a fair amount of details up in the air, but let me know if you have any questions beyond what would be discussed later on.

Interest list
1. Hollywood42
2. bn2cardz
3. SethMurphy (max $50)
4. Todderfield
5. Cornerstore
6. Ray27Ray52 (if paid league)
7. christhecpa (if paid league)
8. 7jacfire (max $50)
9.
10.
(11.)
(12.)

Waitlist
1. Grilledeggplant

never been in an AL/NL league. Can we trade between leagues?

[Hollywood42]

We're up to 10 including Eggplant. I'll give another day or two for anyone else to note their interest and see if we can get to 12, otherwise we'll roll with 10


We'll discuss that and a whole lot more when we've finalized owners. Want to have some discussion on some things like that with everyone and come to a consensus

Originally Posted by Peties Army

never been in an AL/NL league. Can we trade between leagues?

[Peties Army]

Originally Posted by Hollywood42

We're up to 10 including Eggplant. I'll give another day or two for anyone else to note their interest and see if we can get to 12, otherwise we'll roll with 10


We'll discuss that and a whole lot more when we've finalized owners. Want to have some discussion on some things like that with everyone and come to a consensus

Got it.

Like I’ve said I’ve never done an al/nl only and this way is very different so I’m up for anything, unless it is freaky. I don’t get down like that.

[Sportscards515]

interested

[Grilledeggplant]

one more to go?.... lets go peoples

[Peties Army]

Look I’ll be honest the game itself, whatever it’s fantasy baseball it’s all the same, but I think the set up could be fascinating. Really so many ways this could go.

It’s very interesting