NYT: "Retouching Mona Lisa Is Restoration, but a Mickey Mantle? Collectors Cry Fraud"

[pspa123]

It will be in the physical newspaper tomorrow.

[RogerGodahell]

PWCC is probably panicking right now

[pcptrade]

I mentioned this few weeks ago ...

Originally Posted by pcptrade

Brent's comparison of sports card market to art market is a joke. In Art world, we are looking at unique paintings (1/1) by painters such as Da Vinci, Caravaggio, Vermeer, Picasso, Van Gogh etc; unlike sports cards where majority of the cards are not 1/1. In art world, any restoration work done is disclosed prior to the sale. Auction houses such as Christie's, Bonhams, Sotheby's which sell paintings worth millions of dollars use the term restoration (not conservation) and disclose it prior to sale.

https://www.theartnewspaper.com/news...salvator-mundi

Closest comparison to sports card market would be Rare books and Comic books, where any restoration work done is disclosed because it affects the sale price! First edition of Newton Principia 1687 (less than 500 copies) sells for more than million USD in unrestored condition. The same book in restored condition sells for $500- $750K depending on the amount or degree of restoration. In the multi-million dollar art and rare book world, it is a big no no if a restoration work is not disclosed. Same is true for Golden age and Silver age rare comic books with print run less than 1000. Restored comics get a different label (CGC/CBCS restored label with details of restoration on the label) and sell for way less (more than 50%) compared to unrestored ones.

It is easy to recognize restorations such as touch up, trimming, paper repairs etc in golden age and silver age comic books, which makes it easy for the graders to pick it up without knowing the history of that comic book. If not for that, I am sure we will be seeing lot of alterations in comic books to get a unrestored high grade. Rare paintings are completely different in that panel of experts examine the art work thoroughly which includes scanning (Infrared spectroscopy) and paint pigment analysis before they are put up for auction.

Bottom Line-If a card is restored or conserved (as PWCC likes to describe), disclose it to the collectors so that they can decide how much they want to pay for it. Selling a conserved/restored/altered/trimmed card without disclosing it to make profit out of it is pure evil and shady imo. What makes PWCC thinks that conservation is acceptable and they do not have to disclose the conservation work done to a card in their auction description? If I am a collector bidding on a high end card, I would like to know the so called conservation work (as described by PWCC) done to the card.

[RogerGodahell]

The paper shredders are probably incredibly hot

[Bowman1951]

Originally Posted by pcptrade

I mentioned this few weeks ago ...

I remember it well and it has been one of the top posts sorted through all of the junk and bickering in many of these threads.

[Re2pect]

PWCC's dead, Jim.

[RogerGodahell]

Now is the time to roll or else.....Bubba's gonna luv you



Bad boy's bad boys...whatcha gonna do...whatcha gonna do when they come for you?

[superdan49]

Originally Posted by RogerGodahell

PWCC is probably panicking right now

I think it was actually worse for PSA. Gary Moser attacked their credibility, and Joe Orlando did not offer a response.

PWCC at least had the curator at the MET defending them, and although he expressed surprise about the scandal, Ken Kendrick said nice things about Brent.

[ClevelandIC]

Originally Posted by ClevelandIC

New York Times subscription is expensive but more than worth it. Incredible writing.

I just read this article and the swiftness in which then can switch back and forth appealing to the masses is incredible.

In no time flat they explain card grading to a simpleton and next they're speaking the lingo of a true card collector. I love it.

[tmoore_25]

I think the article is right when it says that only a small amount of collectors visit the blowout forums. Thos with deep pockets who can afford some of those cards that have been identified as altered would never know unless the story hits the mainstream. PWCC is trying to manipulate the sports card community with its definitions of altered and conserved. They have got to realize that it is the collector who defines what is and isn't acceptable and in what direction the community takes this hobby, not the businesses.

[pcptrade]

Originally Posted by Bowman1951

I remember it well and it has been one of the top posts sorted through all of the junk and bickering in many of these threads.

Thanks. Glad to know that some members believe "Contributing to a thread" is not just posting pictures of cards/pumping a player and it means more than that

[RogerGodahell]

Originally Posted by superdan49

I think it was actually worse for PSA. Gary Moser attacked their credibility, and Joe Orlando did not offer a response.

PWCC at least had the curator at the MET defending them, and although he expressed surprise about the scandal, Ken Kendrick said nice things about Brent.

I imagine they're all panicking right now

[IronMan2632]

The future of the hobby with "restoration/conservation"

[thenwhatjk]

But fake news failing institution etc?

[majestik101]

Originally Posted by IronMan2632

Saved to favorite pictures. LMAO

[Wade Mulroy]

I'm appalled at this line:

"Yet most of these disputes were confined to message boards, which are not often populated by the richest collectors."

This poor schmuck must not know about my extensive Rick Ankiel collection... gotta be close to at least $200-$250 at this point

Sorry for the rant - I'll go back to eating my brunch of caviar and truffles.

[StlScott]

Congrats to blowout cards for having such a great forum where ideas can be discussed. Shout out to the collector detectives who came up with all of this! You did a great job. Whatever your real life job is you could also could be journalists!

[NoleinJax]

Originally Posted by THE(NEXT)LEVEL

Whatever it is, you know what I mean. It’s targeted to him regardless. The NY Times isn’t pimping his auction. Sorry Mr. Tech.

Edit: sorry Nole, misinterpreted your post

lol no worries.

[NoleinJax]

Originally Posted by superdan49

I think it was actually worse for PSA. Gary Moser attacked their credibility, and Joe Orlando did not offer a response.

PWCC at least had the curator at the MET defending them, and although he expressed surprise about the scandal, Ken Kendrick said nice things about Brent.

Lots of people said nice things about Bernie Madoff too.

[psd2k10]

proud to say I have never bought a single item from PWCC

I saw the shill bidding a mile away. Never understood why a card that sells for $500 for example, sold for $700 or more through PWCC, until I put two and two together.

By the way, let's not forget the other big auction house on ebay that also sells trimmed cards.

[NoleinJax]

Originally Posted by thenwhatjk

But fake news failing institution etc?

I would think you have to separate the political propaganda from real reporting which is a difficult thing to do. Thankfully this story wasn't filled with quotes from anonymous sources that don't exist or that exist to spin their own narrative.

[ClevelandIC]

Originally Posted by Wade Mulroy

I'm appalled at this line:

"Yet most of these disputes were confined to message boards, which are not often populated by the richest collectors."

This poor schmuck must not know about my extensive Rick Ankiel collection... gotta be close to at least $200-$250 at this point

Sorry for the rant - I'll go back to eating my brunch of caviar and truffles.

I was mildly offended. And then I realized the most expensive card I own is worth less than one month of my bills!

[pcptrade]

Originally Posted by Wade Mulroy

I'm appalled at this line:

"Yet most of these disputes were confined to message boards, which are not often populated by the richest collectors."

This poor schmuck must not know about my extensive Rick Ankiel collection... gotta be close to at least $200-$250 at this point

Sorry for the rant - I'll go back to eating my brunch of caviar and truffles.

Haha, most super-collectors (Ken Kendrick, Nat Turner, etc) are not here though. It is small collectors like us who are active here

[BoxBreaker72]

PWCC is untouchable. Should have been eradicated long ago.

If this doesn't do it, nothing will.

[rcmb3220]

Originally Posted by Wade Mulroy

I'm appalled at this line:

"Yet most of these disputes were confined to message boards, which are not often populated by the richest collectors."

This poor schmuck must not know about my extensive Rick Ankiel collection... gotta be close to at least $200-$250 at this point

Sorry for the rant - I'll go back to eating my brunch of caviar and truffles.

Fish eggs and fungus! How I envy you rich people.