What does your team need to do in the 2024 offseason?

[ninjacookies]

Originally Posted by daeve

Yeah but one is a 2/3 and one is a 4/5. Sarr is too slight and weak to hang with any real 5's, at least for a couple years until he gets a little stronger. I see him as more of a tall 4 like JJJ but I don't think he's as good and his shot will need more work. Rizzler meanwhile has great size for a 2/3 and will only get stronger as well, he has better shoulders/frame than Sarr as well, meaning he could put on significantly more muscle if he wanted to.

That's fair about Sarr's current size. He'll probably need another 2 years before we know for sure what his frame's upside is. Good thing is he's a 'young' 19 as he just turned a few months ago.

I still think Sarr is by far the safest pick with the most upside. Watching him, he basically plays and moves like Siakam with an additional half foot to boot. So you're already getting a lot of the pluses of a wing with the added benefits of a shot blocking/ rim running 5. The only real question is how good his perimeter shot can be. But he has a nice, smooth stroke and a solid mid from the top of the key. Very impressive footwork for his size. Super light on his feet.

[daeve]

Originally Posted by ninjacookies

That's fair about Sarr's current size. He'll probably need another 2 years before we know for sure what his frame's upside is. Good thing is he's a 'young' 19 as he just turned a few months ago.

I still think Sarr is by far the safest pick with the most upside. Watching him, he basically plays and moves like Siakam with an additional half foot to boot. So you're already getting a lot of the pluses of a wing with the added benefits of a shot blocking/ rim running 5. The only real question is how good his perimeter shot can be. But he has a nice, smooth stroke and a solid mid from the top of the key. Very impressive footwork for his size. Super light on his feet.

Well that's how I feel about Risacher at this point.

here's my current mock:

1-Rizzler Atl
2-Sarr Was
3-Castle Hou
4-Salaun SA
5-Sheppard DET
6-Clingan CHA
7-Holland POR
8-Knecht Atl via trade
9-Buzelis MEM
10-Topic Uta

[jcardstore]

Originally Posted by ninjacookies

I'd hate to waste a #1 overall on an MPJ clone with *potential* Franz upside.

Defensive bigs with inside-out scoring upside are a far rarer and more valuable asset than pick n' pop 3's.

From what I've seen (albeit small sample) of the kid, he looks exactly like an MPJ/Batum hybrid with the rare dribble drive finish. Distributing/playmaking skills virtually non existent. And there's nothing that points to him having a high defensive floor, which is typically what you want to see out of a game changing wing.

Essentially all you'd be doing is re-running the Dre selection back praying for a better outcome at higher stakes.

7'2" dudes with fluidity that secure the paint don't grow on trees. And traditionally, physicality's been Atlanta's heel. 6'8" Okongwu is not a 5.

If you're committed to Trae, Sarr is the obvious pick, as it works well with his run n' gun style play. Cap's feet are mired in quicksand and he doesn't move well without the ball. Plus he's a lost cause with the rock outside the restricted area.

I'll pour a little hi-c on the curb if Koonin fumbles the bag.

I'll agree with the playmaking / shotcreation aspect of his game because that's just reality. I don't think it's too difficult to project him adding it as a skill just because he's a basketball lifer.

Super high BBIQ kid, dad played pro ball, plays the right way (not the AAU way).

I think it's a totally reasonable assumption that he can develop into a playmaker or shot creator at the NBA level with his size, fluidity, and IQ (if the team that drafts him develops those skills). That's why I think he's a really good fit in ATL because they need that.

I will disagree with the defensive floor comment. Partially because of the IQ, partially because of the physicals.

He's long and fluid. A guy who you can project out 1-4 as a defender but can be a point of attack guy.

I don't really see Franz. I see more of Mikal Bridges with better defense and less creation.

[jcardstore]

The whole Sarr thing feels like people are trying really hard to squint and justify a guy who just has no upside at 1.

In any other year he's a back end of the lottery pick.

If he becomes Nic Claxton you're feeling good with the pick but not at #1.

I don't understand the Ayton comp at all. Ayton was pretty polished offensively and a pretty decent rebounder. Sarr hasn't really shown any offensive polish and is a terrible rebounder for his size.

I think people are nuts if they believe Sarr can be some kind of stretch big. He's shown no ability to hit pull-ups, his shooting form is inconsistent at best, but bad on average.

The shooting thing brings back Wiseman vibes. People saw him hit some open jumpers in a gym and thought it would translate.

[daeve]

Originally Posted by jcardstore

The whole Sarr thing feels like people are trying really hard to squint and justify a guy who just has no upside at 1.

In any other year he's a back end of the lottery pick.

If he becomes Nic Claxton you're feeling good with the pick but not at #1.

I don't understand the Ayton comp at all. Ayton was pretty polished offensively and a pretty decent rebounder. Sarr hasn't really shown any offensive polish and is a terrible rebounder for his size.

I think people are nuts if they believe Sarr can be some kind of stretch big. He's shown no ability to hit pull-ups, his shooting form is inconsistent at best, but bad on average.

The shooting thing brings back Wiseman vibes. People saw him hit some open jumpers in a gym and thought it would translate.

There's been some weird kool-aid being passed around re: Sarr. Agreed, i don't get it... seems like it's just a fixation with "omg this tall guy is switchable on d!" and every time I watch a video showing his highlights it's all dunks and very little actual skill being shown. Again, in a draft like this he's for sure a top 5 guy and seems like he'll be picked within the top 2, but I'm not sold on his skillsets outside of being nimble at his height.

[btmcrushers]

Originally Posted by daeve

I'm getting more and more convinced that if the Hawks keep #1, it should be Donovan Clingan. Sarr has maybe higher upside but he looks like a 2-3 year project and I don't think he's got the ceiling to warrant that for a team that wants to compete right now with a star that's entering his prime years.

Clingan's length and size are not teachable, his shot form is better than Sarr's right now, and I think his hands and passing are underrated. His touch also looks better than advertised from what I've seen. I think he can step in and be an NBA level player in his first year. Sarr can be what, a JJJ + Jabari Smith hybrid? He looks flat-footed compared to both and his shot is worse and slower than both. He's also not strong enough to guard 5's and it will take years of conditioning before he would be, if he gets there.

So aside from my pie-in-the-sky Zion get, I think they probably settle for Ingram if he commits to a contract extension. Or maybe even if he doesn't. Per EPM he was essentially the same value of Zion last season anyway. If the hype is still pushing Zion's value too high then I'm fine with a Murray for BI swap.

The hope would also be for some addition by subtraction in getting rid of Capela and Hunter. Sling those guys to whomever is taking on salary to tank this offseason. Use an asset or two if need be. Pels should send some assets back in the Murray-BI swap anyway, and I'd use them to either attach to Cap/Hunter or to entice the Bulls to finally getting rid of Caruso, who's wasted on that team. I could see them finally blowing it up if Philly can't get PG13 or Butler, then I think they'd target Lavine and the Bulls should be willing. Hell if they get to that point then they'd probably be willing to take on bad contracts for assets, especially if getting rid of Lavine's albatross.

Trae-Caruso-Ingram-JJ-Clingan.

^that's a way improved defensive team if Clingan hits especially. Even if not, Caruso is the perfect player to put next to Trae. Ingram provides a valuable 2ndary scorer from the wing, and if JJ continues to improve then this is the highest ceiling Hawks team in quite some time.

Hawks need to either s**t (go all in) or get off the pot (blow it up).

Option 1: S**t

Trae needs a Giannis, Joel, Zion, Joker, AD type but I do not see any of them being available. I also question if Mikal is actually available. However, Ingram and LaVine are

Hawks - Ingram, Daniels, Lavine + picks from NO
Pelicans - DJM, Bogi
Bulls - Dre, CC (Bulls can then turnaround and trade one of CC or Vuc)

I think the Bulls at this rate would just be happy to get off of LaVine and get a serviceable wing

Hawks Line Up - Trae/LaVine/Ingram/JJ/Sarr
Bench - Daniels, Kobe, OO, MO

Daniels and Kobe can cover LaVine when he misses games. JJ can slide down to SF when Ingram is out then Sarr/OO/Mo can rotate between the 4 and 5. Utilize picks from NO + our current picks for shooting/depth/role players etc.

Starters can score points and has size
Bench is defensive focused

Option 2 - Get off the Pot

If the talk of Spurs wanting to move #4 and #8 for #1 is true and they are after Sarr:

Hawks - #4, #8, our 2025 back + 1 other first + Keldon
Spurs - #1, DJM

Then I am trading Trae for picks and young player or two. Then trading Bogi, Dre, CC and maybe OO and trying to get back 2-3 1st and a young player

2024 - is Kobe, Jalen, #4, #8 , Mo and OO if we keep him. We suck so in a deeper 2025 draft we would hopefully end up with our 2025 back from spurs being a top 3-5 pick, then we would hopefully have another 2025 from the Trae trade + enough ammunition to move back up into the 2025 lottery.

2025 - Kobe, Jalen, 2024 #4, 2024 #8, Mo plus 2 2025 lottery players.

[oldgoldy97]

If Panini is still doing Turkish league cards in five years I can’t wait to pick up a few of these top 10 picks autos on the cheap.

[ninjacookies]

Originally Posted by jcardstore

I'll agree with the playmaking / shotcreation aspect of his game because that's just reality. I don't think it's too difficult to project him adding it as a skill just because he's a basketball lifer.

Super high BBIQ kid, dad played pro ball, plays the right way (not the AAU way).

I think it's a totally reasonable assumption that he can develop into a playmaker or shot creator at the NBA level with his size, fluidity, and IQ (if the team that drafts him develops those skills). That's why I think he's a really good fit in ATL because they need that.

I will disagree with the defensive floor comment. Partially because of the IQ, partially because of the physicals.

He's long and fluid. A guy who you can project out 1-4 as a defender but can be a point of attack guy.

I don't really see Franz. I see more of Mikal Bridges with better defense and less creation.

Literally everything I'm seeing, including numbers, point to pre draft MPJ at Missou. Oversized, hyperathletic spot up wing, whom; if not for injury concerns and Zion, many projected as a number 1 overall in any other draft.

Zero playmaking, not great shot creation..and he isn't even as good as Porter at the same age off the catch n' shoot. Catch n' shoot wings feel like the new altcoins of the NBA. You can literally print them in your basement.

His defensive versatility is intriguing, but again...so was MPJ and Dre's heading into the draft.

At the end of the day, without the ability to play make and be a point forward, your utility and upside at the next level are extremely capped. I'd expect this from a guy taken 4-10, not a 1st.

Dudes like this end up fading into obscurity rather quickly. Mpj's just fortunate he has a perennial MVP to hold his jock and provide him wide open looks to his heart's content.

We shall see.

[ninjacookies]

Originally Posted by daeve

There's been some weird kool-aid being passed around re: Sarr. Agreed, i don't get it... seems like it's just a fixation with "omg this tall guy is switchable on d!" and every time I watch a video showing his highlights it's all dunks and very little actual skill being shown. Again, in a draft like this he's for sure a top 5 guy and seems like he'll be picked within the top 2, but I'm not sold on his skillsets outside of being nimble at his height.

? Not sure if Wiseman or Sarr...

Literally half of his highlight reels are comprised of him putting it on the floor, breaking down defenders off the dribble, and hitting the patented Siakam turnaround from 10-13.

If anything, it'd be his ability to finish down low that I'd be afraid of due to lack of girth. But I suppose that's where Good Hair comes in...

I don't think people are realizing the fit, because this is very personnel dependent. A guy like Sarr would probably struggle on a team like Wash that lacks a run n' gun point. Trae having a spry big that can do pnr's but also create misdirections with his ability to handle, to me, is invaluable.

How many ball handling, shot creating 7+ footers are there in the league?

Again, biggest concerns to me are his frame's maturation and ability to bang down low. Looking at tape, he moves exactly like a 3/4, but so did Thon Maker.

I trust Sarr's birth certificate with my life, however.

[jcardstore]

Originally Posted by ninjacookies

Literally everything I'm seeing, including numbers, point to pre draft MPJ at Missou. Oversized, hyperathletic spot up wing, whom; if not for injury concerns and Zion, many projected as a number 1 overall in any other draft.

Zero playmaking, not great shot creation..and he isn't even as good as Porter at the same age off the catch n' shoot. Catch n' shoot wings feel like the new altcoins of the NBA. You can literally print them in your basement.

His defensive versatility is intriguing, but again...so was MPJ and Dre's heading into the draft.

At the end of the day, without the ability to play make and be a point forward, your utility and upside at the next level are extremely capped. I'd expect this from a guy taken 4-10, not a 1st.

Dudes like this end up fading into obscurity rather quickly. Mpj's just fortunate he has a perennial MVP to hold his jock and provide him wide open looks to his heart's content.

We shall see.

FWIW it's worth, you're right about all of this.

The fact that we're even discussing him at 1 potentially shows you how awful this draft really is.

I just dry heaved at the thought of MPJ @ #1. Which btw would be a pretty good outcome for most players

[ninjacookies]

Originally Posted by jcardstore

FWIW it's worth, you're right about all of this.

The fact that we're even discussing him at 1 potentially shows you how awful this draft really is.

I just dry heaved at the thought of MPJ @ #1. Which btw would be a pretty good outcome for most players

I think we can both agree there. This entire draft pool feels like trying to coerce yourself into swiping right during an overnight stay in Anchorage, Alaska.

[daeve]

Originally Posted by ninjacookies

? Not sure if Wiseman or Sarr...

Literally half of his highlight reels are comprised of him putting it on the floor, breaking down defenders off the dribble, and hitting the patented Siakam turnaround from 10-13.

If anything, it'd be his ability to finish down low that I'd be afraid of due to lack of girth. But I suppose that's where Good Hair comes in...

I don't think people are realizing the fit, because this is very personnel dependent. A guy like Sarr would probably struggle on a team like Wash that lacks a run n' gun point. Trae having a spry big that can do pnr's but also create misdirections with his ability to handle, to me, is invaluable.

How many ball handling, shot creating 7+ footers are there in the league?

Again, biggest concerns to me are his frame's maturation and ability to bang down low. Looking at tape, he moves exactly like a 3/4, but so did Thon Maker.

I trust Sarr's birth certificate with my life, however.

Wiseman was known as being extremely raw. Warriors were supposed to develop him and they failed to do so, probably partly on them and partly on Wiseman himself.

And to the bolded, I'm pretty sure Sarr is known to be bad at pnr. Part of the reason given for why Coach Snyder prefers Clingan.

Every time you give Sarr a notch for a skill, it's one I haven't seen much of. I see the defensive floor at least, but offensively to me there isn't much there.

[ninjacookies]

Originally Posted by daeve

Wiseman was known as being extremely raw. Warriors were supposed to develop him and they failed to do so, probably partly on them and partly on Wiseman himself.

And to the bolded, I'm pretty sure Sarr is known to be bad at pnr. Part of the reason given for why Coach Snyder prefers Clingan.

Every time you give Sarr a notch for a skill, it's one I haven't seen much of. I see the defensive floor at least, but offensively to me there isn't much there.

This must be backwards day, because I seriously think you have your Wiseman/Sarr viewing reversed.



They are not even remotely the same player. Wiseman cannot put the ball on the floor or initiate any kind of ISO offense. And he'd turn into stone if you handed him the rock at 23 feet and asked him to do anything.

He was/is the Tyson Chandler archetype minus the bbiq.




Everything about Sarr screams hybrid 4/5. He's a lot more akin to a large wing, which I guess could be viewed as a current negative since he 'plays small.'

But yeah. Nowhere near remotely the same player. One actually has 3 level offensive skills (albeit extremely raw), but the skills are there.


The comps can range from anything from annorexia Bam to welfare KG and everything in between.


You can locate spot up wings til the sun don't shine.

But name me the number of 7+ footers that have the fluidity and mechanics of a 3.


I'll wait.

[drobfan8]

Sarr looks legit to me.

Any young guy balling like that in the NBL aint no joke.

People slept on Lamelo the same way.

Solid league and very tough.

[rms13]

Apparently Mario Hezonja is a free agent to watch this summer according to Marc Stein. Definitely doesn't deserve his own thread and this seemed like the most appropriate thread to post it in. It's funny that a 29 year old who washed out of the NBA after 5 years would be an important free agent to any team. Hard to believe he was once the 5th overall pick

[bradjames12]

Originally Posted by bradjames12

#1 resign Siakam and run it back with a healthy Mathurin

#2 uncertain honestly.. Hali/Siakam recruit a free agent to Indy, but then who does that person take minutes from?

Looks like Siakam resigning is going to happen..
See how the rest of the offseason plays out now

[oldgoldy97]

Funny that Isaiah Collier was listed at 6’5” but turns out to be just over 6’2”.

[mrmojorisin71]

Trade Jalen green and get a consistent scorer at the wing. Utilize Cam as the 6th man and Amen Thompson as a 4/5 when the matchup is right.!

[Chris P]

OKC trading Giddey to chicago for Caruso

[jcardstore]

Originally Posted by Chris P

OKC trading Giddey to chicago for Caruso

Chicago doing Chicago things lol

Not really much to say about this one other than the Thunder are winning the title next year

[Chris P]

Originally Posted by jcardstore

Chicago doing Chicago things lol

Not really much to say about this one other than the Thunder are winning the title next year

Was hoping somehow Dallas could trade for him...but yep great move for OKC

[drobfan8]

Originally Posted by Chris P

OKC trading Giddey to chicago for Caruso

This is a great trade for both teams.

Giddey is much better running the show and will now get to do that.

OKC needed some toughness.

Love it

[yiguiri2002]

Another moronic move by AK. Trading the hardest working guy on a team for a dude who has sex with minors.

As soon as I saw there was a trade with OKC, I knew it was bad. Bad GMs should never trade with Presti or Stevens.

OKC winning it all next season.

[rhigh2390]

Originally Posted by yiguiri2002

Another moronic move by AK. Trading the hardest working guy on a team for a dude who has sex with minors.

As soon as I saw there was a trade with OKC, I knew it was bad. Bad GMs should never trade with Presti or Stevens.

OKC winning it all next season.

Agreed. Loved having Caruso on my team, but glad he will be on a contender. He does so much that isn't reflected in the box score.

[daeve]

Originally Posted by jcardstore

Chicago doing Chicago things lol

Not really much to say about this one other than the Thunder are winning the title next year

I hate how good the Caruso add is for OKC