Skenes to the big leagues

[towerymt]

Originally Posted by rats60

By not over working a young pitcher, it enhances his chances of have a longer career. At age 23 Nolan Ryan threw 131 innings.

And then there are guys like Clemens, 254inn in his age 23 season. And Seaver 251inn, 278inn in age 22, 23 seasons.

Strasburg capped at ~160 in 2012, his age 23 season. He made it to 30.

Tommy Bond hurled 555inn in his age 23 season and he was TOAST by 25.
https://www.baseball-reference.com/p...bondto01.shtml

[hermanotarjeta]

Originally Posted by rats60

Carlton was 27 not 23. By not over working a young pitcher, it enhances his chances of have a longer career. At age 23 Nolan Ryan threw 131 innings. I guess you missed the line where Skenes was second in MLB in innings (now fifth). Everyone is limiting the number of innings their starters throw.

It also enhances their trade value.

[mfw13]

Originally Posted by rats60

Carlton was 27 not 23.

I was referring to how the Phillies handled him during a 97 loss season....he threw 346 innings despite the fact that his team was atrocious.

Skenes shouldn't need to be protected at age 23, especially given that only threw 277 innings over four seasons prior to reaching the majors and was a primarily a position player in high school.

You protect the arms of 18/19/20 year olds....not 23 year-olds with minimal mileage.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by mfw13

I was referring to how the Phillies handled him during a 97 loss season....he threw 346 innings despite the fact that his team was atrocious.

Skenes shouldn't need to be protected at age 23, especially given that only threw 277 innings over four seasons prior to reaching the majors and was a primarily a position player in high school.

You protect the arms of 18/19/20 year olds....not 23 year-olds with minimal mileage.

A pitchers arm is still not fully developed at age 23. Paul Skenes is a generational talent. It is silly to overuse him on a team this bad.

[hermanotarjeta]

Finally got a W for another strong start.

[jhssketchcards]

It’s ironic MLB teams want to protect young pitcher’s arms yet travel ball, USSSA. Little League, Perfect Game etc coaches want their little first round picks churning out seasons of 100+ innings from age 10 up. Throw in the breaking balls, max effort and body stress throwing off an elevated surface that long at that age, no wonder TJs are happening between ages 15-18 more and more.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JRX]

Originally Posted by jhssketchcards

It’s ironic MLB teams want to protect young pitcher’s arms yet travel ball, USSSA. Little League, Perfect Game etc coaches want their little first round picks churning out seasons of 100+ innings from age 10 up. Throw in the breaking balls, max effort and body stress throwing off an elevated surface that long at that age, no wonder TJs are happening between ages 15-18 more and more.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No sport is really meant to be an all year activity unless you're going for the olympics and they never do puff pieces on all the ones that didn't make it because of injuries etc.

[mfw13]

Originally Posted by rats60

A pitchers arm is still not fully developed at age 23. Paul Skenes is a generational talent. It is silly to overuse him on a team this bad.

Not from the Pirates perspective....

- They know he's leaving as a free agent in 4-5 years, or likely even sooner if they trade him.

- They know they're NEVER going to be a contender as long as Nutting owns the team

- They know that he puts fannies in the seats

If your logic is that he should only pitch when the Pirates are contending, then he'd never pitch another inning as a Pirate.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by mfw13

Not from the Pirates perspective....

- They know he's leaving as a free agent in 4-5 years, or likely even sooner if they trade him.

- They know they're NEVER going to be a contender as long as Nutting owns the team

- They know that he puts fannies in the seats

If your logic is that he should only pitch when the Pirates are contending, then he'd never pitch another inning as a Pirate.

Reading is fundamental. I didn't say never use him, I said not overuse him.

The idea of limiting innings is the Pirates idea not Skenes. Bob Nutting got controlling interest of the Pirates in January of 2007, yet the Pirates made the playoffs three years in a row 2013-15. So, they have already been a contender with Nutting as the owner.

[auctionjmm]

He's still 5th in innings pitched, and 70 players have started at least 19 games, so it's not like he's the only one in baseball whose being "protected". Like all things in life, the game is changing. Relief pitchers have more value today than in previous generations. Teams spend fortunes to put together a 7th/8th/9th trio to close out games. It's not a Pirates thing. It's an MLB thing.

[JRX]

If this was the old days, they'd trade him to the Dodgers for around 1B.

[ScooterD]

Originally Posted by auctionjmm

He's still 5th in innings pitched, and 70 players have started at least 19 games, so it's not like he's the only one in baseball whose being "protected". Like all things in life, the game is changing. Relief pitchers have more value today than in previous generations. Teams spend fortunes to put together a 7th/8th/9th trio to close out games. It's not a Pirates thing. It's an MLB thing.

I agree that the game is changing, but I’m not sure if relief pitchers have more value today than at any time before.

Jimmy Konstanty won the NL MVP as a reliever in 1950 - prior to CY awards. Since then, 9 relievers have won the CY: 8 of them from 74-92 (with 3 of them also getting AL MVP simultaneously), and then Gange in 2003.

It’s a little weird to me because the greatest reliever of our generation (Rivera) never won either award. He also never sniffed 200 innings in a season (Marshall in ‘74 - with over 100 appearances that year), but that underlines our agreed point that the game has changed.

[fabiani12333]

Individual relievers are generally less valuable in today's game because they are viewed as mostly interchangeable. Bullpens are viewed as more important, though, as starters are not going as deep into games -- it's all by design, with teams limiting the amount of times a starter faces a lineup.

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by mfw13

Not from the Pirates perspective....

- They know he's leaving as a free agent in 4-5 years, or likely even sooner if they trade him.

- They know they're NEVER going to be a contender as long as Nutting owns the team

- They know that he puts fannies in the seats

If your logic is that he should only pitch when the Pirates are contending, then he'd never pitch another inning as a Pirate.

They are trying to keep him from blowing out his arm -- it's pretty straightforward. He's a gunslinger, and those guys tend to blow out their arms on a regular basis nowadays.

[hermanotarjeta]

Skenesday - hope the pirates can put up enough offense to support their ace today.

[hermanotarjeta]

Skenes with another strong outing and in line for another W.

[solt0131]

Best pitcher in baseball and it's not even close anymore.

[hermanotarjeta]

If he can get above .500 for his W-L, the CYA will be his.

[TBTC Baseball]

Originally Posted by solt0131

Best pitcher in baseball and it's not even close anymore.

Lowest ERA in first 45 career starts, since ER official in both leagues (1913):

1913-17 Ferdie Schupp: 1.64
1914-15 Ernie Shore: 1.78
2024-25 Paul Skenes: 1.89
1913-15 Rube Foster: 1.91
1913-14 Reb Russell: 1.92

h/t
@EliasSports

https://x.com/SlangsOnSports/status/...win-vs-d-backs

[gmarutiak]

Mentioned on the Pirates broadcast today: Skenes is now 14-0 in his career when the Pirates score three or more runs.

[boxbuster7]

Makes zero sense the hobby is fading this guy - Skenes is the best investment there is right now

Lowest ERA in first 45 career starts, since ER official in both leagues (1913):

1913-17 Ferdie Schupp: 1.64
1914-15 Ernie Shore: 1.78
2024-25 Paul Skenes: 1.89
1913-15 Rube Foster: 1.91
1913-14 Reb Russell: 1.92

[hermanotarjeta]

Originally Posted by boxbuster7

Makes zero sense the hobby is fading this guy - Skenes is the best investment there is right now

Lowest ERA in first 45 career starts, since ER official in both leagues (1913):

1913-17 Ferdie Schupp: 1.64
1914-15 Ernie Shore: 1.78
2024-25 Paul Skenes: 1.89
1913-15 Rube Foster: 1.91
1913-14 Reb Russell: 1.92

The Pittsburgh pirates can do that to a guy.

[MiamiMarlinsFan]

Originally Posted by boxbuster7

Makes zero sense the hobby is fading this guy - Skenes is the best investment there is right now

Lowest ERA in first 45 career starts, since ER official in both leagues (1913):

1913-17 Ferdie Schupp: 1.64
1914-15 Ernie Shore: 1.78
2024-25 Paul Skenes: 1.89
1913-15 Rube Foster: 1.91
1913-14 Reb Russell: 1.92

I wish I had a bigger Skenes stash than I do, but I dunno, man, he’s kind of pricy. But maybe I’m just used to collecting bums.

[boxbuster7]

if you think about it you're getting a 30-40% dip from last year and he is putting up just as good if not better stats than his rookie season

[mfw13]

Originally Posted by boxbuster7

Makes zero sense the hobby is fading this guy - Skenes is the best investment there is right now

Lowest ERA in first 45 career starts, since ER official in both leagues (1913):

1913-17 Ferdie Schupp: 1.64
1914-15 Ernie Shore: 1.78
2024-25 Paul Skenes: 1.89
1913-15 Rube Foster: 1.91
1913-14 Reb Russell: 1.92

No pitcher is a good investment....everyone is going to blow out their arm at some point, and many pitchers never come back from that.

Mark Prior, Kerry Wood, Steven Strasburg, and Matt Harvey were all just as "hobby hot" as Skenes when they first came on the scene.