Your 2025 AL MVP will be....?

[atk825]

Judge has really sputtered down the stretch. He only has a .540 OBP in September.

[Mister2Bits]

Originally Posted by atk825

Judge has really sputtered down the stretch. He only has a .540 OBP in September.

In his last 3 games Judge is batting over .550, with 5 hits, 2 home runs and 4 RBIs.

Sputtered?

[SaveMeTheGum]

Originally Posted by fulltritty

Here's another question of value. How valuable is it Judge hitting 19 first inning home runs giving his pitchers an early lead to pitch to?

Interesting how you discount the clutch stats, but want to pump up the first inning stats. It's almost like you're biased.

[JoshMN]

Dear Voter:

There is no clear-cut definition of what Most Valuable means. It is up to the individual voter to decide who was the Most Valuable Player in each league to his team. The MVP need not come from a division winner or other playoff qualifier.

The rules of the voting remain the same as they were written on the first ballot in 1931:

1. Actual value of a player to his team, that is, strength of offense and defense.

2. Number of games played.

3. General character, disposition, loyalty and effort.

4. Former winners are eligible.

5. Members of the committee may vote for more than one member of a team.

You are also urged to give serious consideration to all your selections, from 1 to 10. A 10th-place vote can influence the outcome of an election. You must fill in all 10 places on your ballot. Only regular-season performances are to be taken into consideration.

Keep in mind that all players are eligible for MVP, including pitchers and designated hitters.

[JoshMN]

Number of games played seems very important!

[BoSoxFan1999]

My debit card I usually use for my sports betting accounts is blocked for some reason, but I had 26 bucks in my DK account so I tossed that on Judge winning MVP.

[Mister2Bits]

Originally Posted by JoshMN

Number of games played seems very important!

156 (Cal) vs 149 (Judge)

Not a big enough difference to be that important

[JoshMN]

Originally Posted by Mister2Bits

156 (Cal) vs 149 (Judge)

Not a big enough difference to be that important

Could be a tiebreaker though... if we give Judge offense and Raleigh defense under #1 and consider them equal overall... you gotta give the award to Raleigh based on games and #2 then, right?

The character stuff under #3 is probably equal in most voters' minds, so #2 could be the difference, even if it is small! I definitely see how Raleigh is ahead in the odds now...

[fulltritty]

Originally Posted by SaveMeTheGum

Interesting how you discount the clutch stats, but want to pump up the first inning stats. It's almost like you're biased.

Please show me a post where I dismissed the clutch stats.

I'm not biased, I just don't believe that someone 26th in the AL in hits and batting barely above league average (and batted 3 months under the Mendoza Line) with over 180Ks and with average to maybe slightly above average defense is an MVP over someone crushing that player and the entire league in almost every stat. I would say the same thing if that player was Bobby Witt Jr. or anyone else not on the Yankees if it was them and not Judge doing what Judge is doing.

[blackbears86]

Judge is first in the league in hitting, Raleigh is 101st. Judge is hitting 83 points higher than Raleigh. He's also 2.0 WAR higher. He's higher in OPS and slugging as well as several other categories.


The Yankees are now in first place.


Raleigh has 9 more HR's and 16 more rbi's than Judge. Despite this, Judge still has more total bases than Raleigh. And in 9 less games played.


Raleigh has 54 more at bats this year compared to judge.


Raleigh has had a great year. Judge has had a fantastic year.


Judge= MVP




I don't collect either player. I have some unopened from both years.

[Mister2Bits]

Originally Posted by JoshMN

Could be a tiebreaker though... if we give Judge offense and Raleigh defense under #1 and consider them equal overall... you gotta give the award to Raleigh based on games and #2 then, right?

I just dont see 7 games being that much of a difference in deciding MVP between the two of them. But even if we give that to Cal there are more impactful stats.

HR: Cal (60 vs 51)
RBI: Cal (125 vs 109)
Games / Plate Appearances: Cal (156/692 vs 149/667)
BA: Judge (.330 vs .247)
OBP: Judge (.457 vs .360)
Hits: Judge (175 vs 144)
OBP/SLG/OPS/OPS+: All Judge
Runs Scored: Judge (134 vs 109)
Doubles/Triples: Judge (30/2 vs 23/0)
BB: Judge (123 vs 96)
Strike outs: Judge (157 vs 181)
Total Bases: Judge (362 vs 347)
WAR: Judge (9.2 vs 7.2)
WAA: Judge (7.2 vs 5.1)
oWAR: Judge (9.1 vs 7.7)
dWAR: Cal (-0.7 vs 0.1)
WPA: Judge (5.3 vs 3.9)
Rbat: Judge (79 vs 51)
Rdp: Cal (-1 vs -2)
Rbaser: Judge (-1 vs -2)
Rfield: Judge (1 vs -5)
TOB: Judge (305 vs 249)
Outs: Cal (383 vs 453)
Runs Created: Judge (169 vs 131)
Runs Produced: Judge (192 vs 174)

That's a whole lot of Judge.

[JustinVerlander07]

Originally Posted by blackbears86

Judge is first in the league in hitting, Raleigh is 101st. Judge is hitting 83 points higher than Raleigh. He's also 2.0 WAR higher. He's higher in OPS and slugging as well as several other categories.


The Yankees are now in first place.


Raleigh has 9 more HR's and 16 more rbi's than Judge. Despite this, Judge still has more total bases than Raleigh. And in 9 less games played.


Raleigh has 54 more at bats this year compared to judge.


Raleigh has had a great year. Judge has had a fantastic year.


Judge= MVP




I don't collect either player. I have some unopened from both years.

Raleigh's wRC+ of 162 ranks 3rd in Baseball, not 101st!! You dinosaurs and your batting average need to join us in 2025. It's not 1972 anymore.

Judge has a .8 fWAR advantage also, not 2.0.

[JustinVerlander07]

Also not for nothing, but to those who keep bringing up Raleigh's strikeouts. His 26.2% k-rate is less than 3% higher than Judge (23.5%) Also Ohtani is at 25.6%, Schwarber 26.8% etc

It's 27th highest among qualified hitters (Judge is 50th) It's not really egregious or anything.

[BoSoxFan1999]

Originally Posted by JustinVerlander07

Also not for nothing, but to those who keep bringing up Raleigh's strikeouts. His 26.2% k-rate is less than 3% higher than Judge (23.5%) Also Ohtani is at 25.6%, Schwarber 26.8% etc

It's 27th highest among qualified hitters (Judge is 50th) It's not really egregious or anything.

K rate should be one of the last things MVP voters should be looking at. Lol
Like, if you are seriously looking at K rate to decide your vote, you might as well just flip a coin at that point.

[fulltritty]

Originally Posted by JustinVerlander07

Raleigh's wRC+ of 162 ranks 3rd in Baseball, not 101st!! You dinosaurs and your batting average need to join us in 2025. It's not 1972 anymore.

Judge has a .8 fWAR advantage also, not 2.0.

Baseball fans dig batting average. Chicks dig the long ball.

[JustinVerlander07]

Originally Posted by BoSoxFan1999

K rate should be one of the last things MVP voters should be looking at. Lol
Like, if you are seriously looking at K rate to decide your vote, you might as well just flip a coin at that point.

Oh, for sure. I just keep seeing it brought up enough and don't even understand. Obviously if you don't put balls in play you will lose opportunities to get on base, but his rate doesn't stick out like a sore thumb (Hi Mike Trout!)

If we're talking K-rates, we might as well talk about his ridiculously low BABIP which indicates poor luck, too. Haven't seen that mentioned for some reason

[BoSoxFan1999]

Originally Posted by JustinVerlander07

Oh, for sure. I just keep seeing it brought up enough and don't even understand. Obviously if you don't put balls in play you will lose opportunities to get on base, but his rate doesn't stick out like a sore thumb (Hi Mike Trout!)

If we're talking K-rates, we might as well talk about his ridiculously low BABIP which indicates poor luck, too. Haven't seen that mentioned for some reason

I mean I'm pretty sure Ohtani has one of the worst K-rates in MLB.....obviously not MVP material. lmao

edit: Ohtani's 22nd percentile for K rate, 4th percentile for whiff rate.

[JustinVerlander07]

Originally Posted by fulltritty

Baseball fans dig batting average. Chicks dig the long ball.

Darn, I'm not a Baseball fan then I guess!! Better hitter: Luis Arraez or Cal Raleigh? Arraez a career .316 batting average

This is a test BTW.

[fulltritty]

Originally Posted by JustinVerlander07

Oh, for sure. I just keep seeing it brought up enough and don't even understand. Obviously if you don't put balls in play you will lose opportunities to get on base, but his rate doesn't stick out like a sore thumb (Hi Mike Trout!)

If we're talking K-rates, we might as well talk about his ridiculously low BABIP which indicates poor luck, too. Haven't seen that mentioned for some reason

It's valid because it is quite obvious Cal and Judge are extremely close (in some people's minds) in the MVP vote so you have to look into deeper statistics to determine who truly deserves the award. And again, supposedly Judge's high K amount was held against him in the 2017 MVP voting so it should be held against Cal that he strikes out more than the Judge when people deem them close.

[JRX]

Originally Posted by JustinVerlander07

Raleigh's wRC+ of 162 ranks 3rd in Baseball, not 101st!! You dinosaurs and your batting average need to join us in 2025. It's not 1972 anymore.

Judge has a .8 fWAR advantage also, not 2.0.

It is 3rd and its 41 pts behind judge. There are over 40 players within 41 pts of Cal. I think people really have a hard time grasping how much better Judge has been than anyone else in baseball. We're talking multiple standard deviations removed from the rest of the league.

[blackbears86]

Originally Posted by JustinVerlander07

Raleigh's wRC+ of 162 ranks 3rd in Baseball, not 101st!! You dinosaurs and your batting average need to join us in 2025. It's not 1972 anymore.

Judge has a .8 fWAR advantage also, not 2.0.

Not sure why you are getting so worked up.

I have no skin in this game. To me it's clearly Judge.

[Hollywood42]

Raleigh's BABIP is just a little below his career average. Which is very low compared to the league norm, but he's done that year over year. Explainable by him being a high fly ball, low ground ball rate hitter that gets a bunch of their hits off home runs, and who is very slow to top it off

Originally Posted by JustinVerlander07

Oh, for sure. I just keep seeing it brought up enough and don't even understand. Obviously if you don't put balls in play you will lose opportunities to get on base, but his rate doesn't stick out like a sore thumb (Hi Mike Trout!)

If we're talking K-rates, we might as well talk about his ridiculously low BABIP which indicates poor luck, too. Haven't seen that mentioned for some reason

[BoSoxFan1999]

Originally Posted by fulltritty

It's valid because it is quite obvious Cal and Judge are extremely close (in some people's minds) in the MVP vote so you have to look into deeper statistics to determine who truly deserves the award. And again, supposedly Judge's high K amount was held against him in the 2017 MVP voting so it should be held against Cal that he strikes out more than the Judge when people deem them close.

What evidence do you have that voters held Judge's high K rate in 2017 against him in the MVP vote? I mean aside from your "trust me bro" reasoning?

[fulltritty]

Originally Posted by JustinVerlander07

Darn, I'm not a Baseball fan then I guess!! Better hitter: Luis Arraez or Cal Raleigh? Arraez a career .316 batting average

This is a test BTW.

That was a joke which obviously you don't know how to take.

Your question depends on what you value in your hitter. He has a much better career batting average than Cal (.316 to .226) including a 200 hit season to lead the league and a better on base percentage (.363 to .314). They both have the same exact rOBA. Obviously Cal crushes him in homeruns and RBI's, has better slugging, OPS, OPS+, and has 2 less years in the league. It's hard to compare when they aren't the same type of hitter.

[JustinVerlander07]

Originally Posted by fulltritty

It's valid because it is quite obvious Cal and Judge are extremely close (in some people's minds) in the MVP vote so you have to look into deeper statistics to determine who truly deserves the award. And again, supposedly Judge's high K amount was held against him in the 2017 MVP voting so it should be held against Cal that he strikes out more than the Judge when people deem them close.

I personally don't care about batting average and strikeouts. What I'm seeing from you is 'this was held against my guy 8 years ago so while I disagreed then I'm going to agree with it now because it helps my guys case'. Do I have that right?

Originally Posted by JRX

It is 3rd and its 41 pts behind judge. There are over 40 players within 41 pts of Cal. I think people really have a hard time grasping how much better Judge has been than anyone else in baseball. We're talking multiple standard deviations removed from the rest of the league.

I agree, Judge is clearly the best hitter in Baseball, there is obviously no disputing that. It's disingenious to me to say he (Cal) is the 101st best hitter in Baseball.

Originally Posted by blackbears86

Not sure why you are getting so worked up.

I have no skin in this game. To me it's clearly Judge.

I'm not worked up, this is fun for me.