Will a possible MLB lockout in 2027 matter to you?

[itsbaytime]

Originally Posted by SaveMeTheGum

I'm a capitalist. Competitive imbalance is the nature of the world. I don't think a lot of people outside of (and inside of) these markets want to see the Dbacks play the Rays in the World Series. And it's not always a big market/small market issue. Some owners will do anything to win, and some would just rather milk their cash cow. You can't legislate that. They probably shouldn't put teams in cities that can't/won't compete.

I understand what you are saying, but the teams are not competing in a vacuum. You need 30 teams to support a league, revenues, fanbases, interest, number of players, etc. You can't just have all the teams that don't spend folding because the league would be reduced to like 10 teams and interest nationally would be long gone (with lots of revenue as well). The big market teams still depend on the small market teams even if they don't want to admit that. You can't just have them there to develop and draft players and then lose them to the Dodgers, Yankees and Mets after they get too expensive. People would watch a Dbacks/Rays world series if they had star players. If payrolls wiere all similar then you would start to see more of a star balance around the league and you would know that 1/3 of the league isn't eliminated before the season even begins. MLB has a chance to finally fix this and I hope shortsighted idiots like Bryce Harper don't ruin it for the future of the league.

[anusinha]

Originally Posted by rats60

Most likely scenario is we miss the whole season. The owners want a cap like the other sports. I don't see the small market owners taking less than that. The players are going to fight hard against it.

Small market teams are still making hundreds of millions in profit, no reason to not keep the train going.

[boxbuster7]

If the blue jays win the world series this year I don't think there will be a lockout
if the dodgers do I think there will

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by anusinha

Small market teams are still making hundreds of millions in profit

I believe this to be false.

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by itsbaytime

I understand what you are saying, but the teams are not competing in a vacuum. You need 30 teams to support a league, revenues, fanbases, interest, number of players, etc. You can't just have all the teams that don't spend folding because the league would be reduced to like 10 teams and interest nationally would be long gone (with lots of revenue as well). The big market teams still depend on the small market teams even if they don't want to admit that. You can't just have them there to develop and draft players and then lose them to the Dodgers, Yankees and Mets after they get too expensive. People would watch a Dbacks/Rays world series if they had star players. If payrolls wiere all similar then you would start to see more of a star balance around the league and you would know that 1/3 of the league isn't eliminated before the season even begins. MLB has a chance to finally fix this and I hope shortsighted idiots like Bryce Harper don't ruin it for the future of the league.

I don't know if it makes sense to have all the payrolls be similar in size, but the current difference between the top payrolls and lowest payrolls is ridiculous:

2025 season -- team -- total payroll (does not include CBT penalties; source: Spotrac):

1. Dodgers -- $350,024,106
2. Mets -- $341,803,011
3. Yankees -- $304,091,683
4. Phillies -- $290,240,191
5. Blue Jays -- $255,230,405
...
26. Rays -- $87,629,788
27. Pirates -- $84,423,338
28. White Sox -- $78,510,763
29. A's -- $78,384,241
30. Marlins -- $67,794,627

The Dodgers' total payroll alone (not including CBT penalties) is almost as much as the combined total of 5-lowest payrolls -- $350,024,106 vs $396,742,757.

This not a sustainable system. The MLB and MLBPA are going to need to make big changes to the economics of the sport to ensure smaller-market teams have a fighter's chance to compete against the big market teams.

[JRX]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

I don't know if it makes sense to have all the payrolls be similar in size, but the current difference between the top payrolls and lowest payrolls is ridiculous:

2025 season -- team -- total payroll (does not include CBT penalties; source: Spotrac):

1. Dodgers -- $350,024,106
2. Mets -- $341,803,011
3. Yankees -- $304,091,683
4. Phillies -- $290,240,191
5. Blue Jays -- $255,230,405
...
26. Rays -- $87,629,788
27. Pirates -- $84,423,338
28. White Sox -- $78,510,763
29. A's -- $78,384,241
30. Marlins -- $67,794,627

The Dodgers' total payroll alone (not including CBT penalties) is almost as much as the combined total of 5-lowest payrolls -- $350,024,106 vs $396,742,757.

This not a sustainable system. The MLB and MLBPA are going to need to make big changes to the economics of the sport to ensure smaller-market teams have a fighter's chance to compete against the big market teams.

Its pointless to not include the tax as that's part of the total expenditures. Dodgers are 585, Mets 400 something etc

[carlo16]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

I don't know if it makes sense to have all the payrolls be similar in size, but the current difference between the top payrolls and lowest payrolls is ridiculous:

2025 season -- team -- total payroll (does not include CBT penalties; source: Spotrac):

1. Dodgers -- $350,024,106
2. Mets -- $341,803,011
3. Yankees -- $304,091,683
4. Phillies -- $290,240,191
5. Blue Jays -- $255,230,405
...
26. Rays -- $87,629,788
27. Pirates -- $84,423,338
28. White Sox -- $78,510,763
29. A's -- $78,384,241
30. Marlins -- $67,794,627

The Dodgers' total payroll alone (not including CBT penalties) is almost as much as the combined total of 5-lowest payrolls -- $350,024,106 vs $396,742,757.

This not a sustainable system. The MLB and MLBPA are going to need to make big changes to the economics of the sport to ensure smaller-market teams have a fighter's chance to compete against the big market teams.

Honest question.
Are Miami and Chicago not big markets?

[f2tornado]

Originally Posted by carlo16

Honest question.
Are Miami and Chicago not big markets?

Chicago, yes. It turns out Miami is #18 which actual trails places like Minneapolis, Denver, Tampa, and Orlando based on Nielsen rankings. Only five Furtune 500 companies HQ'd in Miami-FTL and none in the top 100.

A lockout in 2027 would further spoil career stats that were already hampered with the covid season. Makes it harder for a guy like Altuve to get 3000 hits or Schwarber 500 HRs. My hobby within a hobby is tracking those things. It would really dampen my enthusiasm buying newer stuff and would likely put my focus back on retired players.

[carlo16]

Originally Posted by f2tornado

Chicago, yes. It turns out Miami is #18 which actual trails places like Minneapolis, Denver, Tampa, and Orlando based on Nielsen rankings. Only five Furtune 500 companies HQ'd in Miami-FTL and none in the top 100.

A lockout in 2027 would further spoil career stats that were already hampered with the covid season. Makes it harder for a guy like Altuve to get 3000 hits or Schwarber 500 HRs. My hobby within a hobby is tracking those things. It would really dampen my enthusiasm buying newer stuff and would likely put my focus back on retired players.

Can somebody post the payrolls as a percentage of revenue?

[Brady7799]

Originally Posted by boxbuster7

If the blue jays win the world series this year I don't think there will be a lockout
if the dodgers do I think there will

you mean, the second richest owner vs the fifth, and it's not really that close?

i'll let you guess who is #2 in wealth.

[JRX]

Originally Posted by Brady7799

you mean, the second richest owner vs the fifth, and it's not really that close?

i'll let you guess who is #2 in wealth.

The dodgers ownership is a bit confusing. Is Guggenheim a fully separate entity?

[f2tornado]

Originally Posted by carlo16

Can somebody post the payrolls as a percentage of revenue?

One list here.

[MiamiMarlinsFan]

Originally Posted by carlo16

Honest question.
Are Miami and Chicago not big markets?

The Marlins are a small market team in a big market city.

[JustinVerlander07]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

I don't know if it makes sense to have all the payrolls be similar in size, but the current difference between the top payrolls and lowest payrolls is ridiculous:

2025 season -- team -- total payroll (does not include CBT penalties; source: Spotrac):

1. Dodgers -- $350,024,106
2. Mets -- $341,803,011
3. Yankees -- $304,091,683
4. Phillies -- $290,240,191
5. Blue Jays -- $255,230,405
...
26. Rays -- $87,629,788
27. Pirates -- $84,423,338
28. White Sox -- $78,510,763
29. A's -- $78,384,241
30. Marlins -- $67,794,627

The Dodgers' total payroll alone (not including CBT penalties) is almost as much as the combined total of 5-lowest payrolls -- $350,024,106 vs $396,742,757.

This not a sustainable system. The MLB and MLBPA are going to need to make big changes to the economics of the sport to ensure smaller-market teams have a fighter's chance to compete against the big market teams.

The bottom 5 CHOOSE not to spend while making massive profits. Let's address that part, not the teams trying to win.

[JRX]

Originally Posted by JustinVerlander07

The bottom 5 CHOOSE not to spend while making massive profits. Let's address that part, not the teams trying to win.

You're missing the fact that may team's revenue is less than Dodgers payroll. Revenue does also not equal profit. This isn't even accounting 101. Baseball has a revenue problem first and foremost driven primarily by the disparity in tv.

[hxcmilkshake]

Oakland and Miami are large cities with poorly run teams so they then become "small market". It all makes so much sense.

Sent from my SM-S928U using Tapatalk

[JRX]

Originally Posted by hxcmilkshake

Oakland and Miami are large cities with poorly run teams so they then become "small market". It all makes so much sense.

Sent from my SM-S928U using Tapatalk

The Buffalo Bills in no way make as much rev as say the Dallas Cowboys, but they're able to put together a more competitive team because they're run better and due to the way the NFL pools revenue. If the NFL was run like MLB, the Bills would have likely relocated by now.

[JustinVerlander07]

Originally Posted by JRX

You're missing the fact that may team's revenue is less than Dodgers payroll. Revenue does also not equal profit. This isn't even accounting 101. Baseball has a revenue problem first and foremost driven primarily by the disparity in tv.

I'm not saying to spend as much as the Dodgers, I'm saying if you believe the numbers out there, the Marlins brought in $317 million in revenue in 2024 and their 2025 payroll was under $90 million.

Would you say it's fair to say they have a lot more money at their disposal to spend?

[Osfan81]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

I think so, no? Aren't the rights tied up with the CBA?

It'll certainly affect Topps chrome update...no debut patches in 27. They'll only be able to include those form the latter part of '26. Definitely will be watered down.

[JRX]

Originally Posted by JustinVerlander07

I'm not saying to spend as much as the Dodgers, I'm saying if you believe the numbers out there, the Marlins brought in $317 million in revenue in 2024 and their 2025 payroll was under $90 million.

Would you say it's fair to say they have a lot more money at their disposal to spend?

Let's say teams should spend 50% of rev on players. We're talking about 80M more MIA and CHW. So yes some teams aren't spending as much as they should, but its not as low as one would think. Not every team can run at 90% or 70% of revenue on salaries.

[JustinVerlander07]

Originally Posted by JRX

Let's say teams should spend 50% of rev on players. We're talking about 80M more MIA and CHW. So yes some teams aren't spending as much as they should, but its not as low as one would think. Not every team can run at 90% or 70% of revenue on salaries.

Re: bolded part; who is saying they need to? My whole point has been that plenty of teams have plenty of money to spend and they are choosing not to. Over half the league is at about 45% of payroll to revenue percentage for 2024-25, and most of those same teams cry poor when it's simply not true.

And $80 million is a lot more to add to payroll, $80 million would get you say, Mookie Betts, Kevin Gausman, and Seiya Suzuki. For a 79 win team in the Marlins, that gets you in the postseason instead of missing out. They just choose to not spend instead.

[MiamiMarlinsFan]

Originally Posted by hxcmilkshake

Oakland and Miami are large cities with poorly run teams so they then become "small market". It all makes so much sense.

Sent from my SM-S928U using Tapatalk

Correct, although Oakland doesn’t have a team anymore…

[base set]

There was a brand new interview with MLBPA head Tony Clark just last week. He mentioned that the union gets to see (some of?) “the books” now but are strictly not allowed to share any of that information. Maybe though the “gist” of such things will leak from the players a bit, if not the specifics. Otherwise the union line on the next round of CBA sounded unchanged, from Clark at least. The 30 team elections of Union reps might be kinda interesting; don’t know when those will occur. End of Spring Training?

[JRX]

Originally Posted by base set

There was a brand new interview with MLBPA head Tony Clark just last week. He mentioned that the union gets to see (some of?) “the books” now but are strictly not allowed to share any of that information. Maybe though the “gist” of such things will leak from the players a bit, if not the specifics. Otherwise the union line on the next round of CBA sounded unchanged, from Clark at least. The 30 team elections of Union reps might be kinda interesting; don’t know when those will occur. End of Spring Training?

I think the players self interest does not align with making the sport healthier overall. They will push for no cap etc, but the economics of baseball are a mess.

[f2tornado]

Originally Posted by JustinVerlander07

The bottom 5 CHOOSE not to spend while making massive profits. Let's address that part, not the teams trying to win.

Sure, there are some cheap skates on the bottom but only 11 other teams have revenue that matches the Mets payroll and only 3 others for the Dodgers. Cap & floor style solves both issues. Bryce Harper, as much as I like him, can suck it.