8 Players on Contemporary Era HOF ballot announced.

[JustinVerlander07]

Originally Posted by fulltritty

The ability to determine humorous posts died out on these forums long ago.

[jdandns]

Originally Posted by MiamiMarlinsFan

Did Andruw Jones steal your girlfriend or something, man?

He most certainly did not, but they did form an emotional attachment I wasn't always comfortable with.

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

He really only screwed the Dodgers -- he gave the White Sox and Yankees what they paid for:

2010 White Sox: .827 OPS, 19 HR, 328 PA, 1.9 bWAR, $500,000 salary

2011-12 Yankees: .769 OPS, 27 HR, 491 PA, 1.1 bWAR, $3.5 million salary

I'm not sure why the Dodgers thought it was a good idea to pay him $36.2 million after he hit .222/.311/.413 his last season with the Braves. He was already looking pudgy.

This guy gets it. Rafael Furcal had played reasonably well for LA coming over from Atlanta, maybe the Dodgers thought they were getting more of that, at least the work ethic. Anyway, with Freddie Freeman coming over in the years since, most Dodgers fans would probably say all is forgiven with Andruw.

His season with LA with the only year I ever got to watch him up close, and I went to a lot of games that year. Couldn't anyone smile wider than Andruw Jones after striking out. I think he was happiest when he didn't have to run at all.

Frankly, Jones hated the Dodgers to act like that, and therefore he hated America. He stole money, and we should look into getting that back somehow. If you put Andruw Jones in the Hall of Fame, nothing good can happen, it can only bad happen.

[Skipscards]

Originally Posted by sauceboy

I loved Delgado and believe that he should've lasted more than just one year on the ballot, but I don't think he has the numbers to get the nod.

Bonds and Clemens will both eventually get inducted, but next year won't be it.

Kent should be in, no question.

Delgado is likely not going in this round but he does have the numbers to get the nod. If you look at Hall of Fame 1st basemen, he fits right in:

A. .282/.360/.529
B. .270/.374/.515
C. .280/.383/.546
D. .297/.408/.540
E. .284/.377/.509

4 of those are HOFers and one of them is Delgado.

HRs (different order):

A. 493
B. 521
C. 475
D. 473
E. 449

RBIs...all 5 of them have over 1,500 RBIs and fewer than 1,600.

What Delgado lacks is an MVP or a Championship. However, he was fantastic in the Post Season slashing .351/.442/.757 in 10 games. Overall, his career numbers are very similar to the average Hall of Fame 1st baseman. There are just better candidates on this ballot.


The HOFers above are Bagwell, McCovey, McGriff, and Stargell.

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by Skipscards

Delgado is likely not going in this round but he does have the numbers to get the nod. If you look at Hall of Fame 1st basemen, he fits right in:

A. .282/.360/.529
B. .270/.374/.515
C. .280/.383/.546
D. .297/.408/.540
E. .284/.377/.509

4 of those are HOFers and one of them is Delgado.

HRs (different order):

A. 493
B. 521
C. 475
D. 473
E. 449

RBIs...all 5 of them have over 1,500 RBIs and fewer than 1,600.

What Delgado lacks is an MVP or a Championship. However, he was fantastic in the Post Season slashing .351/.442/.757 in 10 games. Overall, his career numbers are very similar to the average Hall of Fame 1st baseman. There are just better candidates on this ballot.


The HOFers above are Bagwell, McCovey, McGriff, and Stargell.

You know this, but I want to point this out:

Bagwell: 149 OPS+
McCovey: 147 OPS+
Stargell: 147 OPS+
McGriff: 134 OPS+

Delgado: 138 OPS+

McGriff was voted in by the contemporary committee. He and Delgado are a tier below the rest.

Bagwell's career mostly overlapped with Delgado's, and he was clearly a better overall player -- a better base-runner and defender.

[mfw13]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

You know this, but I want to point this out:

Bagwell: 149 OPS+
McCovey: 147 OPS+
Stargell: 147 OPS+
McGriff: 134 OPS+

Delgado: 138 OPS+

McGriff was voted in by the contemporary committee. He and Delgado are a tier below the rest.

Bagwell's career mostly overlapped with Delgado's, and he was clearly a better overall player -- a better base-runner and defender.

Delgado also faces the problem that he was a power hitter who played mainly during the steroid era.....he only had two top-5 MVP finishes, only three 5-WAR seasons, had only 14 career SB, and was blow average defensively (-17.2 dWAR). Very similar numbers to McGriff.

Bagwell won an MVP and had 202 career SB.

[TBTC Baseball]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

He and Delgado are a tier below the rest.

Bagwell's career mostly overlapped with Delgado's, and he was clearly a better overall player -- a better base-runner and defender.

Good to know that Ohtani is a "tier below" Mickey Mantle.

[carlo16]

Originally Posted by TBTC Baseball

Good to know that Ohtani is a "tier below" Mickey Mantle.

He’s not???

[TBTC Baseball]

Originally Posted by carlo16

He’s not???

"GOATs" (not my opinion) aren't typically a tier below anyone

[carlo16]

Originally Posted by TBTC Baseball

"GOATs" (not my opinion) aren't typically a tier below anyone

Shohei is incredible and I’m glad I’m alive to watch him but they played baseball before covid.

[Noles939913]

Andruw Jones had to testify in federal court regarding prostitution and also pled guilty to choking and threatening to kill his wife. I’m sure this has to play a factor as to why hes not in.

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by TBTC Baseball

"GOATs" (not my opinion) aren't typically a tier below anyone

Ohtani isn't the modern GOAT just because of his great hitting -- it's the combination of his great hitting and good pitching.

Aaron Judge has been a much better hitter than him:

2021-2025:

Ohtani: .285/.384/.606, .990 OPS, 171 OPS+, 233 HR

Judge: .306/.426/.649, 1.075 OPS, 196 OPS+, 249 HR

[Skipscards]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

You know this, but I want to point this out:

Bagwell: 149 OPS+
McCovey: 147 OPS+
Stargell: 147 OPS+
McGriff: 134 OPS+

Delgado: 138 OPS+

McGriff was voted in by the contemporary committee. He and Delgado are a tier below the rest.

Bagwell's career mostly overlapped with Delgado's, and he was clearly a better overall player -- a better base-runner and defender.

Yep. But here's the thing, OPS+ does not enter into the equation for a Veteran's Committee selection. The Vets Committee has nothing to do with advanced metrics. It is all about narrative and numbers.

Also, a 138 OPS+ is still fantastic. It would probably rank in the middle group of HOF 1st basemen.

I'm not making an argument for or against Delgado. I am pointing out how these guys are reviewed and inducted or kept out. Sometimes it doesn't make any sense. Based on my personal experience, I don't think Delgado makes it this year, but I could see him making it eventually. His numbers are right there with the typical Hall of Fame 1st baseman.

[mfw13]

Originally Posted by Skipscards

Yep. But here's the thing, OPS+ does not enter into the equation for a Veteran's Committee selection. The Vets Committee has nothing to do with advanced metrics. It is all about narrative and numbers.

Or whether you were buddies with any of the guys on the committee

[ironfireman]

I hope Mattingly & Murphy get in - I think the hall hopes so too. Those guys were 80s baseball and this ballot is desgned to get them in. Fernando is the best story but the numbers are kinda ugly. Delgado & Kent both have good numbers but neither were stars. Players aint voting for Bonds & Clemens & Shef

[ReggieBush22]

The fact that Harold Baines got inducted just changed everything going forward.

Ditto with Michael Cooper getting in recently in basketball. Both HOFs are becoming a joke.

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by ironfireman

I hope Mattingly & Murphy get in - I think the hall hopes so too. Those guys were 80s baseball and this ballot is desgned to get them in. Fernando is the best story but the numbers are kinda ugly. Delgado & Kent both have good numbers but neither were stars. Players aint voting for Bonds & Clemens & Shef

Delgado and Kent weren't stars? Maybe not superstars, but definitely stars of the game. I remember both fondly in the late 90s and early 2000s.

[Skipscards]

Originally Posted by mfw13

Or whether you were buddies with any of the guys on the committee

True. That would fall under “narrative”.

[Skipscards]

Originally Posted by ReggieBush22

The fact that Harold Baines got inducted just changed everything going forward.

Ditto with Michael Cooper getting in recently in basketball. Both HOFs are becoming a joke.

False. Baines changed nothing. Baines’ Veterans Committee selection is literally nothing new and he was more qualified than a lot of other HOFers. The real issue with Baines getting in is simply timing. He would have made more sense a couple of decades from now as one of the last from his era. But, meh, good for him for being alive when he got in.

The baseball Hall of Fame remains the most exclusive and difficult Hall to get in.

[ReggieBush22]

Originally Posted by Skipscards

False. Baines changed nothing. Baines’ Veterans Committee selection is literally nothing new and he was more qualified than a lot of other HOFers. The real issue with Baines getting in is simply timing. He would have made more sense a couple of decades from now as one of the last from his era. But, meh, good for him for being alive when he got in.

The baseball Hall of Fame remains the most exclusive and difficult Hall to get in.

Yeah, I had this discussion with you before so no point in doing it again. We'll leave it at that.

[Skipscards]

Originally Posted by ReggieBush22

Yeah, I had this discussion with you before so no point in doing it again. We'll leave it at that.

Fair enough.

[fulltritty]

MLB Hall of Fame: Breaking down 2025 contemporary era ballot

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/...ot-cooperstown

[MtnAg08]

Originally Posted by fulltritty

MLB Hall of Fame: Breaking down 2025 contemporary era ballot

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/...ot-cooperstown

I'd never really thought about it until reading that article but it is true...the veteran's ballot, as a whole, is much stronger than the BBWAA ballot this year. I'm not sure that has ever been the case before.

Obviously that is because of steroids but it is still crazy to think about. Basically you have three slam dunks on the Vets being held out due to steroids while there are only two on the BBWAA. After that I would say the borderline candidates on the Vets are stronger than those on the BBWAA.

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by MtnAg08

I'd never really thought about it until reading that article but it is true...the veteran's ballot, as a whole, is much stronger than the BBWAA ballot this year. I'm not sure that has ever been the case before.

Obviously that is because of steroids but it is still crazy to think about. Basically you have three slam dunks on the Vets being held out due to steroids while there are only two on the BBWAA. After that I would say the borderline candidates on the Vets are stronger than those on the BBWAA.

This will probably be the last time this happens -- the Hall of Fame board changed the eligibility rules for era candidates, making it likely that players like Bonds and Clemens will be permanently ineligible after a few more times being voted on. They need to at least get 4 votes to stay eligible for committee consideration, and they didn't get that many the first time they were voted on.

The era committees are really for players that were overlooked by the writers -- Bonds and Clemens were clearly not overlooked, as they both got 2/3rds of the vote on their final year on the ballot. The Hall of Fame even changed the number of years of eligibility from 10 to 15 years while Bonds and Clemens were on the ballot, making it certain they would never get the votes needed to get elected. The Hall of Fame really doesn't want they guys to get in -- they keep changing the rules to ensure it.

[kingofsnake]

I choose Harold Baines.

[mattglet]

Originally Posted by mfw13

Not sure what your point is.....HOF candidacy's are evaluated based on a player's entire career, not a specific subset of seasons.

I think the real reason is that HOF voters tend to undervalue defense....look at how long it took guys like Andre Dawson (8 Gold Gloves, elected on his 9th ballot), Larry Walker (7 Gold Gloves, elected on his 10th ballot), and Scott Rolen (8 Gold Gloves, elected on his 6th ballot) to get elected. All defensive studs who were also excellent offensive players.

Keith Hernandez (11 Gold Gloves), Mattingly (8 Gold Gloves), Jim Edmonds (8 Gold Gloves), and Dwight Evans (8 Gold Gloves) have never even gotten anywhere close to getting elected despite being defensive studs AND finishing with a career OPS+ over 125.

But it's hard to truly quantify defense, so they resort to insanely subjective awards like Gold Gloves. See: Derek Jeter, Rafael Palmeiro.