AAF and XFL

[commando]

Originally Posted by commando

I think we all knew that these Topps AAF cards wouln't be printed in the same quantities as Topps' past NFL sets... But with that being said, for a nationwide issue these AAF cards are not super easy to find! I understand there are many fewer AAF collectors at this point, and I'm not really talking about what these cards may or may not be worth.

According to the retail Blaster Box, the stated odds of a black 1/1 base card card parallel is 1 per 2,482 retail packs. There are 175 of the 1/1 base cards released. So if we multiply 175 x 2,282, we get 399,350 packs produced by Topps. Each pack contains 10 cards, so the total number of cards produced would be 3,993,500. Divide that number by 175 (the number of cards in a complete set), and you get a total of 22,820 sets produced. Heck, the 1987 Topps Tiffany Baseball set had a print run of 30,000, and the '88 Tiffany set 25,000!

Knowing that hobby boxes were also released, and probably have better odds on the 1/1 cards, these totals may possibly be even lower... And we also know the number would be slightly lower because of insert cards taking the place of some base cards in packs as well. I am strictly using numbers based on the retail blasters. Now, 22,820 cards of each player don't make these rare, but they sure as heck make them much scarcer that your typical national release!

I originally said that you could possibly collate 22,820 of these AAF sets in a perfect world. Now I'm gonna adjust that number WAY lower. I have ordered numerous boxes of this product from multiple places, and it was becoming obvious that there were several double printed base cards. I confirmed my suspicions by ordering and breaking down a full hobby case of 12 boxes (2,880 cards).

Let me say that a 24-pack hobby box usually contains a complete base set of 175 cards, unless an insert bumps a card out. If you want to complete a base set, I would definitely recommend doing so by buying a hobby box. I was able to complete 12 base sets out of the 12-box case. But here's the kicker... I was left with over 650 base card extras, and could not complete a 13th set (I was 13 cards short!) The reason for this is because of 25 double printed cards which are clogging the packs!

Here's a list of the double-print culprits, along with the number of extras I received in my case (these numbers do not reflect the 12 copies used to make sets). Out of the 650 extra base cards I received, a whopping 382 of them are on this list... That means that just 25 cards make up 58% of the extras in a 175-card set!!

1 Trevor Knight RC (15 extras)
6 Randall Goforth RC (18)
15 Lawrence Okoye RC (14)
16 Jeff Luc RC (16)
24 Mekale McKay RC (15)
25 Christian Hackenberg (15)
26 Denard Robinson (13)
46 Orion Stewart RC (15)
47 DeMarcus Ayers (16)
48 Greer Martini RC (15)
68 Marquis Bundy RC (15)
72 JaQuan Gardner RC (14)
85 Luis Perez RC (14)
87 Earl Okine RC (16)
96 Zach Mettenberger (14)
98 Dontez Ford RC (14)
99 Marvin Bracy-Williams RC (17)
103 Garrett Gilbert (14)
111 Mike Bercovici RC (16)
125 Zac Stacy (15)
155 Connor Davis RC (18)
164 Nick Novak (18)
169 Dustin Vaughan RC (15)
174 Trent Richardson (15)
175 Josh Woodrum RC (15)

Anyone who has opened a hobby or blaster box will probably see similar results!

[ILOVEBEER]

Originally Posted by WKUMICHIGANFAN

Frankly these AAF cards will have some value , they aren't overprinted like half of Panini's new stuff is , XFL cards still have some value and these are very much the same.

Eh, I total disagree. AAF will be laughed at for years. I don't see anything from this set having any value. I know there are die-hard college fans but are there really that many to keep value to this stuff? How many cases of this stuff was produced and did Topps have plans to release more? Are those cards printed and just going to sit?

[commando]

The Chiefs just signed the first ex-AAF player, defensive back Keith Reaser. More players will surely follow, and it will be fun to track these guys. Like I mentioned above, I really think less than 20,000 of these Topps AAF sets were printed, and while the cards are not rare, I will say they are surprisingly hard to find in the wild.

There are fans like myself who collect alternate pro football leagues. Add to that the fans who were happy to have a team in Birmingham, San Antonio, etc. and these cards can easily be absorbed in to collections.

[discostu]

Panthers signed Rashad Ross.

No shock that Ross will get another shot at the NFL, let's see what happens this time around.

[majestik101]

Reaser and Ross signed by the NFL.

Meanwhile ol' Johnny Football waits by the phone. Any day now.

[discostu]

Looks like no reunion for Manziel and Cleveland, Garrett Gilbert was signed by the Browns.

[tier1dc]

Originally Posted by WKUMICHIGANFAN

Frankly these AAF cards will have some value , they aren't overprinted like half of Panini's new stuff is , XFL cards still have some value and these are very much the same.

no

[WKUMICHIGANFAN]

Anyone disagreeing with my stance that these cards will hold SOME value are either dense as a fruitcake or just plain ignorant. Collectors collect and these are collectible , they are also not mass produced in mass and also include big names , important people in football besides players , autos , 1/1's etc , so you obviously don't see how these could have SOME value? I also venture to guess these same people think all the AAf merchandise is now worthless? Try buying ANY USFL merch and get back to me....

[hairysasquatch]

Originally Posted by WKUMICHIGANFAN

Anyone disagreeing with my stance that these cards will hold SOME value are either dense as a fruitcake or just plain ignorant. Collectors collect and these are collectible , they are also not mass produced in mass and also include big names , important people in football besides players , autos , 1/1's etc , so you obviously don't see how these could have SOME value? I also venture to guess these same people think all the AAf merchandise is now worthless? Try buying ANY USFL merch and get back to me....

While I don't think AAF stuff will be wholly without value (just mostly), the comparison with the USFL is flawed: apples and oranges.

[Grid]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

1. There’s no breach of contract if the company folds.
2. Do you have proof that payments are overdue? And they are not due payments for future games that aren’t happening because the league folded.
3. They’re not entitled to medical insurance once the league folds.

I’m sure the league contracts were drawn up to account for a scenario where the league folded during the first season. Do you really think the owner would leave himself open to millions of additional liabilities?

I do not have proof that payments are overdue and I hold no copies of the wording in their contract, or any escape clause if the league folded. Then again, I'm not the one that will be suing them, am I ?

You asked on what basis, and I made you a short list. Many things the players can sue for. I am not their lawyer, I'm just giving you possibilities. To assume the players have no grounds for suit is just silly, since you dont know.

Just a snippet from the SI story on this. Many things we dont know.

Players’ and coaches’ employment contracts obligate the AAF to pay them. It’s unknown, however, if those contracts contain clauses that would extinguish the AAF’s legal responsibility to pay in the event the AAF runs out of money. There could thus be debate as to whether the AAF has run out of money or whether Dundon is terminating the league for other reasons.

Even if no such clauses exist, the players and coaches might find the prospect of litigation (or, if the contract instructs, required arbitration) unappealing. Litigation is stressful and time-consuming. The players also do not have a union to represent them and thus would need to take their own initiative.

That hurdle could be overcome to some extent if the players and coaches pursued litigation in a class action (since the attorneys would run the litigation and each player/coach would not need to be actively involved). Even then, AAF investors may be insulated from any litigation if the AAF was created as a limited liability company or similar entity that limits personal exposure of business owners.

[no10pin]

Originally Posted by WKUMICHIGANFAN

Anyone disagreeing with my stance that these cards will hold SOME value are either dense as a fruitcake or just plain ignorant. Collectors collect and these are collectible , they are also not mass produced in mass and also include big names , important people in football besides players , autos , 1/1's etc , so you obviously don't see how these could have SOME value? I also venture to guess these same people think all the AAf merchandise is now worthless? Try buying ANY USFL merch and get back to me....

They might have SOME value, but your definition of SOME and mine are probably different.

You can't compare this to the USFL, because that was an actual NFL competitor (for a brief time) that had players that people cared about, who then went on to HOF NFL careers.

[tier1dc]

Originally Posted by WKUMICHIGANFAN

Anyone disagreeing with my stance that these cards will hold SOME value are either dense as a fruitcake or just plain ignorant. Collectors collect and these are collectible , they are also not mass produced in mass and also include big names , important people in football besides players , autos , 1/1's etc , so you obviously don't see how these could have SOME value? I also venture to guess these same people think all the AAf merchandise is now worthless? Try buying ANY USFL merch and get back to me....

USFL>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>AAF

USFL lasted 3 years and was actually relevant. It had Jim Kelly, Steve Young, Reggie White, Herschel Walker.

'SOME value', yeah okay it will have value of a few bucks with some outliers but cmon. This is crap that will be equal to 1st wave XFL stuff.

Of course it's hard to buy USFL merch, it hasn't been produced since 1986.

[altaeria]

Originally Posted by ILOVEBEER

Eh, I total disagree. AAF will be laughed at for years. I don't see anything from this set having any value. I know there are die-hard college fans but are there really that many to keep value to this stuff? How many cases of this stuff was produced and did Topps have plans to release more? Are those cards printed and just going to sit?

There are actually still people who chase the old XFL memorabilia and autograph cards. The cards with the ball pieces are especially tough to find, and they hold decent value still. I suppose some of the AAF auto cards or parallels might find a similar niche market down the road. Some collectors just appreciate the oddity of alt leagues. The NFL gets so much hype and so much overexposure, it can get kinda stale.

Regarding your question about Topps’ plans to release the remaining inventory- I am very curious to find out what happens in a circumstance like this. Will they dump hobby cases onto the market at half price? Do they unload them all to one distributor for pennies on the dollar? Or will they stubbornly keep them at full price?

[NinjaJohnny]

Have a case of this, didn't get around to actually watching any of the football in time unfortunately. Hey, I like to zig when others zag.

[ILOVEBEER]

Originally Posted by tier1dc

USFL>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>AAF

USFL lasted 3 years and was actually relevant. It had Jim Kelly, Steve Young, Reggie White, Herschel Walker.

'SOME value', yeah okay it will have value of a few bucks with some outliers but cmon. This is crap that will be equal to 1st wave XFL stuff.

Of course it's hard to buy USFL merch, it hasn't been produced since 1986.

Didn't most of those guys go straight from college to the USFL? That's the difference. If Kyler Murray, Saquan Barkley and other college stars chose the AAF instead of the NFL, there would be value. The cards are ugly, a lot of guys already have cards/autos from a few years ago and the rest are low-level college stars that have a small following.

[WKUMICHIGANFAN]

So you guys think I'm directly comparing AAf and USFL? Reading is hard..... but I digress , I am saying AAF merch WILL most likely go up in value and to be a person who does as he says I bought a SLC Stallions mini helmet last night to flip down the road. AAF Topps cards WILL absolutely have value and currently do as well. Go look up what some of those AAF cards sold for and then come back saying they are worthless......I love how no matter what point you wanna make on BO someone has to disagree with it

[hairysasquatch]

Originally Posted by WKUMICHIGANFAN

So you guys think I'm directly comparing AAf and USFL? Reading is hard..... but I digress , I am saying AAF merch WILL most likely go up in value and to be a person who does as he says I bought a SLC Stallions mini helmet last night to flip down the road. AAF Topps cards WILL absolutely have value and currently do as well. Go look up what some of those AAF cards sold for and then come back saying they are worthless......I love how no matter what point you wanna make on BO someone has to disagree with it

Blowout Forum Lesson #67: Those who come here seeking validation of their personal viewpoint are often disappointed.

[WKUMICHIGANFAN]

Originally Posted by hairysasquatch

Blowout Forum Lesson #67: Those who come here seeking validation of their personal viewpoint are often disappointed.

Don't care if people agree , I just think it's funny how someone will argue any old thing no matter what.

[altaeria]

Originally Posted by hairysasquatch

Blowout Forum Lesson #67: Those who come here seeking validation of their personal viewpoint are often disappointed.

Haha, yes. Here, and just about everywhere else on the planet.

[hairysasquatch]

Originally Posted by WKUMICHIGANFAN

Don't care if people agree , I just think it's funny how someone will argue any old thing no matter what.

Physician, heal thyself.

[goodole13]

Originally Posted by WKUMICHIGANFAN

Don't care if people agree , I just think it's funny how someone will argue any old thing no matter what.

If you don’t care if people agree, why argue? You’re the only one coming across as argumentive. You need to grow up and understand that people in this world will have different view points and different opinions than you do. Not everyone is going to agree with your opinion. I know this may be hard for you to comprehend but, at the moment, future AAF values are not available to prove you right or wrong. Hence people are stating their opinions, just like you’re stating your opinion.

[majestik101]

Filed for Chapter 7 Bankruptcy today. Some stunning numbers

The League has around $11,000,000 in assets and around $48,000,000 in liabilities. The liabilities include nearly $10,000,000 in money owed to creditors.


The League at the time of folding, only had $536,000 in the bank and only $78,000 in licenses, franchises and royalties.

[altaeria]

Originally Posted by majestik101

Filed for Chapter 7 Bankruptcy today. Some stunning numbers

The League has around $11,000,000 in assets and around $48,000,000 in liabilities. The liabilities include nearly $10,000,000 in money owed to creditors.


The League at the time of folding, only had $536,000 in the bank and only $78,000 in licenses, franchises and royalties.

What district did they file in? and under what name?

[discostu]

Originally Posted by altaeria

What district did they file in? and under what name?

San Antonio
Legendary Field Exhibitions LLC

[brendanb438]

Originally Posted by WKUMICHIGANFAN

So you guys think I'm directly comparing AAf and USFL? Reading is hard..... but I digress , I am saying AAF merch WILL most likely go up in value and to be a person who does as he says I bought a SLC Stallions mini helmet last night to flip down the road. AAF Topps cards WILL absolutely have value and currently do as well. Go look up what some of those AAF cards sold for and then come back saying they are worthless......I love how no matter what point you wanna make on BO someone has to disagree with it

If you don't mind getting pennies on the dollar for your investments in a league that was mainly NFL scrubs and washouts that didn't even make it a full season thinking that stuff from the AAF will go up in value then go for it. Those folks who lived in cities with the 8 teams and may have even invested some time and money into going to games, getting gear, etc. sure in the hell are not going to be saying to themselves, "man that was a fun few weeks for nothing, let me buy some AAF gear to remember the good times!"