MLB Owners Support Thread - Page 10

VandyCards · 06-09-2020, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CalCub

You're trolling me for trying to call me a troll...I created this thread and am debating him, that's not trolling

thanks for clarifying.

marterburn · 06-09-2020, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Dude, I'm not discussing this with you. Your way of assuming people-think--something-that-they-don't actually-type is just a nonstarter for me...

Art or not art?

Quote:

Originally Posted by CalCub

Then don't respond to my replies to you, including this post right here...not to mention I created this thread, so this is obviously a topic I'm passionate about.

Many on this thread have clearly explained how the players are the ones who are not compromising, yet "fans" like you continue to give the players a free pass, and you wonder why there hasn't been an official deal to restart the season yet....heck seems like you even support the players not participating in the postseason if it doesn't make financial sense to them, yet you bash the owners for not accepting greedy player demands if they don't make business sense to the owners...amazing how you consider yourself a fan...seems like your blind support for the players is your way of feeling like you're a player

VandyCards · 06-09-2020, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marterburn

Art or not art?

Dada.

brewtown107 · 06-09-2020, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VandyCards

I'm not sure about any of that. I don't know that folks would pay current prices to see scabs. Would you? I've gone to the occasional indy ball game, but I didn't pay MLB prices.

I think they're interested in playing. But I do think they are making sure they are adequately compensated for their risk, that service time is taken into account, and that future CBAs aren't one-sided.

Put another way, they may be holding out for more cash because they know ownership is going to be very cheap in FA the next few years.

I would. Many small market teams turn over almost the entire roster about every three seasons or so anyway. Fans don't even know who many of the guys are at the start of a given season. But they figure out someone to root for. Might as well be replacement players. Maybe replacement players would actually appreciate the opportunity to play big league ball. This current group of players sure doesn't.

Edit: to be fair, I do think prices should come down some. But maybe that would happen if there were replacement players. Sure isn't going to happen with this current group that thinks overrated guys like Harper and Machado are worth almost a third of a billion dollars.

marterburn · 06-09-2020, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VandyCards

Dada.

Bahahah. :insert Drax I understand that reference GIF:

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VandyCards · 06-09-2020, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brewtown107

I would. Many small market teams turn over almost the entire roster about every three seasons or so anyway. Fans don't even know who many of the guys are at the start of a given season. But they figure out someone to root for. Might as well be replacement players. Maybe replacement players would actually appreciate the opportunity to play big league ball. This current group of players sure doesn't.

Edit: to be fair, I do think prices should come down some. But maybe that would happen if there were replacement players. Sure isn't going to happen with this current group that thinks overrated guys like Harper and Machado are worth almost a third of a billion dollars.

Harper and Machado are (potentially) overrated, but they are indisputably underpaid relative to the value/revenue they bring their teams.

And turnover in MLB rosters is not nearly the same as replacement players. Your talking guys who bounce between AA and AAA, and only those that aren't prospects. No player who thinks he could reasonably make the bigs in 1-2 years is going to scab. Permanently banned from MLBPA and ostracized in the clubhouse? You're only going to get guys on the way out and guys who have no legitimate ability to make the big leagues.

jhssketchcards · 06-09-2020, 07:34 PM

Here’s how I see it no matter what happens:

Let’s say they agree to 100% salaries for X number of games for the rest of 2020.

Most elite level SP will not pitch at 100% effort since the season will be shortened. Teams that are playoff built will limit innings anyway. So, SP will stand to make the most profit from this. Less innings, less wear and tear sort of thing.
A lot of position players/hitters will try and use last years stats for next years contract negotiations (those that had good or better seasons), but guys who were down in 2019 or didn’t improve will moan and groan about how CO-VID robbed them of building stats and affects market value. We will see stupid contract hold outs IMO.
In the end X team who pays players 100% will get 20-30% quality product on the field (which is about 75% of the league). Why would anyone on the Marlins, Rangers, Tigers, Pirates, Padres, etc want to go all out for a few months? They are getting full pay, no shot at playoffs and will cash it all in to a bigger contract down the road.
I say let’s cut the clutter, have a lottery between the last 4 years playoff teams and seed them into a tourney and let em go. We all know who will contend, and who will enjoy high draft picks next season.

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JustinVerlander07 · 06-09-2020, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhssketchcards

Here’s how I see it no matter what happens:

Let’s say they agree to 100% salaries for X number of games for the rest of 2020.

Most elite level SP will not pitch at 100% effort since the season will be shortened. Teams that are playoff built will limit innings anyway. So, SP will stand to make the most profit from this. Less innings, less wear and tear sort of thing.
A lot of position players/hitters will try and use last years stats for next years contract negotiations (those that had good or better seasons), but guys who were down in 2019 or didn’t improve will moan and groan about how CO-VID robbed them of building stats and affects market value. We will see stupid contract hold outs IMO.
In the end X team who pays players 100% will get 20-30% quality product on the field (which is about 75% of the league). Why would anyone on the Marlins, Rangers, Tigers, Pirates, Padres, etc want to go all out for a few months? They are getting full pay, no shot at playoffs and will cash it all in to a bigger contract down the road.
I say let’s cut the clutter, have a lottery between the last 4 years playoff teams and seed them into a tourney and let em go. We all know who will contend, and who will enjoy high draft picks next season.

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In a shorter season the 'bad' teams have a much better chance at making the postseason. I don't understand your logic on that.

jhssketchcards · 06-09-2020, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustinVerlander07

In a shorter season the 'bad' teams have a much better chance at making the postseason. I don't understand your logic on that.

So you actually believe the Padres have better shot at the playoffs than the Dodgers? D-Backs? Marlins more than the Braves or Phillies?

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JustinVerlander07 · 06-09-2020, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhssketchcards

So you actually believe the Padres have better shot at the playoffs than the Dodgers? D-Backs? Marlins more than the Braves or Phillies?

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In a shorter season compared to 162? Absolutely.

How often do you see a team that isn't good somehow play well for a couple months, or a good team struggle for a couple months?

pewe · 06-09-2020, 08:07 PM

Here is the players’ counter: https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/...anded-playoffs

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rman112 · 06-09-2020, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by actionbryan

I am pro player .

If 2020 is canceled completely , I will move on with my life (like a functioning adult )

When Major League Baseball returns , be it 2021 or later, I will happily watch .

At first, I thought you were a pro baseball player with bad grammar.

jhssketchcards · 06-09-2020, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustinVerlander07

In a shorter season compared to 162? Absolutely.

How often do you see a team that isn't good somehow play well for a couple months, or a good team struggle for a couple months?

In a real season I can see it, but not where urgency matters. If these teams that are built solely for playoffs know they only have a few months instead of 4 months to activate their glutes I don’t see it happening. They can’t afford to come out slow.
That’s why no one fears the Rockies. Playoff teams have rosters with guys that ramp up when they need to (for the most part). They let the bottom feeders have their moments to shine them they slunk back to providing collectors with players that have awesome Bowman Chrome Draft autos.

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bustsomewax · 06-09-2020, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhssketchcards

So you actually believe the Padres have better shot at the playoffs than the Dodgers? D-Backs? Marlins more than the Braves or Phillies?

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You may want to check on the Nats record after 50 games last year.

Stech36 · 06-09-2020, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pewe

Here is the players’ counter: https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/...anded-playoffs

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No concessions. Nothing.

Idiots. Both of them.

VandyCards · 06-09-2020, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stech36

No concessions. Nothing.

Idiots. Both of them.

there were concessions. Owners have yet to.

I guess I'm lucky in that I'm a fan of labor negotiations as well as being a fan of MLB baseball. Less labor than baseball, but there will always be college baseball to scratch that itch.

brewtown107 · 06-09-2020, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VandyCards

Harper and Machado are (potentially) overrated, but they are indisputably underpaid relative to the value/revenue they bring their teams.

Indisputably? Do you even know what that word means?

NeedChapmans · 06-09-2020, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VandyCards

there were concessions. Owners have yet to.

I guess I'm lucky in that I'm a fan of labor negotiations as well as being a fan of MLB baseball. Less labor than baseball, but there will always be college baseball to scratch that itch.

No there are not.

Stech36 · 06-09-2020, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VandyCards

there were concessions. Owners have yet to.

I guess I'm lucky in that I'm a fan of labor negotiations as well as being a fan of MLB baseball. Less labor than baseball, but there will always be college baseball to scratch that itch.

Okay, to be fair, there were some extremely minor concessions. But nothing on salary. No signs that they will negotiate. Even saying 90% salaries with 100% of the postseason is played in full would be something.

VandyCards · 06-09-2020, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stech36

Okay, to be fair, there were some extremely minor concessions. But nothing on salary. No signs that they will negotiate. Even saying 90% salaries with 100% of the postseason is played in full would be something.

why renegotiate a deal on salary that was made 2.5 months ago? These captains of industry don't understand risk analysis very much

VandyCards · 06-09-2020, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brewtown107

Indisputably? Do you even know what that word means?

I do. Do you?

Relative to the financial value they bring the organization as a whole, they are underpaid. Look at any model of the cost of a "win" versus their salary per WAR, not even taking into account merch sales and marketing.

Relative to the value they bring, yanno, the world, obviously they are overpaid. But hey, keep emoji-ing I guess.

base set · 06-09-2020, 09:59 PM

Every time I see this thread title I wonder if an MLB owner just needs a hug.

brewtown107 · 06-09-2020, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VandyCards

I do. Do you?

Relative to the financial value they bring the organization as a whole, they are underpaid. Look at any model of the cost of a "win" versus their salary per WAR, not even taking into account merch sales and marketing.

Relative to the value they bring, yanno, the world, obviously they are overpaid. But hey, keep emoji-ing I guess.

Clearly you haven't been paying any attention to the amount of WAR these two are putting up.

VandyCards · 06-09-2020, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brewtown107

Clearly you haven't been paying any attention to the amount of WAR these two are putting up.

both are at 0.0 in 2020, i think.

jhssketchcards · 06-09-2020, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bustsomewax

You may want to check on the Nats record after 50 games last year.

That’s a fair point. But you are ignoring my point about championship type teams playing with urgency. Washington was a great team that did turn it around when it mattered. All I’m saying is the better teams will find their way to the postseason (what ever form that is) even in a short season.
162 games is a marathon. Most teams do pace themselves and can afford to let April and May be there extended Spring Trainings or work kinks out.
Do you see any team catching fire in a short season and being able to win it all among the lower half of the league? I’d be interested to hear your logic of why

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06-09-2020, 07:34 PM	#232
jhssketchcards Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Louisiana Posts: 11,413 jhssketchcards2012	Here’s how I see it no matter what happens: Let’s say they agree to 100% salaries for X number of games for the rest of 2020. Most elite level SP will not pitch at 100% effort since the season will be shortened. Teams that are playoff built will limit innings anyway. So, SP will stand to make the most profit from this. Less innings, less wear and tear sort of thing. A lot of position players/hitters will try and use last years stats for next years contract negotiations (those that had good or better seasons), but guys who were down in 2019 or didn’t improve will moan and groan about how CO-VID robbed them of building stats and affects market value. We will see stupid contract hold outs IMO. In the end X team who pays players 100% will get 20-30% quality product on the field (which is about 75% of the league). Why would anyone on the Marlins, Rangers, Tigers, Pirates, Padres, etc want to go all out for a few months? They are getting full pay, no shot at playoffs and will cash it all in to a bigger contract down the road. I say let’s cut the clutter, have a lottery between the last 4 years playoff teams and seed them into a tourney and let em go. We all know who will contend, and who will enjoy high draft picks next season. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

06-09-2020, 08:07 PM	#236
pewe Member Join Date: Sep 2018 Posts: 26,641	Here is the players’ counter: https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/...anded-playoffs Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

06-09-2020, 09:59 PM	#247
base set Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: NW Michigan Posts: 9,490	Every time I see this thread title I wonder if an MLB owner just needs a hug.