Skenes to the big leagues

[johnlocke36]

My main takeaway from this thread is people vastly underestimate how good Skenes has the potential to be and how quickly.

Is he likely to have a better career than Kershaw or verlander, of course not. Is he more likely to do that then any pitcher that has come up in last 20 years including Strasburg, yes he is. Does that make him worth current prices, most likely not. Does that mean prospecting pitchers isn’t wildly profitable, also not

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by johnlocke36

My main takeaway from this thread is people vastly underestimate how good Skenes has the potential to be and how quickly.

Is he likely to have a better career than Kershaw or verlander, of course not. Is he more likely to do that then any pitcher that has come up in last 20 years including Strasburg, yes he is. Does that make him worth current prices, most likely not. Does that mean prospecting pitchers isn’t wildly profitable, also not

If he can consistently locate his heater, he'll dominate.

[johnlocke36]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

If he can consistently locate his heater, he'll dominate.

Agree. He threw way to many non competitive pitches in his debut, but can chalk some of that up to nerves etc. If he's more around the plate he will be the best pitcher in baseball this year (outside of Degrom Return).

[JWBlue]

He won't be as good as Strider.

Cole is a good comp, but I don't think he will be as good as him either.

102 MPH is not an issue for hitters if it is not in the right location.

[johnlocke36]

Originally Posted by JWBlue

102 MPH is not an issue for hitters if it is not in the right location.

lol, you realize that before 2023 mlb hitters were hitting .000 lifetime vs middle middle fastballs 102+ right? I think since then there has been like a single and a double

[Scottish Punk]

Originally Posted by JWBlue

He won't be as good as Strider.

Cole is a good comp, but I don't think he will be as good as him either.

102 MPH is not an issue for hitters if it is not in the right location.

I don't know about that, your margin for error goes up quite a bit in triple digits.

[JWBlue]

Hi SIERA was 2.84. That is very encouraging.

[mikejones]

Originally Posted by johnlocke36

Agree. He threw way to many non competitive pitches in his debut, but can chalk some of that up to nerves etc. If he's more around the plate he will be the best pitcher in baseball this year (outside of Degrom Return).

Huh? Best pitcher this season? There's another pitcher on the other team they played today that I'd take over Skenes.

[tyrith]

Originally Posted by johnlocke36

My main takeaway from this thread is people vastly underestimate how good Skenes has the potential to be and how quickly.

Is he likely to have a better career than Kershaw or verlander, of course not. Is he more likely to do that then any pitcher that has come up in last 20 years including Strasburg, yes he is. Does that make him worth current prices, most likely not. Does that mean prospecting pitchers isn’t wildly profitable, also not

The hard part isn't if he can pitch as well as Kershaw/Verlander/Cole. The hard part is if he can do it and be as healthy as those guys. Even Kershaw was a rock through age 27 and got in 150 IP/season until the COVID year, and is getting 120 IP in these years he's struggling with injury. We've seen too many McClanahan/Perez/Bieber/Strider types to take this for granted now.

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by johnlocke36

My main takeaway from this thread is people vastly underestimate how good Skenes has the potential to be and how quickly.

Is he likely to have a better career than Kershaw or verlander, of course not. Is he more likely to do that then any pitcher that has come up in last 20 years including Strasburg, yes he is. Does that make him worth current prices, most likely not. Does that mean prospecting pitchers isn’t wildly profitable, also not

Hunter Greene threw more 100+ mph pitches in his debut than Skenes. He still holds the records for most 100+ mph pitches in a game and ever, I believe. If that's your criteria, not sure why Skenes is more likely than him. And now look. Greene tends to sit at 98-99 and only dials it up to 100+ when he needs to.

[johnlocke36]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

Hunter Greene threw more 100+ mph pitches in his debut than Skenes. He still holds the records for most 100+ mph pitches in a game and ever, I believe. If that's your criteria, not sure why Skenes is more likely than him. And now look. Greene tends to sit at 98-99 and only dials it up to 100+ when he needs to.

Yes. And my take is that’s what’s keeping Hunter Greene from being elite now. If his command was constant but was working 99-102 instead he would be much better


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[mfw13]

Originally Posted by JeremyNick

Victimized on occasion?

I’d love to know when the last time two relievers pitched 17 straight balls and put 4 runs in via walk.

Again, this is why the Baseball forums suck, but at least you walked back the ERA stat.

Stop being pedantic.....obviously the situation that happened to Skenes does not happen very often. Would you have been happier if the reliever had given up a 3-run homer on the first pitch? Or a 2-run double? Or a single and a sac fly?

Relievers allow inherited runners to score all the time....it's part of the game, and a fact of life for starting pitchers.

[mfw13]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

Cole has a good chance to get to 200. After that, it looks incredibly tough. Glad I bought the Scherzer 200 win gamer.

Once they retire and get close to their HOF election years, there is going to be a newfound appreciation for just how good Kershaw, Verlander, and Scherzer have been.

I'm really hoping that they all retire at the same time and all get elected in the same year.

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by mfw13

Stop being pedantic.....obviously the situation that happened to Skenes does not happen very often. Would you have been happier if the reliever had given up a 3-run homer on the first pitch? Or a 2-run double? Or a single and a sac fly?

Relievers allow inherited runners to score all the time....it's part of the game, and a fact of life for starting pitchers.

The crybabies also want to ignore that Nicolas got the first two batters out. Acting like giving up runs is absurd when you inherit two men on and nobody out. Give me a break.

[JeremyNick]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

The crybabies also want to ignore that Nicolas got the first two batters out. Acting like giving up runs is absurd when you inherit two men on and nobody out. Give me a break.

Smooches

Originally Posted by mfw13

Stop being pedantic.....obviously the situation that happened to Skenes does not happen very often. Would you have been happier if the reliever had given up a 3-run homer on the first pitch? Or a 2-run double? Or a single and a sac fly?

Relievers allow inherited runners to score all the time....it's part of the game, and a fact of life for starting pitchers.

Yes let’s bring in a hypothetical situation to try and explain away the actual situation.

It’s not pedantic. If you want to talk about the stats and what happened, don’t cherry pick. Otherwise you argument falls competent apart. Which is what happened.

[mfw13]

Originally Posted by JeremyNick

If you want to talk about the stats and what happened, don’t cherry pick.

Ummmm....you're the one trying to argue that Skenes last two earned runs shouldn't be counted against him since they were allowed by relievers after he left the game.....that's pretty much the definition of cherry picking....

[cardsin47]

Originally Posted by JeremyNick

It’s not pedantic.

Word of the Day:

pedantic


pe·dan·tic
adjective
of or like a pedant.
"many of the essays are long, dense, and too pedantic to hold great appeal"

.

[JeremyNick]

Originally Posted by mfw13

Ummmm....you're the one trying to argue that Skenes last two earned runs shouldn't be counted against him since they were allowed by relievers after he left the game.....that's pretty much the definition of cherry picking....

Please quote where I said that.

I’ll be waiting.

[cardsin47]

Originally Posted by JeremyNick

Please quote where I said that.

I’ll be waiting.

[mikejones]

Originally Posted by JeremyNick

Please quote where I said that.

I’ll be waiting.

Mfw13 can do for days.

[JeremyNick]

Originally Posted by mikejones

Mfw13 can do for days.

Well we can pick it up when he shows where he I said that.

Otherwise he’s just pulling stuff out of his stathole.

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by johnlocke36

Yes. And my take is that’s what’s keeping Hunter Greene from being elite now. If his command was constant but was working 99-102 instead he would be much better


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My point was that Greene did what Skenes did only better just 2 years ago. More 100+ mph pitches, higher top velocity. You said Skenes was more likely to have a better career than Kershaw or Verlander than anyone in the last 20 years based on his velocity. But Greene had the same velocity, and more often.

Don't get hung up on where Greene is now (other than to show that Skenes could be there as well). Just looking at the beginning of their careers, Greene was more likely at the time of his debut to have a better career than Kershaw or Verlander than Skenes. So I'm challenging the assertion that Skenes is more likely than anyone in the last 20 years.

[johnlocke36]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

My point was that Greene did what Skenes did only better just 2 years ago. More 100+ mph pitches, higher top velocity. You said Skenes was more likely to have a better career than Kershaw or Verlander than anyone in the last 20 years based on his velocity. But Greene had the same velocity, and more often.
.

No I never said that. I said Skenes more likely then anyone in last 20 years to have better career then those HOF. Yes, this is largely due to his velocity (also a 95 mph splinker Green does not have) but mostly due to his pedigree.

Skenes is coming off perhaps the best college pitching season of all time vs SEC competition. There has simply not been a pitcher in last 20 years with that combo or stuff and production vs elite competition prior to being drafted.

In terms of raw stuff, yes Greene was right there. Also I’m a huge Hunter Greene fan and still think he’ll be one of best in game soon.

If I was only talking about velocity I could pick Ben Joyce or someone. To be fair Chase Burns could be in this same discussion in a few months

[mfw13]

Originally Posted by JeremyNick

Please quote where I said that.

I’ll be waiting.

OK...you stated "I’m wondering if the 17 straight balls, including a batter HBP - by the 2 pitchers who relieved Skenes helped skew those numbers to any extent."

To me that implies that his last two earned runs were mainly the fault of the guys who relieved him, as opposed to being Skenes' fault.

Anyway...not worth arguing over any more.....

[JeremyNick]

Originally Posted by mfw13

OK...you stated "I’m wondering if the 17 straight balls, including a batter HBP - by the 2 pitchers who relieved Skenes helped skew those numbers to any extent."

To me that implies that his last two earned runs were mainly the fault of the guys who relieved him, as opposed to being Skenes' fault.

Anyway...not worth arguing over any more.....

I know I’m being pedantic again but I said “quote where I said that” and it appears you failed mightily at that.

Shocker.