Your 2025 AL MVP will be....?

[fulltritty]

Originally Posted by JustinVerlander07

So if you think Cal deserves MVP it makes you a homer?

The only reason I'd call you a homer is because you are (you're a Yankees/Judge fan). Any person that thinks Judge should win MVP isn't automatically a homer though, as has been mentioned this feels like a relative toss up on who wins and I certainly won't have issue with whoever wins, I just personally think it should be Cal.

No, I was referring to the ones who continuously bring up the platinum defense and positional arguments. We had a DH that played zero defense win the MVP last year. Position and defense apparently don't matter to the writers.

[JustinVerlander07]

Originally Posted by fulltritty

No, I was referring to the ones who continuously bring up the platinum defense and positional arguments. We had a DH that played zero defense win the MVP last year. Position and defense apparently don't matter to the writers.

So you're calling me a homer, who has no affiliation to Cal or the Mariners?

Ohtani won MVP because his offense blew out so much that he brought no defensive value. This is a guy who's argument has to include his position and the value he brings from the position. How is it not relevant?

[jraarmy]

Originally Posted by fulltritty

No, I was referring to the ones who continuously bring up the platinum defense and positional arguments. We had a DH that played zero defense win the MVP last year. Position and defense apparently don't matter to the writers.

Maybe because it was history never had a 50/50 player before.

[Nostalgia]

Originally Posted by JustinVerlander07

So you're calling me a homer, who has no affiliation to Cal or the Mariners?

Ohtani won MVP because his offense blew out so much that he brought no defensive value. This is a guy who's argument has to include his position and the value he brings from the position. How is it not relevant?

You seem to hate the Yankees, and by extension, Judge.

[SaveMeTheGum]

Originally Posted by jraarmy

Let’s see that bet slip! How much you put down?

$0 because I have Cal. Seems like easy money for all the Yankees fans in here.

[jetershelmet]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

I mean, it's called the Most Valuable Player award -- the name of the award or the voting instructions imply nothing about the historical importance of the selection.

Mark McGwire didn't even win MVP in 1998 when he shattered the single-season home run record.

I think the inconsistency showed by the voters over the years has confused fans (including myself) on what the MVP award really is. Is it for the best player and contributor for one of the best teams or is it for the position player who has the best counting stats in all of MLB? Perhaps if the Hank Aaron award was marketed better, people wouldn't get so worked up about the best hitter not getting it every year.

Even as a Yankees fan, I would vote for Cal for being a much integral part of leading the M's win their first division title in 24 years. And the 60HRs simply can't be ignored.

People often forget that RP like Eckersley and Hernandez won MVP for the same reasons.

If Judge loses to Cal, it's for the same reason why he beat Ohtani in 2022 when Shohei was 2nd in MVP, 4th in CYA with 34 HR, 15-9 as a pticher with 219K and 2.33 ERA in 166 IP; all because Judge hit 62 HR. If Judge had hit 59 HR, Ohtani would have won in a landslide. Historical achievements obv matter for MVP voters even though what Ohtani did that season probably won't ever be matched even by Ohtani himself.

[fulltritty]

Originally Posted by jraarmy

Maybe because it was history never had a 50/50 player before.

When you change the rules of the game to make it easier to do things than they were in the past, I find it hard to celebrate when you get the outcome you expected. That's not a knock on Ohtani, that's knock on the Commissioner.

[fulltritty]

Originally Posted by JustinVerlander07

So you're calling me a homer, who has no affiliation to Cal or the Mariners?

Ohtani won MVP because his offense blew out so much that he brought no defensive value. This is a guy who's argument has to include his position and the value he brings from the position. How is it not relevant?

If you are one of those who keep bringing up platinum defense as a reason Cal is more valuable than Judge when that notion has been shredded by facts over and over again, then yes.

[GaryPayton]

Mariners win division first time since 2001 +60HR +records and Yankees are WC Judge has great but not 3xcrown worthy stats. Sports writers have a story to write and a reason to vote for Cal that is outside the spreadsheet jockeys pumping Judge.

[JustinVerlander07]

Originally Posted by Nostalgia

You seem to hate the Yankees, and by extension, Judge.

Why do you say I seem to hate the Yankees, or Judge? Because I think Cal should win MVP?

Do I like the Yankees franchise? No, like most fanbases don't. Do I have any opinion on the 2025 Yankees positive or negative? No. Do I dislike Judge? Not at all. Seems like a likable guy.

This is a classic blowout kind of post, props to you.

[fulltritty]

Originally Posted by jetershelmet

I think the inconsistency showed by the voters over the years has confused fans (including myself) on what the MVP award really is. Is it for the best player and contributor for one of the best teams or is it for the position player who has the best counting stats in all of MLB? Perhaps if the Hank Aaron award was marketed better, people wouldn't get so worked up about the best hitter not getting it every year.

Even as a Yankees fan, I would vote for Cal for being a much integral part of leading the M's win their first division title in 24 years. And the 60HRs simply can't be ignored.

People often forget that RP like Eckersley and Hernandez won MVP for the same reasons.

If Judge loses to Cal, it's for the same reason why he beat Ohtani in 2022 when Shohei was 2nd in MVP, 4th in CYA with 34 HR, 15-9 as a pticher with 219K and 2.33 ERA in 166 IP; all because Judge hit 62 HR. If Judge had hit 59 HR, Ohtani would have won in a landslide. Historical achievements obv matter for MVP voters even though what Ohtani did that season probably won't ever be matched even by Ohtani himself.

And again by this argument, Judge should have won over Altuve in 2017 since he broke a 30 year old rookie record that could only be accomplished by a rookie. Ohtani also lead in zero offensive categories even if Judge hadn't hit 62. And the only pitching stat he led in was Ks/9. He was also on a 3rd place team that missed the playoffs. Judge led in 12 offensive stats and his team won the division by 7 games.

And there will never be another Ohtani. MLB long ago gave up on two-way pitchers/batters and doesn't encourage their development at any level. Ohtani is and more than likely always be the only one.

[fulltritty]

Originally Posted by GaryPayton

Mariners win division first time since 2001 +60HR +records and Yankees are WC Judge has great but not 3xcrown worthy stats. Sports writers have a story to write and a reason to vote for Cal that is outside the spreadsheet jockeys pumping Judge.

We don't know that yet. It all comes down to how badly the Rays and Orioles want to play spoiler.

And please don't say Cal's teammate who has 48 homeruns hasn't contributed to them winning the division either.

[jetershelmet]

Originally Posted by fulltritty

And again by this argument, Judge should have won over Altuve in 2017 since he broke a 30 year old rookie record that could only be accomplished by a rookie. Ohtani also lead in zero offensive categories even if Judge hadn't hit 62. And the only pitching stat he led in was Ks/9. He was also on a 3rd place team that missed the playoffs. Judge led in 12 offensive stats and his team won the division by 7 games.

And there will never be another Ohtani. MLB long ago gave up on two-way pitchers/batters and doesn't encourage their development at any level. Ohtani is and more than likely always be the only one.

I only included Ohtani's stats because it shows his ridiculous overall body of work which to me is more impressive than a TC season, especially when he became first modern day player to qualify statistically as both a hitter/batter. I think his 2022 season was the most impressive of his career but that's a separate conversation.

I don't think too many Ohtani fans were upset that Judge won in 2022; certaintly not as upset that Judges fans will be if Cal takes it this season.

[SethMurphy]

Originally Posted by fulltritty

We don't know that yet. It all comes down to how badly the Rays and Orioles want to play spoiler.

And please don't say Cal's teammate who has 48 homeruns hasn't contributed to them winning the division either.

Which Mariner has 48 home runs?

Eugenio Suarez has played in only 49 games as a Mariner, hitting .190/.261/.435/.696 with 12 HR, 27 RBI and 73 Ks

So he isn't the compliment you think he is


Don't make poor arguments and make the rest of the Yankees fans look dumb

[jetershelmet]

Originally Posted by fulltritty

We don't know that yet. It all comes down to how badly the Rays and Orioles want to play spoiler.

And please don't say Cal's teammate who has 48 homeruns hasn't contributed to them winning the division either.

You mean Suarez who has been god awful for the Mariners

[Big35Hurt]

Originally Posted by fulltritty

We don't know that yet. It all comes down to how badly the Rays and Orioles want to play spoiler.

And please don't say Cal's teammate who has 48 homeruns hasn't contributed to them winning the division either.

Normally I would say it's not too late to delete your comment, but it is.

[SaveMeTheGum]

Originally Posted by fulltritty

We don't know that yet. It all comes down to how badly the Rays and Orioles want to play spoiler.

And please don't say Cal's teammate who has 48 homeruns hasn't contributed to them winning the division either.

Hahahahaha -- you just proved you can google numbers but don't actually watch the game!

[kyle1707]

It’s a shame either has to lose

Judge might end up losing 2 MVPs by a hair

Still can’t believe they gave it to altuve over judge

[JustinVerlander07]

Originally Posted by fulltritty

We don't know that yet. It all comes down to how badly the Rays and Orioles want to play spoiler.

And please don't say Cal's teammate who has 48 homeruns hasn't contributed to them winning the division either.

Might as well dunk on you since everyone else is. Only one homer here and it's you! Take your L!!!

[speedyjg13]

Originally Posted by kyle1707

It’s a shame either has to lose

Judge might end up losing 2 MVPs by a hair

Still can’t believe they gave it to altuve over judge

Trout lost two MVPs to Miguel Cabrera.

Judge may lose this one to Cal Raleigh.

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by dantheman514

It was more about the national audience than game situation.

I don't get it -- because it was a national game, it meant a lot more?

You make it seem like it was the World Series or something. It was his 58th home run of the season -- not his 60th. The score was 5-0 and the Mariners already had a win-expectancy of 95%.

The week before on Sunday Night Baseball, Judge hit a home run against the Red Sox -- was that a big moment as well?

[fulltritty]

Originally Posted by SethMurphy

Which Mariner has 48 home runs?

Eugenio Suarez has played in only 49 games as a Mariner, hitting .190/.261/.435/.696 with 12 HR, 27 RBI and 73 Ks

So he isn't the compliment you think he is


Don't make poor arguments and make the rest of the Yankees fans look dumb

Originally Posted by jetershelmet

You mean Suarez who has been god awful for the Mariners

Originally Posted by Big35Hurt

Normally I would say it's not too late to delete your comment, but it is.

Originally Posted by SaveMeTheGum

Hahahahaha -- you just proved you can google numbers but don't actually watch the game!

Originally Posted by JustinVerlander07

Might as well dunk on you since everyone else is. Only one homer here and it's you! Take your L!!!

Yeah, I'll take egg on my face on that one as I just googled his stats since someone on one of these threads actually claimed he was better than Judge when he had 48 and Judge wasn't there yet.

[fulltritty]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

I don't get it -- because it was a national game, it meant a lot more?

You make it seem like it was the World Series or something. It was his 58th home run of the season -- not his 60th. The score was 5-0 and the Mariners already had a win-expectancy of 95%.

The week before on Sunday Night Baseball, Judge hit a home run against the Red Sox -- was that a big moment as well?

Two teams battling for a playoff spot at the time. And didn't the Yankees have a losing record against the Red Sox going into that pivotal series?

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by jetershelmet

I think the inconsistency showed by the voters over the years has confused fans (including myself) on what the MVP award really is. Is it for the best player and contributor for one of the best teams or is it for the position player who has the best counting stats in all of MLB? Perhaps if the Hank Aaron award was marketed better, people wouldn't get so worked up about the best hitter not getting it every year.

Even as a Yankees fan, I would vote for Cal for being a much integral part of leading the M's win their first division title in 24 years. And the 60HRs simply can't be ignored.

People often forget that RP like Eckersley and Hernandez won MVP for the same reasons.

If Judge loses to Cal, it's for the same reason why he beat Ohtani in 2022 when Shohei was 2nd in MVP, 4th in CYA with 34 HR, 15-9 as a pticher with 219K and 2.33 ERA in 166 IP; all because Judge hit 62 HR. If Judge had hit 59 HR, Ohtani would have won in a landslide. Historical achievements obv matter for MVP voters even though what Ohtani did that season probably won't ever be matched even by Ohtani himself.

But the best hitter has consistently won the MVP in recent years:

OPS+ rank of MVP winner:

2024:
Judge: 1
Ohtani: 1

2023:
Ohtani: 1
Acuna: 1

2022:
Judge: 1
Goldschmidt: 1

2021:
Ohtani: 2
Harper: 1

That's 7 of the last 8 MVP winners who led the league in OPS+ (OPS adjusted for league and ballpark). Only Ohtani's dual pitching and hitting season of 2021 was the exception -- and even then he was second in OPS+.

[Tim]

Originally Posted by BoSoxFan1999

There's just such a huge gap with many stats...BA/OBP/SLG/OPS/OPS+/wRC+....even WAR. If Judge had just a slight edge in all those stats, I could see voting for Dumper easily. But there are YUUUUUGE gaps between Judge and Raleigh in many of the most important categories: 80 points for BA, 94 points for OBP, 83 SLG, *177* points OPS, 41 points OPS+.
I mean these are Grand Canyon-esque gaps, not a skip and jump.

I guess it really boils down to how many MVP voters are swayed by the narrative Big D has set having arguably the greatest season ever by a catcher versus a ridiculously good, but not career year for Judge.

This post says it all for me. If a voter thinks 60 HR vs 51 HR is significantly more important than those gaps above, then to me that's crazy. I don't care about the catcher vs (mostly) RF argument either in context of those gaps. The comments about Raleigh leading his team to a division are myopic as Judge has done the same thing.

This is starting to remind me of other past joke MVP selections (Altuve over Judge and Stanton with 2 more HR over Votto when Votto had the much better overall year).