Possible Dak Prescott Auto-Penned Prizm Autos

[Brobocop]

Has his National Treasures RPA cards been sent out? I just saw nothing but redemption cards on eBay. Can you imagine those going out with the auto-pen on them? Wow, just wow. This is why I just don't buy wax anymore outside of a few non-sports releases.

[quickdraw]

Originally Posted by manutdr16

Thanks quickdraw, appreciate your analysis and additional details on auto-pen evidence. In your opinion, are the current tell tale signs of auto-pen usage something that can be easily "remedied" in a newer generation more advanced auto pens?

It would be very difficult to easily have auto-pen signatures that are not detectable because in reality everyone holds the pen at different angles and pressures changing as they make their signature. The auto-pen DOES NOT. Try it yourself as you sign your name in cursive... you can see and feel the subtle changes your fingers make on the pen ... almost impossible to program into an auto-pen for each individual. Here is hoping its never going to be economically feasible (I doubt it ever will be, but never say never!) to make perfect forgeries via this method.

[TimBuckTwo]

Originally Posted by quickdraw

I personally received, via Fed-Ex on Wednesday, my 2 Prism Dual autographs of Dak Prescott/K Dixon from 2016 Prism. I was a bit suspicious as soon as I looked at the two hand signed (HaHa) cards by Dak and it became obvious these cards had been auto-pen signatures. I can state this absolutely as I have 40 years experience as an engineer specializing in failure modes and effects analysis. Careful examination of the signatures at a 10x magnification on a B&L Stereoscope worked well for this analysis. You can just use a magnifying glass to see this Chatter issue I describe below. While unable to photograph my findings at magnification. The results from my visual inspection is fairly simple but long winded and it is as follows:

Both my cards have Dak signatures that are almost identical and exhibit very strong telltale evidence of auto-pen usage. While letter heights and spacing is nearly a perfect match, making NOTE of the wiggles everyone is commenting about is a certain indicator of Auto-pen as this is a phenomenon known as “Pen tip CHATTER”! This principally occurs after the pen tip takes a change in direction/pressure. These direction changes cause the pen tip to wiggle or “chatter” while the pen tip corrects for this directional pressure change.

Note how the CHATTER happens where these directional changes occur. Take the #4 everyone comments about. Well it was a straight smooth vertical line finished by the smooth base horizontal line that started from right to left then turning upward on the angle to complete the 4. This direction change from horizontal that's smooth to the upward angled line finishing the 4 exhibits this CHATTER phenomenon. Also, this “Chatter” is always readily apparent in the formation of the final “t's” and the loops and how each change in direction shows evidence of “pen tip CHATTER” caused by these pen tip directional/pressure changes.

Just my $500 of analysis (not just my 50 cents worth....As I am expensive just like panini cards)... Of these results I am certain and would stake a 40year reputation on my findings and related comments. On looking at other recently released Dak Prism on card autos, I feel 2 or possibly 3 different auto-pen templates (or machine set-up operators) were used on the Dak Prescott Prism autographed cards via redemption, both the single signed (Colored Prisms) or from the Dual autographs set.
It is with only the most subtle differences that some people are trying to use as argument against the auto-pen. Even making an Auto-pen tip replacement due to wear could explain these subtle differences. Please folks, accept the fact we've been screwed, (temporarily I pray), but all we can do is hope Panini satisfactorily resolves this to our benefit. (I CAN HOPE)

GReat analysis.

To add to me rhyme list:

What's the matter with a little pen chatter?

[majestik101]

Originally Posted by Shinypsptitans

This better not have happened in contenders or NT.

There'd be picket lines outside Panini HQ.

[RogerGodahell]

He's quick on the draw

Cuz he's paid $500 an hour

He recognizes tell tale signs

Of things that don't smell like a flower

All this talk about Panini

And the pink Dak autos

I wonder who's to blame

For the crisis in this matter

Could it all just be

A little pen chatter

Or does Dak have the shakes

And just need another bottle ?

[escapegoat]

Originally Posted by oplum29

what a mess this is going to be...if it ever makes it past the boards and into the news, wow.

Will Panini blame Dak? What will Dak say? How about customers that bought Dak autographs, or anybody else for that matter this season.

My mom's new husband has a professional connection with one of the set producers @ espn. I forwarded this thread link to him asking if he could send it to him for me. I know he will, but whether anything comes of it? Prob not but never know

[Siberian13]

Originally Posted by Brobocop

Has his National Treasures RPA cards been sent out? I just saw nothing but redemption cards on eBay. Can you imagine those going out with the auto-pen on them? Wow, just wow. This is why I just don't buy wax anymore outside of a few non-sports releases.

Doesn't matter if it's the highest end set or the lowest end set. Either way it's the same thing.

[cardsharkk]

Dak Prescott positioned to cash in off the field
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...off-the-field/

[manutdr16]

Originally Posted by dirtybirdbreaks

Everyone understands why a person wouldn't want to sign thousands of autographs.

The fact is he agreed to sign the autographs AND guaranteed the authenticity of said autographs. That isn't forgivable at all.

That is my original question: did he agree to sign the autographs only because he has no other choice? Could he have said, "Panini, here's all the money from the auto contract, I don't want to do this anymore."?

I really don't know (that's why I'm asking), but my feeling is that players don't really have a choice not to sign, the fact that autos are available from EVERY big name player, and I can't imagine everybody would want to do this for whatever amount of money.

[cyndeeg3]

Originally Posted by Siberian13

Doesn't matter if it's the highest end set or the lowest end set. Either way it's the same thing.

Yup, same thing = horse manure!

[cking]

Originally Posted by Cavaliercards

Whether or not they blame him, he is still at fault.

I hope you are getting a check from Panini because no matter what they do you stick up for them.

Or we get your usual...Topps and Upper Deck did it too type of answer



Russell Wilson Flawless Game used issues....not to mention other players from that set

Dak Auto pen issues

Mitchell & Ness Laundry Tag issues

Russell Wilson 2012 Contenders Variations /25..............with alot more then 25 copies available

Odell Beckham hold back in National Treasures

Takk autos being faked


NONE OF THIS IS PANINIS FAULT?

[Cavaliercards]

Originally Posted by manutdr16

That is my original question: did he agree to sign the autographs only because he has no other choice? Could he have said, "Panini, here's all the money from the auto contract, I don't want to do this anymore."?

I really don't know (that's why I'm asking), but my feeling is that players don't really have a choice not to sign, the fact that autos are available from EVERY big name player, and I can't imagine everybody would want to do this for whatever amount of money.

Yes he has a choice to sign or not to sign. Some players don't sign, some sign bc it's easy money. He had a lot of redemptions because his fee rose, so he already walked away from the table.

[Cavaliercards]

Originally Posted by cking

I hope you are getting a check from Panini because no matter what they do you stick up for them.

Or we get your usual...Topps and Upper Deck did it too type of answer



Russell Wilson Flawless Game used issues....not to mention other players from that set

Dak Auto pen issues

Mitchell & Ness Laundry Tag issues

Russell Wilson 2012 Contenders Variations /25..............with alot more then 25 copies available

Odell Beckham hold back in National Treasures

Takk autos being faked


NONE OF THIS IS PANINIS FAULT?

Never said this wasn't their fault, but the buck begins and stops with Dak.

Not getting a dime from Panini and yep UD and Topps have had issues too, but that doesn't fit your narrative at all.

Takk and Dak and their witness lied to Panini, that is on the players 100%.

[Cavaliercards]

Originally Posted by Brobocop

Has his National Treasures RPA cards been sent out? I just saw nothing but redemption cards on eBay. Can you imagine those going out with the auto-pen on them? Wow, just wow. This is why I just don't buy wax anymore outside of a few non-sports releases.

Dak is probably going to have a babysitter for a little while when it comes to signing.

[cking]

So has Panini been made aware of this and has there been any response yet?

[Cavaliercards]

Originally Posted by cking

So has Panini been made aware of this and has there been any response yet?

Based on number of tweets directed at them they obviously know, now being a prime traveling holiday weekend I doubt they have had a high level meeting about it yet and I doubt they have had full engagement with Dak, the league licensing office, and NFLPA yet.

[boston12]

Originally Posted by escapegoat

My mom's new husband has a professional connection with one of the set producers @ espn. I forwarded this thread link to him asking if he could send it to him for me. I know he will, but whether anything comes of it? Prob not but never know

He doesn't play for the patriots so they won't do a negative story on him

[cking]

Originally Posted by Cavaliercards

Based on number of tweets directed at them they obviously know, now being a prime traveling holiday weekend I doubt they have had a high level meeting about it yet and I doubt they have had full engagement with Dak, the league licensing office, and NFLPA yet.

I am curious as to what they say. This should be good.

Also wonder how they fix this.

People who sold these copies in the last 6 months are going to get screwed.

[Cavaliercards]

Originally Posted by cking

I am curious as to what they say. This should be good.

Also wonder how they fix this.

People who sold these copies in the last 6 months are going to get screwed.

Easiest way would be recall them all and release a joint statement with Dak and NFL Licensing.

Dak admits he lied, NFL licensing says they hold players to high standard and a punishment will be dealt (a small fine) and Panini agrees to replace them all and provide shipping and something extra to people. Biggest risk is NFL doing nothing which signals to other players no punishment if they do the same.

[cking]

Originally Posted by Cavaliercards

Easiest way would be recall them all and release a joint statement with Dak and NFL Licensing.

Dak admits he lied, NFL licensing says they hold players to high standard and a punishment will be dealt (a small fine) and Panini agrees to replace them all and provide shipping and something extra to people. Biggest risk is NFL doing nothing which signals to other players no punishment if they do the same.

That would be a good start. We shall see.

[RogerGodahell]

Yeah punish him

[Cavaliercards]

Originally Posted by cking

That would be a good start. We shall see.

I expect all we get will be a recall and replacement and an extra for the people returning them with Dak laughing and NFL saying who cares.

[boston12]

Originally Posted by RogerGodahell

Yeah punish him

4 game suspension seems appropriate here

[RogerGodahell]

So Beckett caught him...good job Beckett

http://www.sportscardradio.com/dak-p...topen-scandal/

[seth2720]

Wow this is obviously bad for everyone involved. What a piece of you know what. What a shame it's a top star too. When it's a scrub it's bad enough, but when he's one of the top players that are making products sell..just WOW. I can't imagine how much this could hurt his value moving forward.

I'm surprised that some of you want your fake copies traded out with legit ones? After this, how can anyone collect his cards? How can anyone even look at a card of his going forward? I know I wouldn't be able to. If I had a pending redemption or a fake copy, I'd want an exchange from a different player.