American League MVP - Page 11

cnewby · 08-30-2022, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pewe

He's still got more defensive fWAR than JoRam and Bregman this year

"amazing"!

rngrdanny22 · 08-30-2022, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pewe

QED, other teams with two All Stars, and one gets hurt, are only down one All Star

Ohtani gut punches you twice

... which means his performance and health is more important to the team than a one dimensional player

JRX · 08-30-2022, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rngrdanny22

... which means his performance and health is more important to the team than a one dimensional player

Yeah he's missing the point he's unintentionally making. Ohtani is more valuable than any other player because he's two players. So yes, there's a lot more risk with relying on Ohtani, but it all comes down to what you're paying him. The idea that you can't win when you're getting 8 war for 5m is pathetic. The front office should resign in shame.

pewe · 08-30-2022, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rngrdanny22

... which means his performance and health is more important to the team than a one dimensional player

Exactly, having Ohtani on the team is a riskier move with no added upside vs. alternative.

I hadn't thought of it before, but it might have been why other teams have shied away from competing for Ohtani's services, or replicating them.

zworykin · 08-30-2022, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pewe

QED, other teams with two All Stars, and one gets hurt, are only down one All Star

Ohtani gut punches you twice

Except, again, you can't just say Ohtani has to be paired with guy 26 on the roster. The Angels have Ohtani and Trout, or Ohtani and whoever their next best pitcher is (let's assume we all agree it isn't his fault the team doesn't really have another ace).

Verlander or Yordan gets hurt, the Astros have one All-Star left (from those 2 guys).

Ohtani or Trout gets hurt, the Angels have one or effectively two All-Stars left (from those 2 guys).

JRX · 08-30-2022, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pewe

Exactly, having Ohtani on the team is a riskier move with no added upside vs. alternative.

I hadn't thought of it before, but it might have been why other teams have shied away from competing for Ohtani's services, or replicating them.

Having 1 Ohtani is risky, having 26 two way players is not. The perfect baseball player would also be ambidextrous so they can pitch with on arm and field with the other.

Bcr · 08-30-2022, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zworykin

Except, again, you can't just say Ohtani has to be paired with guy 26 on the roster. The Angels have Ohtani and Trout, or Ohtani and whoever their next best pitcher is (let's assume we all agree it isn't his fault the team doesn't really have another ace).

Verlander or Yordan gets hurt, the Astros have one All-Star left (from those 2 guys).

Ohtani or Trout gets hurt, the Angels have one or effectively two All-Stars left (from those 2 guys).

The argument is slowly becoming that Ohtani is so good at 2 positions that he is now a detriment to the team lol.

rman112 · 08-30-2022, 01:46 PM

Brought this up in the NL thread and decided to look at Judge. This is insane.

JRX · 08-30-2022, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rman112

Brought this up in the NL thread and decided to look at Judge. This is insane.

Outside of the average, he's still a very good player in losses.

rman112 · 08-30-2022, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRX

Outside of the average, he's still a very good player in losses.

I think OBP ends up getting overvalued when a guy gets pitched around like Judge has been recently. And even moreso when the guys behind him are all ice cold.

rngrdanny22 · 08-30-2022, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rman112

I think OBP ends up getting overvalued when a guy gets pitched around like Judge has been recently. And even moreso when the guys behind him are all ice cold.

His K rate is a good bit higher in losses. May be indicative of him pressing and swinging at bad pitches to try and make things happen.

rman112 · 08-30-2022, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rngrdanny22

His K rate is a good bit higher in losses. May be indicative of him pressing and swinging at bad pitches to try and make things happen.

I don't know what it looked like earlier in the year, but he's gotten pitched much more selectively in the last few weeks. You could see where it's definitely affected him for stretches where he's struggled to adjust.

Finest · 08-30-2022, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pewe

Where would they play in the field??? It would be interesting to see each of those guys try to Catch. And Ohtani would be an adventure in the field, that is for sure. Judge in the infield? Maybe he'd be all three outfield positions and 1B and DH?

Ohtani's team might put up historic levels of errors. Judge's team might be serviceable in the field.

5 Judges batting against an Ohtani... I guess they might get good at reading his approach to pitching and really kill him - his wRC+ and HR totals increasing. Ohtani might not get such an advantage, as he's pitched by a whole set of average pitchers - he probably puts up similar numbers to what he does already.

Squinting at it, you might like that Judge team better.

Holy hell. Are you serious with this? Ohtani with his speed, arm, instincts, hand eye coordination and athletic ability would be a gold glove caliber out fielder in all three spots. I would venture to guess he would be a much better infielder as well, being it is he's not a giant like Judge. A team with 5 Ohtanis on it is the World Series favorite every year.

pewe · 08-30-2022, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRX

Having 1 Ohtani is risky, having 26 two way players is not. The perfect baseball player would also be ambidextrous so they can pitch with on arm and field with the other.

Now that would be quite the team

pewe · 08-30-2022, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cnewby

"amazing"!

only three AL 3B with better defensive performance this year. Not too shabby

blackbears86 · 08-30-2022, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pewe

Exactly, having Ohtani on the team is a riskier move with no added upside vs. alternative.

I hadn't thought of it before, but it might have been why other teams have shied away from competing for Ohtani's services, or replicating them.

Pewe: I like you man but this is bizarro thinking. That mind of yours works in mysterious ways.

I can't speak for all the MLB teams, but I'm pretty darn sure almost ALL OF THEM would be licking their chops to have Ohtani on their team. And as far as "replicating" his services, there's a reason why Ohtani is special: because it's DAMN hard to do what he does, otherwise MLB would be littered with two way players.

and by the way, unless Judge falls apart, the MVP is his.

pewe · 08-30-2022, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Finest

Holy hell. Are you serious with this? Ohtani with his speed, arm, instincts, hand eye coordination and athletic ability would be a gold glove caliber out fielder in all three spots. I would venture to guess he would be a much better infielder as well, being it is he's not a giant like Judge. A team with 5 Ohtanis on it is the World Series favorite every year.

So... OF is an easy position now? All it takes is athletic ability???

Reading balls, playing bounces, knowing where to throw it... and that's before we start to think diving, running to the wall, etc. And the variety of stadiums that all have their own quirks.

Could he learn OF? I'd guess "yes". But I don't think we could just stick him out there and anticipate great performance. Mostly because of lack of experience. Not athleticism.

pewe · 08-30-2022, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackbears86

Pewe: I like you man but this is bizarro thinking. That mind of yours works in mysterious ways.

I can't speak for all the MLB teams, but I'm pretty darn sure almost ALL OF THEM would be licking their chops to have Ohtani on their team. And as far as "replicating" his services, there's a reason why Ohtani is special: because it's DAMN hard to do what he does, otherwise MLB would be littered with two way players.

and by the way, unless Judge falls apart, the MVP is his.

Zig when others zag is what I say

blackbears86 · 08-30-2022, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pewe

Zig when others zag is what I say

see you in the sox thread!!!!!!!!!

pewe · 08-30-2022, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackbears86

see you in the sox thread!!!!!!!!!

I'm just justifying the Sale + JD choice of the Red Sox. Much better than Ohtani, right?!?

Trueblue · 08-30-2022, 03:33 PM

I think people need to limit themselves to 5 posts a day in this thread. It will help your health. State your point, try your best to understand the other side of argument, and move on with your lives.

blackbears86 · 08-30-2022, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pewe

I'm just justifying the Sale + JD choice of the Red Sox. Much better than Ohtani, right?!?

Ha Ha!!!! Not this year!

seanbros55 · 08-30-2022, 03:37 PM

The only way to settle this is to have Judge pitch and Ohtani play CF tonight...

Whichever team wins, that player gets the MVP.

fulltritty · 08-30-2022, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seanbros55

The only way to settle this is to have Judge pitch and Ohtani play CF tonight...

Whichever team wins, that player gets the MVP.

I'd rather have Ohtaini pitch so the Yankees are guaranteed a win.

JRX · 08-30-2022, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trueblue

I think people need to limit themselves to 5 posts a day in this thread. It will help your health. State your point, try your best to understand the other side of argument, and move on with your lives.

Sir, this is the internet.

08-30-2022, 01:46 PM	#258
rman112 Banned Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Freedom is Free Again Posts: 40,946	Brought this up in the NL thread and decided to look at Judge. This is insane.

08-30-2022, 03:33 PM	#271
Trueblue Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: socal Posts: 6,501	I think people need to limit themselves to 5 posts a day in this thread. It will help your health. State your point, try your best to understand the other side of argument, and move on with your lives.

08-30-2022, 03:37 PM	#273
seanbros55 Member Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: From the 508 to the 707 Posts: 5,373	The only way to settle this is to have Judge pitch and Ohtani play CF tonight... Whichever team wins, that player gets the MVP.