📈Is the correction over? What cards look attractive with an upside potential?📈

[jcardstore]

Originally Posted by tjforce

Nobody has ever?

Do you think I don't weigh my sports portfolio vs equity in my home, 401K, other investment accounts, etc? I absolutely do and use it as a tool to balance and attempt to get the best ROI I can.

Two perfect examples:

-I once sold a card at $145k profit in over a 6 month span. I didn't just spam it into more cards that dropped when the market did: I took a large chunk of that money, sunk it into paying down my house to get my LTV under 50% on a refinance at 3% (down from the 6% I bought the home at). Yes, I closely examined the opportunity cost in that decision.

-I can use card sales as a short term cash infusion throughout the year when expenses come up (major repairs, unexpected expenses, etc). That allows me to defer a rather significant portion of my paycheck to future years, while getting a generous company match on that portion. These funds are parked in equity investments, and I get to decide how long into the future I want to keep it growing in the market before I get paid out on it. The return on doing this year over year is incredible. And managing my card portfolio helps me in the endeavor.

So just because something is your experience doesn't mean that it's the same experience for absolutely everyone, the way you just told me it was.

Nobody has even, not ever... as in nobody in this thread pumping card prices has mentioned it.

I've made plenty of money on cards. Go back and look at all the prospect threads I created. but I don't delude myself into thinking it's a good investment. I do it for fun and I do it because I'm good at it.

Clearly you are the outlier making millions on cards, batting a thousand and you always win. That's awesome, but "just because something is your experience doesn't mean that it's the same experience for absolutely everyone"

The reality is, a very small percentage of people make money on cards. Most people lose and most cards go down in value. Therefore, it is valid to make a blanket statement that cards are bad investments, and even worse when you compare them to other investments.

The average person is not a multi millionaire like you dropping tens of thousands on cards anytime they feel like it and the 100-1000 tier has been absolutely blasted post covid.

[eastbayak]

Originally Posted by jcardstore

Nobody has even, not ever... as in nobody in this thread pumping card prices has mentioned it.

I've made plenty of money on cards. Go back and look at all the prospect threads I created. but I don't delude myself into thinking it's a good investment. I do it for fun [B]and I do it because I'm good at it. [/B]

Clearly you are the outlier making millions on cards, batting a thousand and you always win. That's awesome, but "just because something is your experience doesn't mean that it's the same experience for absolutely everyone"

The reality is, a very small percentage of people make money on cards. Most people lose and most cards go down in value. Therefore, it is valid to make a blanket statement that cards are bad investments, and even worse when you compare them to other investments.

The average person is not a multi millionaire like you dropping tens of thousands on cards anytime they feel like it and the 100-1000 tier has been absolutely blasted post covid.

I want to believe you but....

Originally Posted by jcardstore View Post
Cavs are winning the title this year. Write it in stone

[Ericc5Bears]

Originally Posted by jcardstore

And the same 3-5 people come in here saying how amazing cards are and how much money they make and how smart they are.

Same as it ever was. Just goes in a circle.

Well it's a sports card forum and a thread about the state of the current sports card market, if it were a stock picking or crypto forum and 3-5 people constantly spammed how awesome sports cards were and how you should put your money into them instead they would (rightfully) get told to stop being annoying.

[tjforce]

Originally Posted by jcardstore

Nobody has even, not ever... as in nobody in this thread pumping card prices has mentioned it.

I've made plenty of money on cards. Go back and look at all the prospect threads I created. but I don't delude myself into thinking it's a good investment. I do it for fun and I do it because I'm good at it.

Clearly you are the outlier making millions on cards, batting a thousand and you always win. That's awesome, but "just because something is your experience doesn't mean that it's the same experience for absolutely everyone"

The reality is, a very small percentage of people make money on cards. Most people lose and most cards go down in value. Therefore, it is valid to make a blanket statement that cards are bad investments, and even worse when you compare them to other investments.

The average person is not a multi millionaire like you dropping tens of thousands on cards anytime they feel like it and the 100-1000 tier has been absolutely blasted post covid.

Thanks for pointing out my typo...

We'll agree to disagree. I don't think cards are any worse investments than day trading stocks.

If you're bad at it, you'll most likely get slaughtered. Very few will get lucky and ride the wave. Those that are good at it or have some sort of special insight or experience could do well.

No need to get personal and make up fabricated details. I enjoy this conversation and enjoy your presence here in general, and you're not something I would get any joy from being combative with. I don't have millions of dollars to blow on this, and I don't bat a thousand.. which are two things that probably go hand in hand together: I'm careful about downside risk, won't put too much into one basket that would risk losing it all, and know when to pull the plug when there's still value to be had but the outlook seems too risky (Ben Simmons, anyone?). And hey, because of that I've missed out on some good gains because I was defensive, but it allowed me to be in a position where I kept from letting it all crash down.

Anyways, glad to have this discussion with you... it's dialogue like this that reminds me of dissenting views and keeps things in perspective.

[Orangejello727]

Originally Posted by jcardstore

Nobody has even, not ever... as in nobody in this thread pumping card prices has mentioned it.

I've made plenty of money on cards. Go back and look at all the prospect threads I created. but I don't delude myself into thinking it's a good investment. I do it for fun and I do it because I'm good at it.

Clearly you are the outlier making millions on cards, batting a thousand and you always win. That's awesome, but "just because something is your experience doesn't mean that it's the same experience for absolutely everyone"

The reality is, a very small percentage of people make money on cards. Most people lose and most cards go down in value. Therefore, it is valid to make a blanket statement that cards are bad investments, and even worse when you compare them to other investments.

The average person is not a multi millionaire like you dropping tens of thousands on cards anytime they feel like it and the 100-1000 tier has been absolutely blasted post covid.

Dont forget to add in the fact that those making a bundle today on their cards were lucky. Lucky to get in at the perfect time during the years of release to get such returns. What set released since covid or even 2018 or 2014 is giving you returns like

All years exquisite
2012 Prizm golds
90s high chase insserts

Outside of maybe Luka, SGA, Mahomie and one other, those types of returns are not even in the same ballpark. There is nothing someone could have bought since 2015 since the cards mentioned above got you $1000 turning into $500k -$1mil. Nothing!! Atleast nothing common enough for any joe to pick up.

Yes it was possible with Brady, Mahomes and Curry in the past decade. Nothing of the sorts in the past 5 yrs tho. Thats pure timing and luck!!

You can make ok and good money. BUt you arent making the kind you could with those mentioned above

[jcardstore]

Originally Posted by tjforce

Thanks for pointing out my typo...

We'll agree to disagree. I don't think cards are any worse investments than day trading stocks.

If you're bad at it, you'll most likely get slaughtered. Very few will get lucky and ride the wave. Those that are good at it or have some sort of special insight or experience could do well.

No need to get personal and make up fabricated details. I enjoy this conversation and enjoy your presence here in general, and you're not something I would get any joy from being combative with. I don't have millions of dollars to blow on this, and I don't bat a thousand.. which are two things that probably go hand in hand together: I'm careful about downside risk, won't put too much into one basket that would risk losing it all, and know when to pull the plug when there's still value to be had but the outlook seems too risky (Ben Simmons, anyone?). And hey, because of that I've missed out on some good gains because I was defensive, but it allowed me to be in a position where I kept from letting it all crash down.

Anyways, glad to have this discussion with you... it's dialogue like this that reminds me of dissenting views and keeps things in perspective.

and let me be clear that I'm not even being sarcastic when I say it's impressive what you've been able to do with cards and I have nothing against you at all on a personal level

I didn't make up anything and you're the one who comes on here to tell everyone how much money you made on cards.

Everyone knows what cards you have because you shared them plenty on here and they're at minimum several hundred thousand worth... The batting 1000 comment was tongue and cheek but every time someone comments on the market not being all peaches and cream you show up to say how great you're doing and how you're still making money on cards.

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by Nomad

I get Jordan, but I really don't get it. His cards leave me cold. While a nice McGrady or Duncan is really cool.

Nomad got the boot? For what?

I'll pour out a cold one in his honor.

[eastbayak]

Originally Posted by Orangejello727

Dont forget to add in the fact that those making a bundle today on their cards were lucky. Lucky to get in at the perfect time during the years of release to get such returns. What set released since covid or even 2018 or 2014 is giving you returns like

All years exquisite
2012 Prizm golds
90s high chase insserts

Outside of maybe Luka, SGA, Mahomie and one other, those types of returns are not even in the same ballpark. There is nothing someone could have bought since 2015 since the cards mentioned above got you $1000 turning into $500k -$1mil. Nothing!! Atleast nothing common enough for any joe to pick up.

Yes it was possible with Brady, Mahomes and Curry in the past decade. Nothing of the sorts in the past 5 yrs tho. Thats pure timing and luck!!

You can make ok and good money. BUt you arent making the kind you could with those mentioned above

Um....Ohtani?

[yiguiri2002]

Are there any cards that have gone 1000x in the last 5-10 years? Outside of unknown rookies that became the best players in the world

[r338]

Originally Posted by Orangejello727

There is nothing someone could have bought since 2015 since the cards mentioned above got you $1000 turning into $500k -$1mil. Nothing!! Atleast nothing common enough for any joe to pick up.

What cards prior to 2015 went from $1K to $500K?

[r338]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

Nomad got the boot? For what?

I'll pour out a cold one in his honor.

No way.

I will miss his focused singular minded posting.

[jcardstore]

Originally Posted by r338

What cards prior to 2015 went from $1K to $500K?

I don’t know football but probably Mahomes.

Certainly Chrome Curry stuff. I bet you could have got a Curry chrome gold RC for $1000 at one point (not sure what that’s even worth now but maybe close)

Lebron RPAs I would guess.

[jcardstore]

Maybe the absolute highest end Jokic or Giannis stuff you might have gotten a 1000x

[yiguiri2002]

Originally Posted by jcardstore

Maybe the absolute highest end Jokic or Giannis stuff you might have gotten a 1000x

Lol, I think it's the opposite. Their base Prizm rookies were 20 or 30 cents at some point if you wanted to buy in bulk.

[eastbayak]

Originally Posted by yiguiri2002

Lol, I think it's the opposite. Their base Prizm rookies were 20 or 30 cents at some point if you wanted to buy in bulk.

Pretty sure I used at least 1 Jokic Prizm base card as a package filler.

[Ericc5Bears]

Originally Posted by r338

What cards prior to 2015 went from $1K to $500K?

2012 prizm golds (lebron,kobe,brady,curry), I see 2 sales for lebron's on cardladder both from december 2012, 1/10 sold for $809 and 4/10 sold for $1035. The most recent lebron sold in late 2023 for for $250,000 but the market for '12 golds is up significantly since then so I would expect the next sale to do much closer to the April 2021 sale of $571,000.

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by tjforce

Oxford Dictionary:

in·vest·ment
/inˈves(t)m(ə)nt/
noun
1. The action or process of investing money for profit or material result.


Wikipedia:
Investment is traditionally defined as the "commitment of resources into something expected to gain value over time"

Do people commit money and resources in sports cards for an expected gain in profit? If so they are using them as in investment vehicle.

Does that necessarily mean that they are good investments? No. But for some people, they are. And yes, there is skill involved. And even if you think that the winners are getting lucky from rising tides, then you have to acknowledge that the people who lose money consistently in cards (repacks, investing in dumb prospects, etc), are doing something wrong, which means there is a skill gap between these people and the ones who can make profitable buys, limit their downside risk, and cash in when the market does well.

Stocks can be investment vehicles.
Bonds can be investment vehicles.
CDs can be investment vehicles.
Savings accounts can be investment vehicles.
Properties can be investment vehicles.
Gold, Silver, and other Commodities can be investment vehicles.
Art works can be investment vehicles.
Bottles of wine can be investment vehicles.

So can sports cards and collectables. It's not really debatable. They fall under the "Alternative Asset" classification.

And yes, I understand and have studied what an investment is. If anyone wants to compare credentials into that background, I'm game for that as well.

Obviously, trading cards can be treated as an investment -- that's been the case for decades. But almost all other forms of mainstream investments either passively generate income or have some kind of utility that gives them an underlining, baseline value.

I think artwork is probably the closest type of investment to trading cards. But at least artwork is based around one-of-a-kind, original pieces that usually require artistic talent and skill, whereas trading cards are just printed media of photographs and digital graphics.

Trading cards are really used as proxies for the athletes, characters or images they depict, and not so much the object itself, unlike artwork or fine wine. Yes, the brands, designs and the amount printed are factors in their value and desirability, but the subject being depicted predominately decides a card's value.

Of course, you also have cards with signatures or memorabilia, which at least makes them more unique and rare. But you can't use a signature or patch for anything -- only admire them.

[tjforce]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

Obviously, trading cards can be treated as an investment -- that's been the case for decades. But almost all other forms of mainstream investments either passively generate income or have some kind of utility that gives them an underlining, baseline value.

I think artwork is probably the closest type of investment to trading cards. But at least artwork is based around one-of-a-kind, original pieces that usually require artistic talent and skill, whereas trading cards are just printed media of photographs and digital graphics.

Trading cards are really used as proxies for the athletes, characters or images they depict, and not so much the object itself, unlike artwork or fine wine. Yes, the brands, designs and the amount printed are factors in their value and desirability, but the subject being depicted predominately decides a card's value.

Of course, you also have cards with signatures or memorabilia, which at least makes them more unique and rare. But you can't use a signature or patch for anything -- only admire them.

Hence the Alternative Assets categorization.

Also, I'm not expert, but there is a market for Artwork Prints. Warhol prints, with multiple copies, sell for millions. Other artists sell well too. Soo there is precedent for this sort of thing.

[drobfan8]

Originally Posted by eastbayak

I want to believe you but....

Originally Posted by jcardstore View Post
Cavs are winning the title this year. Write it in stone

I'm pretty sure he also thought Ben Simmons was gonna be the next LeBron.

Oomph

[Blazed]

The internet's only for highlights

Very few people will post or talk about their losses

That said, the pump that's going on right now is your liquidity exit

So many fools out there signing up for card funding and promoting it on IG (probably asked to) to compete with LLC's buying cards

While I can afford to buy higher end cards, you won't catch me buying here

The only winners here are the card funding businesses, the auction houses, and people who are selling

[Asian62150]

Originally Posted by Blazed

The internet's only for highlights

Very few people will post or talk about their losses

That said, the pump that's going on right now is your liquidity exit

So many fools out there signing up for card funding and promoting it on IG (probably asked to) to compete with LLC's buying cards

While I can afford to buy higher end cards, you won't catch me buying here

The only winners here are the card funding businesses, the auction houses, and people who are selling

Agree with this.

I've been collecting cards for decades now and it's been fun first and a bonus if some of them appreciate.

I've spent good money on certain cards hoping they appreciate. But I've followed 2 rules:

-don't spend money you can not afford to lose (I advise this for any "investment").
-no one goes broke taking a profit

Sure, I've sold stuff waaaaay too early (Curry autos when his ankles were glass) and held stuff too long (I was heavy into James Harden - the baseball one). But when I look back, it's been a fun journey and it's exciting when you can flip something you don't really care about and turn it into a PC item (i.e. flipping some Caitlin Clark Instant cards/autos into a MJ for the PC).

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by Blazed

The internet's only for highlights

Very few people will post or talk about their losses

That said, the pump that's going on right now is your liquidity exit

So many fools out there signing up for card funding and promoting it on IG (probably asked to) to compete with LLC's buying cards

While I can afford to buy higher end cards, you won't catch me buying here

The only winners here are the card funding businesses, the auction houses, and people who are selling

The only collectibles markets you can objectively judge the legitimacy of are the ones in which you are a pure collector of. Anything else is muddied, but the default take that the market will go down is always a good one.

[BoSoxFan1999]

So I have a PSA 9 LeBron white suit rookie card, and I've noticed that sales for it seem to bounce all over the place from say high 300's to low 500's. Just this week, there was a sale for $405 and a few days later a 9 sold for $515. What is the reasoning for this $110 delta between 2 sales of seemingly the same card?
Taking at quick look a the 2 slabs, I don't see any obvious differences between the 2 cards. Chalk it up to simply 2+ people got into a bidding war for the high sale, and not the low one?

edit: and I see a 9 went for $580 a couple weeks ago!

[johnscards]

Originally Posted by BoSoxFan1999

So I have a PSA 9 LeBron white suit rookie card, and I've noticed that sales for it seem to bounce all over the place from say high 300's to low 500's. Just this week, there was a sale for $405 and a few days later a 9 sold for $515. What is the reasoning for this $110 delta between 2 sales of seemingly the same card?
Taking at quick look a the 2 slabs, I don't see any obvious differences between the 2 cards. Chalk it up to simply 2+ people got into a bidding war for the high sale, and not the low one?

edit: and I see a 9 went for $580 a couple weeks ago!

You won't be able to make much sense out of anything right now. You should just sell it while you can (seriously).

[Torro]

Been looking at Kobe comps and it seems that % wise the low/mid end has increased in price a lot more than high end, also PSA 9/8 seem to have increase more than PSA 10s.

All the “investors”, who have been going after the rare Kobe’s and highest grades have been fooled into believing the grade needs to be 10 and the more expensive the better the gains. Collectors just don’t have thousands to compete each other over cards that move quite often, and they are leaning towards more affordable Kobe cards.