Ebay Sales Down

[paulcarlcards]

If you’re trying to earn a living off cards, selling primarily the $1.99 shipped cards just doesn’t work. I’m open to seeing the math behind how it can be made to work but nobody has ever offered that.

I sold a little over $50,000 in primarily $1.99 singles in 2023 and did a video going over the income statement and my model was pretty spot on for the profit per hour (when you disregard the time it takes to build up your listings lol). Here’s the video: https://youtu.be/--QkcaFvEpU?si=9EBEkmPRfdNxEmoz

It worked out to about $13/hour in profit. You can make almost double that just flipping burgers or serving coffee. It’s embarrassing that I fell into that trap and was too stubborn to pivot sooner—I was addicted to chasing the highs of those multi-card orders. If my inventory was free then it doubles to $26/hour in profit, which still isn’t good. I don’t regret it though because I got to learn a ton, build some amazing software/systems, and have a bunch of fun too.

Soon I’ll probably do a YTD income statement for 2024 since being strictly lots and $10+ singles to show the dramatic difference. This discussion has me pretty excited to share those numbers.

Sure, $1.99 shipped cards can work for you if this is a just a side gig or a hobby, but if you’re trying to build a business that you can actually make a living off of then selling the $1.99 shipped cards is a trap. But yeah, having a hobby where you actually make a little money instead of spending it, that’s awesome. If I didn’t have higher ambitions, I’d still be selling my $1.99 shipped singles and having a great time.

If I’m wrong about $1.99 shipped singles and there’s some “secret” I’m missing, I’m desperate to know.

[prospectorgems]

I guess it all depends what you store front looks like. We sell a lot of $1.99 cards and some days our sales can be around $100 (on a bad day) just with low end singles. That's not counting the other cards we have in our store. Not everyone can afford bigger cards so I feel having cheaper cards available allows people that don't have a lot of money to buy cards they can afford.

It's absolutely a time sink though to spend so much time scanning/listing, but if you look at the overall numbers and time spent then it's not as bad as one would think.

You are right though, you can't sustain a business off cheap cards alone because eventually customers will run out of stuff to buy unless you have a crazy variety of different cards people want. Not crappy commons.

[coltsfan23]

Originally Posted by mogwai316

Anyone else still getting charged an International Fee of 1.65% despite being in the International Shipping Program? This was on a card that is going to the eBay authenticator and then to Greece. It was my understanding that the international fee shouldn't be charged if you are in the program, regardless of whether it goes through the authenticator or not.

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Good catch on this one. I checked and I had the same 1.65% fee appear on one of mine from yesterday. This absolutely has to be a very recent development.

Very under-handed, sneaky (yet typical) move from EvilBay. They're really running out of ways to increase EPS, so they have to resort to this.

[jkampis]

Originally Posted by msucollector4

When yall do lots, do yall do them by player, set, team, or all of the above? I have a stack of cards that would probably be better suited for lots but not sure where to start

You could honestly do any of the above. Most of my lots are single-player lots. I’ll also do themed lots like vintage baseball.

[BGT Masters]

I have a question. To everyone who uses promoted listings, do any items sold that were promoted ever sell organically. It would seem the only items that ever sell organically without getting charged the promoted listing fee are ones in which I didn't use promoted listings.

[shrevecity]

Originally Posted by BGT Masters

I have a question. To everyone who uses promoted listings, do any items sold that were promoted ever sell organically. It would seem the only items that ever sell organically without getting charged the promoted listing fee are ones in which I didn't use promoted listings.

I get a few from time to time.

[BGT Masters]

Originally Posted by shrevecity

I get a few from time to time.

Thanks. I was starting to think they changed how they charged it and made every item listed using promoted listing mandatory for the fee, regardless of how it sells.

[mogwai316]

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[msucollector4]

At what point is it worth it to move from a "Starter" store subscription to a "Basic"? I am coming up close to the 250 insertion limit for the month but if there is no real difference between the two I can just wait till they reset.

[shrevecity]

Originally Posted by msucollector4

At what point is it worth it to move from a "Starter" store subscription to a "Basic"? I am coming up close to the 250 insertion limit for the month but if there is no real difference between the two I can just wait till they reset.

Remember as those items relist they also will count as new listings

[msucollector4]

Originally Posted by shrevecity

Remember as those items relist they also will count as new listings

Oh well that makes the decision easy lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mogwai316]

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[premium1981]

Originally Posted by paulcarlcards

If you’re trying to earn a living off cards, selling primarily the $1.99 shipped cards just doesn’t work. I’m open to seeing the math behind how it can be made to work but nobody has ever offered that.

I don't think anyone has ever offered that math because I don't think anyone does this. I don't know of anyone who sells $1.99 only as a full time business. Maybe I'm wrong, because I'm not in any hobby circles, but I do not know of any.

What has been said by a large number of full time sellers, including myself, is that it is an incredible foundation for your business. One that almost never waivers. Everything else seems to have ups, downs, and limitations. I have done pretty much everything, so I have seen the pros and cons to it all. I've already stated what I personally see as a barrier to someone like myself doing your business model. Scale and customer base limitations. There are barriers and risks to prospecting. Same thing with buying in the offseason and selling in spring. Same thing with flipping wax. Same thing with opening wax. Same thing with buying auctions and reselling at BIN. Grading etc.

All of those mentioned work. At least to a degree. But they all have limitations of some sort. Could be money, availability, economy, player performance, etc. Pretty much all of that is eliminated when selling low end cards. About the only thing it takes is time. And if you are efficient, you can make it worth the time put into it, because you know there will be results on the other end. And when doing other options like flipping wax for example, you still have time available. Additionally, since this is only a foundational piece, you don't have to make piles of money off of these. I keep using the same word over and over because it makes the most sense. Foundation. Its there when nothing else is. A "storm" of some sort can come through and destroy some of these other ventures. You could buy wax that tanks in value. You could buy a player that ends up being a pedo. You could tie up too much money in other flips and when they don't move you are cash poor and inventory rich. You could grade a pile of cards and end up with all 8's.

I've rambled on enough, but that is why people do this. You seem like you keep trying to talk people out of it for some reason by saying it isn't worth it. It may not be for you. Keep making your lots if it makes you happy. You will do just fine with them up to a certain point. But I think there is a ceiling with it. The most successful people branch out and have multiple sources of income. Those who survive do so by not having all eggs in a single basket and not tying their success to things outside of their control. $1.99 cards are rock solid and IMO will always be there (pending 10 more years of postage increases).

PS. I will add that I love this hobby. If my bills are paid I don't care if I make $5 an hour. I just happen to make a whole lot more than that. :-)

[shrevecity]

100% above. The more value ypu try to put on time the more stress you are putting into something. If you are happy with your intake then thats all that should matter. The more you let it stress you the more miserable you become and tge more likely you burnout. Which is part of what happened to me late last year. Regardless of if he will admit it or not, at least part of Paul's changes were for the same reason he was starting to feel burned out because he was not meeting what he felt he should be. It's not a bad thing it happens

Baselines are also important every business has a dollar amount they need on a daily basis to stay running. That does not include variable costs like supplies inventory or other. If you don't meet those daily fixed costs you will fail. I know what mine is and that's how much cash inflow I need and don't care if it comes from 1.99 sales or one sale. Nobody is relying on 1.99 sales but they do help hold that baseline

[paulcarlcards]

Originally Posted by premium1981

I don't think anyone has ever offered that math because I don't think anyone does this. I don't know of anyone who sells $1.99 only as a full time business. Maybe I'm wrong, because I'm not in any hobby circles, but I do not know of any.

What has been said by a large number of full time sellers, including myself, is that it is an incredible foundation for your business. One that almost never waivers. Everything else seems to have ups, downs, and limitations. I have done pretty much everything, so I have seen the pros and cons to it all. I've already stated what I personally see as a barrier to someone like myself doing your business model. Scale and customer base limitations. There are barriers and risks to prospecting. Same thing with buying in the offseason and selling in spring. Same thing with flipping wax. Same thing with opening wax. Same thing with buying auctions and reselling at BIN. Grading etc.

All of those mentioned work. At least to a degree. But they all have limitations of some sort. Could be money, availability, economy, player performance, etc. Pretty much all of that is eliminated when selling low end cards. About the only thing it takes is time. And if you are efficient, you can make it worth the time put into it, because you know there will be results on the other end. And when doing other options like flipping wax for example, you still have time available. Additionally, since this is only a foundational piece, you don't have to make piles of money off of these. I keep using the same word over and over because it makes the most sense. Foundation. Its there when nothing else is. A "storm" of some sort can come through and destroy some of these other ventures. You could buy wax that tanks in value. You could buy a player that ends up being a pedo. You could tie up too much money in other flips and when they don't move you are cash poor and inventory rich. You could grade a pile of cards and end up with all 8's.

I've rambled on enough, but that is why people do this. You seem like you keep trying to talk people out of it for some reason by saying it isn't worth it. It may not be for you. Keep making your lots if it makes you happy. You will do just fine with them up to a certain point. But I think there is a ceiling with it. The most successful people branch out and have multiple sources of income. Those who survive do so by not having all eggs in a single basket and not tying their success to things outside of their control. $1.99 cards are rock solid and IMO will always be there (pending 10 more years of postage increases).

PS. I will add that I love this hobby. If my bills are paid I don't care if I make $5 an hour. I just happen to make a whole lot more than that. :-)

I still don’t understand how it can be considered a foundation to a business. It’s like a surgeon saying that he took a weekend job at McDonald’s as the foundation of his income. Instead of wasting time on the rock bottom profit per hour activities, shouldn’t we all be putting more time into everything else you were talking about?

[shrevecity]

Originally Posted by paulcarlcards

I still don’t understand how it can be considered a foundation to a business. It’s like a surgeon saying that he took a weekend job at McDonald’s as the foundation of his income. Instead of wasting time on the rock bottom profit per hour activities, shouldn’t we all be putting more time into everything else you were talking about?

Why are you worried about how others spend time. Premium said he would not care if he made 5.00 an hour he would be happy. He is happy nothing else should matter to you.

I would rather be happy making 5 an hour than miserable making 50

[Dragonman]

I agree with Shreve as whatever makes ppl happy who cares. Obviously nobody is gonna make a living selling 1.99 cards....I personally would never sell, list , ship a 1.99 card and make 40 cents or whatever, as I would rather spent that time with my family, friends other business or whatever. I wouldnt walk to my kitchen for 40 cents but that does not mean others feel the way I do. I have a simple way I go about it....Anything under $10 goes to Comc(Just throw a few hundred cheap cards in a box and done with it),Fees are not that far off....Cards over $10 I either sell on Ebay, also send to Comc, sell at shows or personal sales.....I understand where Paulcarlcards is coming from as there are better options but I would not begrudge anyone for doing whatever they want and I couldnt care less what others do anyway.

[Raleigh504]

Originally Posted by Dragonman

I agree with Shreve as whatever makes ppl happy who cares. Obviously nobody is gonna make a living selling 1.99 cards....I personally would never sell, list , ship a 1.99 card and make 40 cents or whatever, as I would rather spent that time with my family, friends other business or whatever. I wouldnt walk to my kitchen for 40 cents but that does not mean others feel the way I do. I have a simple way I go about it....Anything under $10 goes to Comc(Just throw a few hundred cheap cards in a box and done with it),Fees are not that far off....Cards over $10 I either sell on Ebay, also send to Comc, sell at shows or personal sales.....I understand where Paulcarlcards is coming from as there are better options but I would not begrudge anyone for doing whatever they want and I couldnt care less what others do anyway.

Also people’s 9-5 (saying that this isn’t their job) may be more beneficial than others. I can do my 40 hr work week in about 20 and some weeks even 15. I work from home so have time during the day to list/scan/ship cards. Now as I may be working a different job in a year where I go into the office, I probably will shift my store and may even stop doing it if it becomes too much of a burden on my life. But now it makes sense to do it.

[Crosby 87]

Originally Posted by paulcarlcards

I still don’t understand how it can be considered a foundation to a business. It’s like a surgeon saying that he took a weekend job at McDonald’s as the foundation of his income. Instead of wasting time on the rock bottom profit per hour activities, shouldn’t we all be putting more time into everything else you were talking about?

You're in sales/marketing aren't you?

[Dragonman]

I am not judging anyone as I said before to each his own, but the best advice I got when I started my real company(not sportscards) was from a successful neighbor of my dad. He told me "When you think small you stay small" I always tried to remember that if I caught myself not taking risks or nickel and diming for $40 here or $50 there.

[jamcas997]

Running an EBAY biz is what you make of it. In a month I will be moving to a new job from the one I have done for 10 years. It is less money , but its M-F/8-4, weekends, holidays off and peace of mind. Ebay is a third income for me after the Job and my Military Retirement and VA dis so EBAY sales tanking 2 years ago was a shock, but just not as worried about it now.

I list and keep raising my inventory and have to be content for now that my sales at 1k a month wont get for 3k again until a few things happen and they could be coming is six months.

[premium1981]

Originally Posted by paulcarlcards

I still don’t understand how it can be considered a foundation to a business. It’s like a surgeon saying that he took a weekend job at McDonald’s as the foundation of his income. Instead of wasting time on the rock bottom profit per hour activities, shouldn’t we all be putting more time into everything else you were talking about?

All good my friend, I won't continue to beat the dead horse. I thought I had explained why I like having the foundation. I don't have to worry about dips below a certain point. And I am not limited by the amount of Griffey cards I can bunch together and the amount of buyers only interested in Griffey lots. I feel that has limitations.

I will address the last question you asked though.

"Shouldn't we all be putting more time into everything else you were talking about?"

I put time into most of what I mentioned. But every single one has limits. Lets take cases as an example, because I love buying sealed stuff if the price is right. There are usually 1-3 products a year that I can buy sealed KNOWING that the demand will drive the price up. I buy every single case I can find under whatever price point I give myself. I'm talking a very large amount of money. Doing this, I have never lost a penny. And usually, it pays off in ways you wouldn't imagine. BUT I do not chase bad products, and I do not buy above the price I set myself. There are products that go up and down and all around. But every single year there are a small handful that are gold from the start. Everyone knows it, sees it, and wants it. But it only happens a few times a year. So when those products are not available there is no time that can be put into it. I have to audible to something else. Maybe its grading, or maybe its listing $2-$5 cards, who knows. Depends on the time of year. My point being, even if I can make $20k on a product release, my time is expended at a certain point and no more time can be put into it. And I don't search for "hopefully this works" products. These are home runs from the start. Maybe I have explained it to where you understand what I mean, and maybe not. But I don't just sit back during down times and do nothing. I am a hard worker. I always have been. I will sit down and sort base cards when other people sit down to scroll on their phones. Its just who I am. And having this work ethic has allowed me to be successful beyond my wildest dreams. Never would I have dreamed that I could sell cards for a living out of my home with no help, and be able to take my family on 3-4 nice vacations a year. A lot of that is because of $1.99 cards.

[rwperu34]

Originally Posted by paulcarlcards

I still don’t understand how it can be considered a foundation to a business. It’s like a surgeon saying that he took a weekend job at McDonald’s as the foundation of his income. Instead of wasting time on the rock bottom profit per hour activities, shouldn’t we all be putting more time into everything else you were talking about?

Since cards is my primary business, I have to fill a full week.

I'll take every $400 hour I can get my hands on, but there just aren't that many. Then I'll take all the $200+. Then all the $100+. Then all the $50+. Then all the $25+. Whatever is left goes to $1.99 cards (or stuff in the $5-$15 an hour range). That last bucket turns out to be a decent amount of time due to my financial constraints.

[rwperu34]

Originally Posted by BGT Masters

I have a question. To everyone who uses promoted listings, do any items sold that were promoted ever sell organically. It would seem the only items that ever sell organically without getting charged the promoted listing fee are ones in which I didn't use promoted listings.

Originally Posted by mogwai316

All of my listings are promoted. This month I have 345 sales so far and 173 of them were promoted. So almost exactly half were organic sales. Looks like that has been true in past months as well, roughly 50/50.

I'm in the same boat. It's about 50/50 for me.

I'm curious what rate mogwai316 uses? I'm at 2.1%-2.6%.

[BGT Masters]

Originally Posted by mogwai316

All of my listings are promoted. This month I have 345 sales so far and 173 of them were promoted. So almost exactly half were organic sales. Looks like that has been true in past months as well, roughly 50/50.

I do sell a good amount organically but they aren't promoted. Do you sell strictly sports cards or do you have a pretty diverse item catalog that you listed on ebay? I strictly use 2%, used to be 1%.