Joe Burrow Prices

[jhssketchcards]

Originally Posted by Trout Fan

Seriously! You are comparing Herbert with Cam Newton. Cam has had one good year in his entire career. Statistically speaking Herbert has had two of the best years ever for a quarterback just coming into the league. Cam Newton shouldn’t even be in the same conversation. In addition it is feasible that if the Chargers had at the very least an average defense, they could be in the Super Bowl. In 60% of his starts the defense has given up an average of 27 points a game or more which is way above the league average. Not taking anything away from Joe Burrow who is great in his own right but if the Bengals don’t fix that offensive line he could get severely hurt again.

I’m not comparing anyone. Lots of guys broke records. Herbert has a losing record his first two seasons and yea he very well could be a major star QB in the future. But what he doesn’t get to the postseason? LV and KC aren’t exactly slouches and Denver looks like they are just a few pieces away.
Keenan Allen and Williams aren’t weapons like they used to be. WC are hard to come by in the AFC and unless LAC add some major weapons for him playoffs will be very difficult. But I’m sure many will still say he’s top 5 possible QB but not sure how he can be without postseason appearances or success.
Dak Prescott at least leads his team to the playoffs but I don’t see anyone putting him above Herbert.
Matt Ryan has stats for days but very few talk about his greatness. For goodness sakes even Stafford… it took him leaving a crap team to make the playoffs and he’s now in the SB, but while in DET he wasn’t moving the needle in the hobby. People can say what they want but playoff success matters, and more so SBs. Mahomes prices wouldn’t be near what they are had he not won 1 and went to a second SB last year.


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[Hellcat]

Herbert is a baby he’s 3 years younger than Mahomes and 2 years younger than Burrow. Dak is a horrible example he plays in the worst division in football, he’s nowhere near the talent level of Herbert.

[sethc1020]

Originally Posted by dbpsooner

I like both QBs but wonder what makes you think the Bengals are better built for long term success. Outside of Burrow and Chase, what long term prospects do you like about them?

Higgins, Boyd, Mixon, & Uzomah to go along with Chase & Burrow on offense is probably the most talented & youngest group in the league. Just need to sure up the O-line and strengthen the defense a little and they will contend for the foreseeable future.

As for the Chargers, Mike Williams could be gone this year because he is a FA, Allen is no spring chicken anymore, Ekler is going on his 6th season with a lot of touches and injury history. They do have a good young Defense but they also play in arguably the toughest division in football especially if Rodgers ends up in Denver.

[jhssketchcards]

Originally Posted by Hellcat

Herbert is a baby he’s 3 years younger than Mahomes and 2 years younger than Burrow. Dak is a horrible example he plays in the worst division in football, he’s nowhere near the talent level of Herbert.

I agree, I’m no fan trust me but he does bring his team to the postseason and have some big numbers but his hobby window has shrunk.


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[chasacar86]

Originally Posted by sethc1020

Higgins, Boyd, Mixon, & Uzomah to go along with Chase & Burrow on offense is probably the most talented & youngest groups in the league. Just need to sure up the O-line and strengthen the defense a little and they will contend for the foreseeable future.

As for the Chargers, Mike Williams could be gone this year because he is a FA, Allen is no spring chicken anymore, Ekler is going on his 6th season with a lot of touches and injury history. They do have a good young Defense but they also play in arguably the toughest division in football especially if Rodgers ends up in Denver.

I don't think they let Mike Will walk unless they feel good about Guyton and Palmer. I would.

[Willikn]

What is getting Burrow "over" right now is as much charisma as anything else. Stats and Super Bowls are necessary of course, but Joe Flacco had the personality of a stone. You either show collectors something they've not seen before (Mahomes and Lamar), or you constantly say and do things that fans gravitate toward as your icing. Joe Namath probably the best example of charisma leading his prices far North of Unitas or Tarkenton.

Not to say Allen and Herbert aren't safe bets. They have pretty much the same tool box and it is vast. Getting hit as often as they do... longevity may be an issue.

One thing I am certain about is Burrow's being 25 has no bearing at all. Brady also 25 in his 2nd year as a starter. For those counting yards and TDs for the career now, who had Brees ahead of Peyton in those categories when those two were in their 20s?

[recoil2020]

So someone actually spent $534K on an ungraded Joe Burrow Immaculate Collection 1/1 NFL shield at the just ended Goldin Auction. Super cool card, no doubt. But to spend that amount of money for an as yet unproven commodity is just insane. There are so many better investments in sports cards and in life in general. Odds of this purchase paying off from an investment standpoint is slim in my view. Some people really have money to burn...holy smokes.

[Onepocketj]

Originally Posted by recoil2020

So someone actually spent $534K on an ungraded Joe Burrow Immaculate Collection 1/1 NFL shield at the just ended Goldin Auction. Super cool card, no doubt. But to spend that amount of money for an as yet unproven commodity is just insane. There are so many better investments in sports cards and in life in general. Odds of this purchase paying off from an investment standpoint is slim in my view. Some people really have money to burn...holy smokes.

A Jason Dominguez card went for 475k and he hasn't hit a ball in the majors yet.

[sethc1020]

Originally Posted by chasacar86

I don't think they let Mike Will walk unless they feel good about Guyton and Palmer. I would.

Even if they keep him is he as good as Chase, Higgins, or Boyd? I personally don't think so.

[recoil2020]

Another insane purchase, but at least that card was PSA graded. Even if I was a billionaire, I don't think I could bring myself to spend $400K+ on a sports card period, but especially not on unproven asset.

[JeremyNick]

Originally Posted by Willikn

What is getting Burrow "over" right now is as much charisma as anything else. Stats and Super Bowls are necessary of course, but Joe Flacco had the personality of a stone. You either show collectors something they've not seen before (Mahomes and Lamar), or you constantly say and do things that fans gravitate toward as your icing. Joe Namath probably the best example of charisma leading his prices far North of Unitas or Tarkenton.

Not to say Allen and Herbert aren't safe bets. They have pretty much the same tool box and it is vast. Getting hit as often as they do... longevity may be an issue.

One thing I am certain about is Burrow's being 25 has no bearing at all. Brady also 25 in his 2nd year as a starter. For those counting yards and TDs for the career now, who had Brees ahead of Peyton in those categories when those two were in their 20s?

Burrow is already one major injury in and an Oline that is helping set sack records.

Flacco fell off because he just wasn’t that great consistently. Ultimately stats are important and SBs trump all. It’s terribly difficult to get to multiple SBs and even more so to win more than one. Burrow already has the leg up on Allen and Herbert and that is really all that matters. Barring injury and risk of it, as you noted, they all three will likely have very productive statistical careers.

I’ll put my money on the one with the most SBs being worth the most when it’s all said and done.

[Dame]

Originally Posted by Willikn

What is getting Burrow "over" right now is as much charisma as anything else. Stats and Super Bowls are necessary of course, but Joe Flacco had the personality of a stone. You either show collectors something they've not seen before (Mahomes and Lamar), or you constantly say and do things that fans gravitate toward as your icing. Joe Namath probably the best example of charisma leading his prices far North of Unitas or Tarkenton.

Not to say Allen and Herbert aren't safe bets. They have pretty much the same tool box and it is vast. Getting hit as often as they do... longevity may be an issue.

One thing I am certain about is Burrow's being 25 has no bearing at all. Brady also 25 in his 2nd year as a starter. For those counting yards and TDs for the career now, who had Brees ahead of Peyton in those categories when those two were in their 20s?

Max Kellerman, Jay Williams and Keyshawn discussed a similar topic this morning and shared the same thoughts. A lot of QB’s seems to be programmed to act and say the same thing, once in a while you have a lead QB with personality and the game to back it up that captures the publics attention and they did a comparison bit between all the young QB’s.


If JB wins the Superbowl, the sky is the limit for him especially if they improve his protection in the next few years (and they could given their amount of cap space next season)

[Willikn]

Originally Posted by JeremyNick

Burrow is already one major injury in and an Oline that is helping set sack records.

True, but his elite play is not based upon his ability to run over a safety like a dump truck. Not saying that's all that Herbert/Allen bring to the table. It is a piece. Especially with Allen running designed sweeps.

Originally Posted by JeremyNick

Flacco fell off because he just wasn’t that great consistently. Ultimately stats are important and SBs trump all.

We agree. My point there was that his improbable run to a SB win did not create hobby interest akin to Burrow's.

Originally Posted by JeremyNick

I’ll put my money on the one with the most SBs being worth the most when it’s all said and done.

Jim Plunkett wants to know why his cards are commons. Not that you are wrong. That rule really only applies to Tom Brady and Joe Montana. Not Bradshaw. Not Bart Starr.

[epatmythes]

Originally Posted by recoil2020

Another insane purchase, but at least that card was PSA graded. Even if I was a billionaire, I don't think I could bring myself to spend $400K+ on a sports card period, but especially not on unproven asset.

Define proven?

Heisman Trophy, BCS National Championship, #1 NFL Pick, and leads the Bengals (yes, the BENGALS) to the Super Bowl in his 2nd year.

Win or lose on Sunday, that's already a better resume than 90% of the card assets people choose do dump silly money into!

God, I pray they win this thing! Shed some bright light on this NFL season after watching my Packers choke, yet again

[Willikn]

Originally Posted by Dame

If JB wins the Superbowl, the sky is the limit for him especially if they improve his protection in the next few years (and they could given their amount of cap space next season)

Disclaimer. I am a massive Bengals fan to a fault. A true Bengals' fan does not see things through rose colored glasses. More of a, "When will the sky fall?" mentality. As such it is very hard to trust one's own read on things. My read..

They did sign Riley Reiff. He's on IR. They will pursue more I am certain. However, not all of the hits Joe takes is on the line. He believes that a sack is better than bad throw and acts accordingly. He has yet to master the internal clock and does hold on a hair long. Not all of the sacks are because the OL can't block. I'm completely certain that the sack total will shrink in coming years.

It is a problem that requires correction but the Titans game was an aberration. I don't believe Joe gets hit any more than does Stafford. In fact I think he's a little better than Stafford at avoiding the direct hit.

[starfox]

Originally Posted by Hellcat

Herbert is a baby he’s 3 years younger than Mahomes and 2 years younger than Burrow. Dak is a horrible example he plays in the worst division in football, he’s nowhere near the talent level of Herbert.

The AFC South is the worst division in football. Just look at the Texans and Jaguars. As for Dak, well: he needs to get a couple of playoff wins this upcoming season. I know he came off a major leg injury, but the offense stalled too many times in the first half in 2021. This rarely happens with top-level quarterbacks. Time to put up or get a foot out the door.

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[JeremyNick]

Originally Posted by Willikn

True, but his elite play is not based upon his ability to run over a safety like a dump truck. Not saying that's all that Herbert/Allen bring to the table. It is a piece. Especially with Allen running designed sweeps.




We agree. My point there was that his improbable run to a SB win did not create hobby interest akin to Burrow's.




Jim Plunkett wants to know why his cards are commons. Not that you are wrong. That rule really only applies to Tom Brady and Joe Montana. Not Bradshaw. Not Bart Starr.

Yes, if we are talking different eras, absolutely.

If we are talking 3 QBs in the same era who will all likely be putting up great stats, no. That’s what we are talking about.

I’m not the one who made the point that Burrow will be a better value because of longevity questions. He’s already got a major injury and a bad Oline. Herbert and Allen both have equal passing ability and good running ability. Their elite play is not based on their running, just like Burrow. We aren’t talking about Jackson and Burrow here. All 3 have very similar skill sets.

I’m not concerned about either from a longevity standpoint right now. If Cincy doesn’t fix the Oline - Burrow may be the one with the biggest longevity issue. He took at least 20 more sacks than both Allen and Herbert. Which, again, you raised the point of concern with.

[chasacar86]

Originally Posted by sethc1020

Even if they keep him is he as good as Chase, Higgins, or Boyd? I personally don't think so.

If you're taking Boyd over MW I think that shows what we are looking at in JB.

[Willikn]

Originally Posted by JeremyNick

If Cincy doesn’t fix the Oline - Burrow may be the one with the biggest longevity issue. He took at least 20 more sacks than both Allen and Herbert. Which, again, you raised the point of concern with.

Clearly not talking about the same things. I am aware of the sack totals. Sacks are not the only hits that occur during an NFL game. In reality they are less damaging than two bodies running into each other. Especially today since sacks are policed. Head on collisions are not.

Burrow is a classic pocket passer. I feel much better about that style's longevity than a guy who runs designed sweeps every game.

Now, if Burrow must play with his current cast at OL for the rest of his career, that may be troublesome. They are really young though so they should get better.

Majoring in minors at this point. Peyton rarely got hit and Brady lasted much longer. No real reason other than luck and genetics.

[sethc1020]

Originally Posted by chasacar86

If you're taking Boyd over MW I think that shows what we are looking at in JB.

Boyd is a really good WR but when Higgins and then Chase showed up he became the third fiddle. I like Williams although he is very very inconsistent but he is a great redzone target.

[JeremyNick]

Originally Posted by Willikn

Clearly not talking about the same things. I am aware of the sack totals. Sacks are not the only hits that occur during an NFL game. In reality they are less damaging than two bodies running into each other. Especially today since sacks are policed. Head on collisions are not.

Burrow is a classic pocket passer. I feel much better about that style's longevity than a guy who runs designed sweeps every game.

Now, if Burrow must play with his current cast at OL for the rest of his career, that may be troublesome. They are really young though so they should get better.

Majoring in minors at this point. Peyton rarely got hit and Brady lasted much longer. No real reason other than luck and genetics.

Sports Info Solutions did a piece in 2019 that showed that data that QBs are more likely to be injured on a sack/scramble than a designed run.

So again, the point you brought up about longevity is not valid. Either considering Burrows sacks numbers compared to the other two or even by your own admission when talking Brady and Manning.

[jhssketchcards]

Originally Posted by starfox

The AFC South is the worst division in football. Just look at the Texans and Jaguars. As for Dak, well: he needs to get a couple of playoff wins this upcoming season. I know he came off a major leg injury, but the offense stalled too many times in the first half in 2021. This rarely happens with top-level quarterbacks. Time to put up or get a foot out the door.

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Didn’t Dallas lead the NFL in offense?


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[starfox]

Originally Posted by jhssketchcards

Didn’t Dallas lead the NFL in offense?


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I think they did, but it really didn't seem like it. They were just ok against better teams when on offense. Dak needs to lift his team a bit more. Burrow is showing it can be done.

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[IronCladLou]

Originally Posted by Onepocketj

A Jason Dominguez card went for 475k and he hasn't hit a ball in the majors yet.

If my Bobby Witt Jr optic 1/1 can fetch $475 bucks, i'll be laughing!

[5280Cards]

Originally Posted by epatmythes

Define proven?

Heisman Trophy, BCS National Championship, #1 NFL Pick, and leads the Bengals (yes, the BENGALS) to the Super Bowl in his 2nd year.

Win or lose on Sunday, that's already a better resume than 90% of the card assets people choose do dump silly money into!

God, I pray they win this thing! Shed some bright light on this NFL season after watching my Packers choke, yet again

Depends on the definition of "silly" as well...