NL Cy Young Poll...I can't believe I'm even posting this. - Page 12

Cubsfan2011 · 10-04-2015, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustinVerlander07

Understood, but again, the entire season counts. Not just parts of the season.

1993 Greg Maddux. 8 - 8 with a 2.38 ERA pre all star break. Didn't make the all star team. Post all star - 12 - 2 with a 1.79 ERA. Wins Cy Young.

2004 - Johan Santana - 7 - 6 pre all star break. Didn't make the all star team. Post all star - 13 - 0 with a 1.21 ERA. Wins Cy Young.

2014 Cory Kluber. 9 - 6 with 3.01 pre all star break. Didn't make the all star team. Post all star - 9 - 3 with a 1.73 ERA. Wins Cy Young.

Big35Hurt · 10-04-2015, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cubsfan2011

1993 Greg Maddux. 8 - 8 with a 2.38 ERA pre all star break. Didn't make the all star team. Post all star - 12 - 2 with a 1.79 ERA. Wins Cy Young.

2004 - Johan Santana - 7 - 6 pre all star break. Didn't make the all star team. Post all star - 13 - 0 with a 1.21 ERA. Wins Cy Young.

2014 Cory Kluber. 9 - 6 with 3.01 pre all star break. Didn't make the all star team. Post all star - 9 - 3 with a 1.73 ERA. Wins Cy Young.

Uh oh....shots fired! Nice post, btw.

jstasyk1121 · 10-04-2015, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skipscards

I agree. Can't deny the 1.66 ERA and 19-3 record. We are talking about the 8th best ERA in the live ball era...nearly 100 years.

Yea everyone keeps saying how greinke era is all time...8th best since 1930

Well arrieta is 22-6 1.77era which is 15th best since 1930...not like he is just having another season...he is RIGHT THERE in the era discussion too...one spot ahead of kershaw from last year...
And he had the BEST half-season ever....

8th best

15th best including #1 post-all star ever

With the no-hitter...the total domination in aug/Sept the 22wins...the 240ks compared to 200...

I don't know who is gonna win...I think Arrieta wins...and I think he should...more of a total package of stats...

kyleuk21 · 10-04-2015, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cubsfan2011

1993 Greg Maddux. 8 - 8 with a 2.38 ERA pre all star break. Didn't make the all star team. Post all star - 12 - 2 with a 1.79 ERA. Wins Cy Young.

2004 - Johan Santana - 7 - 6 pre all star break. Didn't make the all star team. Post all star - 13 - 0 with a 1.21 ERA. Wins Cy Young.

2014 Cory Kluber. 9 - 6 with 3.01 pre all star break. Didn't make the all star team. Post all star - 9 - 3 with a 1.73 ERA. Wins Cy Young.

what's the point of a major full season award when dumb stuff like that happens. Totally unfair to those who performed better consistently over an entire season - assuming there was someone in each of those years with better overall numbers. I didn't look so it's possible those second halves made their stats the best.

kyleuk21 · 10-04-2015, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jstasyk1121

Yea everyone keeps saying how greinke era is all time...8th best since 1930

Well arrieta is 22-6 1.77era which is 15th best since 1930...not like he is just having another season...he is RIGHT THERE in the era discussion too...one spot ahead of kershaw from last year...
And he had the BEST half-season ever....

8th best

15th best including #1 post-all star ever

With the no-hitter...the total domination in aug/Sept the 22wins...the 240ks compared to 200...

I don't know who is gonna win...I think Arrieta wins...and I think he should...more of a total package of stats...

Since a full season doesn't matter we should probably give scherzer the cy young for throwing two no-hitters in the same season. Clearly that means he was the best...

jstasyk1121 · 10-04-2015, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kyleuk21

Since a full season doesn't matter we should probably give scherzer the cy young for throwing two no-hitters in the same season. Clearly that means he was the best...

Comments like this are just pointless...u are acting like Arrieta's FULL SEASON stats are no good??

His full season stats are right in line with greinkes....greinke was better in april/may/June and arrieta was better(than anyone ever) in july/aug/Sept

19-3 1.66 200k 0.84whip
22-6 1.77 240k 0.86whip

Stop acting like arrieta still ended up at like 2.40 or something....also it's not the consistency award....it's the full season award...so u take there full season and look at it...and add in extras from there....

Greinke-
8th best ERA since 1930
Had a 45 inning scoreless streak
Era was never above 2.00 all year.

Arrieta-
15th best era since 1930
No hit the Dodgers with 12k
Best 2nd half era of all time

They both have amazing years...I just think the year long consistency of greinke was over matched by the destruction of dominance that Arrieta showed since July...including a no hitter and multiple shutouts and many scoreless outings and really anchoring the Cubs staff while greinke had kershaw right there with him killing it...

Sadly whether you like it or not "story" counts too...and his story is just better...and his stats are as good if not better as well

sportzluvr1 · 10-04-2015, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cubsfan2011

1993 Greg Maddux. 8 - 8 with a 2.38 ERA pre all star break. Didn't make the all star team. Post all star - 12 - 2 with a 1.79 ERA. Wins Cy Young.

2004 - Johan Santana - 7 - 6 pre all star break. Didn't make the all star team. Post all star - 13 - 0 with a 1.21 ERA. Wins Cy Young.

2014 Cory Kluber. 9 - 6 with 3.01 pre all star break. Didn't make the all star team. Post all star - 9 - 3 with a 1.73 ERA. Wins Cy Young.

Guess that settles that

bulljh · 10-04-2015, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustinVerlander07

Understood, but again, the entire season counts. Not just parts of the season.

Clearly you don't understand how the voters vote. In Posey's MVP year, he was good for the majority of the year...but he was spectacular in September during the playoff push which won him the award. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but the voters put a lot of emphasis on what a player has done towards the end of the season when the games mean the most. There for I believe Arrietta will win.

Skipscards · 10-04-2015, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jstasyk1121

Yea everyone keeps saying how greinke era is all time...8th best since 1930

Well arrieta is 22-6 1.77era which is 15th best since 1930...not like he is just having another season...he is RIGHT THERE in the era discussion too...one spot ahead of kershaw from last year...
And he had the BEST half-season ever....

8th best

15th best including #1 post-all star ever

With the no-hitter...the total domination in aug/Sept the 22wins...the 240ks compared to 200...

I don't know who is gonna win...I think Arrieta wins...and I think he should...more of a total package of stats...

Greinke also had one of the longest scoreless streaks in history.

Another dimension to the discussion that the voters have been taking into account in recent years is WAR. I am not a proponent of the overuse of WAR but we can't deny that it is part of the discussion.

Greinke leads all pitchers this year with 9.4. That is the highest single season WAR for a pitcher since 2009 when some guy named Greinke did it.

jstasyk1121 · 10-04-2015, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skipscards

Greinke also had one of the longest scoreless streaks in history.

Another dimension to the discussion that the voters have been taking into account in recent years is WAR. I am not a proponent of the overuse of WAR but we can't deny that it is part of the discussion.

Greinke leads all pitchers this year with 9.4. That is the highest single season WAR for a pitcher since 2009 when some guy named Greinke did it.

I acknowledge his scoreless streak in my other post...for sure awesome...and my problem with war is u have to specify...cuz fWAR greinke sucks...he isn't even top 5...but bWAR he is top guy...so idk how war really will help or hurt him this year...arrieta is 2nd in both I believe...

death2redemptions · 10-04-2015, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustinVerlander07

You're right, we're talking about a season here, so I don't care what Arrieta has done in the 2nd half, I care about what he has done over the whole season.

Yes, but Kershaw's first half of the season was just as bad as Arrieta's first half of the season. Neither of them had *bad* first half numbers but they weren't great either. The only difference is that Kershaw was always consistent with the strikeouts.

With a good game today & reaching 300 strikeouts I'd likely put Kershaw as runner up again & Greinke back in 3rd.

NickM · 10-04-2015, 12:55 PM

Greinke had 2 starts all year where he gave up more than 3 runs.
His ERA in his losses: 2.57
His ERA in his no-decisions: 2.17
Arrieta had 4 starts all year where he gave up more than 3 runs.
His ERA in his losses: 4.89
His ERA in his no-decisions: 2.91

Greinke gave his team more of a chance to win, each and every start.

phreak23 · 10-10-2015, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NickM

Greinke gave his team more of a chance to win, each and every start.

Even today?

bulljh · 10-10-2015, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phreak23

Even today?

Haha how long were you holding onto that bullet?

phreak23 · 10-10-2015, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bulljh

Haha how long were you holding onto that bullet?

Lol guilty as charged!

Big35Hurt · 10-20-2015, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phreak23

Even today?

Bahahaha....awesome, and gave me a great excuse to bump this failure of a thread.

jstasyk1121 · 11-18-2015, 07:26 PM

Yes!!! Arrieta wins!!

grandmasterPRA · 11-18-2015, 07:33 PM

Greinke had a better season so he should have won it. Simple as that, but that isn't how voting works so it's whatever. Its not like Arrieta didn't have a Cy Young worthy season.

Skipscards · 11-18-2015, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grandmasterPRA

Greinke had a better season so he should have won it. Simple as that, but that isn't how voting works so it's whatever. Its not like Arrieta didn't have a Cy Young worthy season.

Just further evidence that 20 Wins is still magical.

Big35Hurt · 11-18-2015, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jstasyk1121

Yes!!! Arrieta wins!!

Nice bump!

death2redemptions · 11-18-2015, 09:16 PM

I can't believe I'm even posting this but.....OP was dead wrong. So were 41% of voters, which includes Skip.

I was wondering why Skip loved Greinke so much but then I realized he used to pitch for the Royals so it is much clearer now.

Skipscards · 11-18-2015, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by death2redemptions

I can't believe I'm even posting this but.....OP was dead wrong. So were 41% of voters, which includes Skip.

I was wondering why Skip loved Greinke so much but then I realized he used to pitch for the Royals so it is much clearer now.

Wait, what do you mean "used to"?

death2redemptions · 11-18-2015, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skipscards

Wait, what do you mean "used to"?

Think the Royals are going to pony up the cash for him? That certainly would be awesome, they need a veteran ace.

Andrew Jones · 11-18-2015, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by death2redemptions

I can't believe I'm even posting this but.....OP was dead wrong. So were 41% of voters, which includes Skip.

I was wondering why Skip loved Greinke so much but then I realized he used to pitch for the Royals so it is much clearer now.

To be fair, nobody was wrong:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Jones

What's the poll question? Who should win or who will win?

Quote:

Originally Posted by dhcollecting

should win.

Skipscards · 11-18-2015, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by death2redemptions

Think the Royals are going to pony up the cash for him? That certainly would be awesome, they need a veteran ace.

Ha. I'd love to have him back but ain't no way. Maybe if he'd sign a 2 year deal? Lol

View Poll Results: Who is the NL Cy Young???
Zack Grienke	68	41.98%
Jake Arrieta	94	58.02%
Voters: 162. You may not vote on this poll

10-04-2015, 12:55 PM	#287
NickM Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 12,353	Greinke had 2 starts all year where he gave up more than 3 runs. His ERA in his losses: 2.57 His ERA in his no-decisions: 2.17 Arrieta had 4 starts all year where he gave up more than 3 runs. His ERA in his losses: 4.89 His ERA in his no-decisions: 2.91 Greinke gave his team more of a chance to win, each and every start. __________________ 1st superfractor hit by RK Collectibles. 2014 Bowman Chrome Mini BB Chris Kohler. "What do we want?" "Time travel." "And when do we want it?" "It's irrelevant."

11-18-2015, 07:26 PM	#292
jstasyk1121 Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Michigan Posts: 5,399 jbstasyk1121	Yes!!! Arrieta wins!!

11-18-2015, 07:33 PM	#293
grandmasterPRA Member Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 774	Greinke had a better season so he should have won it. Simple as that, but that isn't how voting works so it's whatever. Its not like Arrieta didn't have a Cy Young worthy season.

11-18-2015, 09:16 PM	#296
death2redemptions Banned Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Creeping in mama's cellar Posts: 59,303 ddavisaz	I can't believe I'm even posting this but.....OP was dead wrong. So were 41% of voters, which includes Skip. I was wondering why Skip loved Greinke so much but then I realized he used to pitch for the Royals so it is much clearer now.