Observations on the current state of the hobby from a show this weekend

[theshowandme]

Geoff Wilson’s new card shop, Cards HQ, was set up buying at Chantilly

I do not know what their payout structure was, but they were extremely busy on Friday and Saturday. They shut it down early on Sunday.

[anusinha]

Originally Posted by eastbayak

I can't speak of such vendors but I can see it still working out if they're spending a lot and buying on good margins.

For instance, if they're buying thousands of dollars worth of cards in the 50-65% of comp range and simultaneously flipping such cards (or listing on various sales platforms/bringing to future shows), they can make good money on sales.

Let's say a seller approaches them with a fairly liquid $1250 card. The vendor could offer 75-80% ($937.50-$1000) all cash and the seller might pull the trigger because of convenience (cash right away to spend at the show or pocket) without shipment risk and they'd only make a little more on a $1250 eBay sale (unlikely to pay taxes on it too). The vendor could price the card at $1100-$1150 for a quick sale.

Do that a couple times and that covers all expenses. You can apply this approach at any price-point but basically, the margins are there if enough volume is done (buying/selling).

It always amazes me what kind of deals vendors get from sellers (buy at the 50-70% comp and flip at the 85-100% comp).

You have to be all kinds of stupid to sell a liquid 1250 card for under $1000.

Send it to probstein, get 1175 deposited into your bank account in a week with no work on your part, easy.

[BigL7370]

Maybe some collectors with cards to flip don’t do online or have a clue - sounds dumb but they might prefer to do things in-person, get cash rather than wait around and send to a consigner.

[theredmenace]

I'd imagine there's people who balk at shipping any card valued over $100. Cash in hand is also a pretty powerful motivator.

[eastbayak]

Originally Posted by anusinha

You have to be all kinds of stupid to sell a liquid 1250 card for under $1000.

Send it to probstein, get 1175 deposited into your bank account in a week with no work on your part, easy.

Your thought process is a little too simplistic, it all depends on the variables. Going your proposed route could be "dumber" in many instances.

1. Capital gains taxes: Sending to Probstein and having money deposited into your account creates a paper trail => payment of capital gains taxes (at least 22%)

2. Risk: Sending to Probstein => Risk of shipment getting lost

3. Delayed payment: Waiting one week (in some instances, longer when Probstein makes a mistake) is pretty slow, especially when you're at a show and trying to recycle that money into other cards.

4. Trust: You're forced to trust that there won't be any issues with Probstein and that you'll actually be paid out too (in a timely manner as well). I just did a quick google search and found many reported issues with Probstein consignments lol. Yikes.

Random example: Let's say you bought into a card for $500 and Probstein pays you 100% of the sell price (which I doubt but I don't know the actual % for payout as I don't consign with them). Let's also say it costs you $12.50 to ship the card insured (a likely underestimate) to Probstein.

$1175 - $12.50 = $1162.50 payout from Probstein

$1162.50 - $500 = $662.50 is the profit

$662.50*0.22 = $145.75 is the capital gains taxes at the low-end (short-term capital gains taxes is based on income bracket and long-term is fixed at 28%, if I remember correctly).

$662.50-$145.75 => $516.75 is the adjusted profit (with the potential to be less if one is in a higher tax bracket or held the card for 1+ year).

For this particular example, total net of a $1175 Probstein sale would be $1016.75. In this instance, there's not much difference between a sub-$1000 immediate cash offer and a $1175 Probstein sale with delayed payment.

There's many instances where working in-person deals and taking less cash than true worth makes sense. There's also many instances where consigning a card makes sense too. It all depends on the numbers.

[eastbayak]

Originally Posted by BigL7370

Maybe some collectors with cards to flip don’t do online or have a clue - sounds dumb but they might prefer to do things in-person, get cash rather than wait around and send to a consigner.

Just tweak the numbers in my example above (say the actual buy-in for the card was $200) and it'd be "dumber" to pass on a $951 cash offer (or PayPal F/F if one only deals with digital payments) and go with Probstein for a $1175 sale.

It all depends on the variables.

[eastbayak]

Originally Posted by LVDan

^The wild card is that stuff that isn’t widely available and comps aren’t established on…knowing player and rare insert/ parallel markets acutely can blow that 20-30% out of the water. Of course it goes both ways and dealer can lose/ break even as well but I’m guessing ppl who do this for a living are fairly sharp.

A stack of liquid flips at a consistent 20-30% margin plus a couple wild cards could make for a decent weekend I assume.

Absolutely. Some of those wild cards can be AWESOME.

I'd love a consistent 20-30% margin on stuff I don't care about to fund PC cards/wax.

[ThoseBackPages]

some folks are not cut out for in person dealings

[anusinha]

Originally Posted by eastbayak

Just tweak the numbers in my example above (say the actual buy-in for the card was $200) and it'd be "dumber" to pass on a $951 cash offer (or PayPal F/F if one only deals with digital payments) and go with Probstein for a $1175 sale.

It all depends on the variables.

So committing tax fraud makes it a better deal, got it.

80,000 new IRS agents are going to have a field day.

[theshowandme]

I wish it were National season

I’d eat up the posts saying, “why would I attend when I can just buy cards online?”

[ThoseBackPages]

Originally Posted by theshowandme

I wish it were National season

I’d eat up the posts saying, “why would I attended when I can just buy cards online?”

[eastbayak]

Originally Posted by anusinha

So committing tax fraud makes it a better deal, got it.

80,000 new IRS agents are going to have a field day.

Do you actually believe the vast majority of card show attendees pay capital gains taxes on their cash (and profitable) transactions?

If so, I really don't know what to tell you.

[ThoseBackPages]

[eastbayak]

Originally Posted by theshowandme

I wish it were National season

I’d eat up the posts saying, “why would I attended when I can just buy cards online?”

You have to be all kinds of stupid to attend a card show.

Just search probstein listings on eBay, place a bid on a shilled item and receive your card in weeks, easy.

No driving, card show fee, outside meal, stank body odor or even walking. Plus, you're always seconds away from a restroom.

[notfast]

Originally Posted by hermanotarjeta

Attending a card show is a great way to make you feel better about not having a job.

Attending a card show is a great way to make you feel better about your social skills…if you actually have them.

Originally Posted by hammerva

I found it interesting how many dealers there were that seemed to ONLY be there to buy stuff it seems. I had two dealers ask me of all people if I am selling. So they are paying about $650 for a table and the only money they are making is based on stuff they bought that day. Like playing down 14 points before kickoff

Showing us this big cases with maybe 5 cards in it hoping to have it have 50 by Saturday

Good stuff at good prices comes up to dealer tables. This is how it’s always been. If you can run flat and make solid buys, you can make some serious $ with a simple set up if you’re doing a lot of buying.

[ThoseBackPages]

Originally Posted by eastbayak

You have to be all kinds of stupid to attend a card show.

Just search probstein listings on eBay, place a bid on a shilled item and receive your card in weeks, easy.

No driving, card show fee, outside meal, stank body odor or even walking. Plus, you're always seconds away from a restroom.

hahahahaha

[Jolten Joe]

Originally Posted by eastbayak

You have to be all kinds of stupid to attend a card show.

Just search probstein listings on eBay, place a bid on a shilled item and receive your card in weeks, easy.

No driving, card show fee, outside meal, stank body odor or even walking. Plus, you're always seconds away from a restroom.

Plus the AC is probably working as well

[eastbayak]

Originally Posted by Jolten Joe

Plus the AC is probably working as well

You have to be all kinds of stupid to pay for AC.

Just put some cold water on a small towel and place it around your neck.

Wait, you have to be all kinds of stupid to pay for water and a towel.

Just collect some water from your buckets outside. Throw just enough water on your body to cool down without drenching your clothes.

Wait, you have to be all kinds of stupid to pay for clothes...

[theshowandme]

If you are having a bad time at a baseball card show, you are the problem

[BAHoopla]

Originally Posted by theshowandme

If you are having a bad time at a baseball card show, you are the problem

You sound quite bitter

[solt0131]

Originally Posted by theshowandme

If you are having a bad time at a baseball card show, you are the problem

You are 100% right but there are a good number of people that either set up or attend that do struggle with social skills.

The people that are mostly miserable at a show are most likely the ones that aren’t selling anything and are in the red for the show.

[here2havefun]

Originally Posted by theshowandme

Just be a normal person. Both dealers and patrons shoot themselves in the foot by not knowing how to talk to other people.

Spending the 3-5 minutes to establish a relationship has always helped me work out a better deal on the cards I want.

Me standing at someone's table, repeating this over and over in my head

[theshowandme]

Originally Posted by here2havefun

Me standing at someone's table, repeating this over and over in my head

[solt0131]

There is going to come a time for contraction at these shows eventually I believe.....starting to get too many dealers in the room

[f2tornado]

I went to the Minnesota Card Show just outside Minneapolis Saturday morning and the place was packed with dealers and customers. It was awesome, aside from more bargain bin competition than usual. I then went to the other show on south side and it was a bit slower but also later in the day. I then hit a Fargo show late Sunday on my way home and there were still a fair number of people shopping a half hour to close. No signs up slowing down in the Upper Midwest.