MLB Owners Support Thread

[CalCub]

Originally Posted by JustinVerlander07

The way CalClub speaks about players almost makes it seem like they are slaves sometimes.

There's a lot of players I like and admire, and I think baseball has produced a better product since there's a greater emphasis on building winning teams with a strong talent core from a teams farm system, rather than trying to win by spending the most on free agents like the Yankees did in the 90s/early 2000s.

But I'm not going to let my admiration for MLB players blind me from the truth and give them a free pass to rip me & the owners off like they're trying to do in these negotiations...and I understand a lot of these players probably feel the same way I do, so the blame also goes to the greedy agents like Scott Borass & the Union bosses

[CalCub]

Originally Posted by ScooterD

Ok - let me get this straight:

1. Uninformed people like Vandy =
2. MLB players demanding to see the owners’ books =
3. MLB players demanding more money =
4. Owners making no money =
5. No baseball.

This chain of causes and effects is based purely on your opinions, to which your are entitled; however, it is not based on facts or reality.

Present the name of a privately held business with the same size, scope, and fiduciary obligations as MLB where this scenario has played out as you have predicted.

Also, Vandy is not uninformed... he has only respectfully disagreed with your “strong opinions” that you have tried to “debate” are facts.

I swear - I’m trying to help. I’m lonely without baseball.

No, that list you have are facts & potential scenarios...you can go ahead and call them opinions if you want, but people that have a good understanding of the MLB labor negotiations would agree with me that your list is a combination of facts & potential scenarios, nice try though.

Vandy needs to stop the hatred against wealthy sports team owners, so he can process the dynamics of these MLB labor negotiations better, instead of giving the players a free pass to be greedy

[ScooterD]

Originally Posted by CalCub

No, that list you have are facts & potential scenarios...you can go ahead and call them opinions if you want, but people that have a good understanding of the MLB labor negotiations would agree with me that your list is a combination of facts & potential scenarios, nice try though.

Vandy needs to stop the hatred against wealthy sports team owners, so he can process the dynamics of these MLB labor negotiations better, instead of giving the players a free pass to be greedy

My list is a synopsis of the section of your post that I quoted. It’s exactly what you said.

You said that Vandy was uninformed, and people like him would cause the players to see the owners books, and that would cause the players to demand more money, which would cause the owners making no money, which would cause there to be no baseball.

You didn’t say that it any of these posits were opinions... you stated them as facts. You didn’t use the words “possible,” “possibly,” “opinion” or “scenario.” You used words like “will” - which is an indicator of fact.

You also unambiguously said that Vandy was uninformed - which you don’t know to be a fact. You only know that he disagrees with your opinions and possible scenarios, and you have responded with posts which attempt to evoke an emotional response - which is the definition of flaming and trolling, both of which are stated to be discouraged on these boards.

I tried to help you twice before, you ignored me, and your actions resulted in a short vacation. I’m trying to help you...

[CalCub]

Originally Posted by brewtown107

Call it what you want, but yes. Sign me up.

30 teams x 25 man rosters = 750 major league roster spots. Expand that to 40 man rosters, to account for top minor leaguers, and you get 1200 major league roster spots.

I sincerely believe that there are more than 1200 potential players on this green earth who are capable of providing entertainment to a crowd by playing major league baseball. A lot more, in fact. And that's good, because the vast majority of guys on major league rosters now are only an injury or a slip in performance away from being replaced anyway. None will play forever.

These guys that have now made it seem to forget how hard it is to get there and how hard it is to stay there. They aren't nearly as special as they think they are. They can and will be replaced eventually, if not now. And there are a ton of guys who would have made it in their place if not for a badly timed injury, or some other happenstance.

If today's players put in the time and effort to get to the majors so they can participate in union bargaining activities, rather than so they can play baseball, then the sport doesn't need them.

Below is the live interview with MLB Commissioner earlier this evening...@ 3:15 Manfred guarantees 100% the baseball season will resume in 2020...@ 2:20 he discusses who he will not let the postseason go into November and risk the playoffs getting canceled which he says would be a complete "disaster" for MLB...again, the owners & management are trying to give the fans a good season, players are proposing the playoffs start in November with that 114 game proposal, shows the players don't care if the fans don't get the playoffs this year if there's a second Covid wave starts when winter weather rolls in

Manfred on baseball in 2020 - June 10, 2020 | 00:06:09
https://www.mlb.com/video/manfred-on...t=most-popular

[brewtown107]

Originally Posted by JustinVerlander07

The way CalClub speaks about players almost makes it seem like they are slaves sometimes.

Lolwut?

Slaves that make upwards of $3 million per year on average? Hmmmmm....

[brewtown107]

Originally Posted by CalCub

I have MLB Network on, and they just interviewed the Commissioner about the current labor negotiations; he confirmed there will be baseball this year no matter what, and that the season will end in late Sept/early Oct, so it's good to know we will at least get something this year & the chances of the postseason getting canceled is much less if they are played in October vs November. It's the players fault if we only end up with a ~50 games season though.

I'll be watching! I'm just looking forward to some baseball!

[CalCub]

Originally Posted by ScooterD

My list is a synopsis of the section of your post that I quoted. It’s exactly what you said.

You said that Vandy was uninformed, and people like him would cause the players to see the owners books, and that would cause the players to demand more money, which would cause the owners making no money, which would cause there to be no baseball.

You didn’t say that it any of these posits were opinions... you stated them as facts. You didn’t use the words “possible,” “possibly,” “opinion” or “scenario.” You used words like “will” - which is an indicator of fact.

You also unambiguously said that Vandy was uninformed - which you don’t know to be a fact. You only know that he disagrees with your opinions and possible scenarios, and you have responded with posts which attempt to evoke an emotional response - which is the definition of flaming and trolling, both of which are stated to be discouraged on these boards.

I tried to help you twice before, you ignored me, and your actions resulted in a short vacation. I’m trying to help you...

Stop trying to twist everything I've said and label it as trolling...last time I checked I created this thread, so it's a topic I'm passionate about...there's people that make comments to me to get an emotional response out of me and I don't complain & try to report them. Lots of people in this forum don't like that I'm newer and have a strong opinion about certain topics, that does not make me a troll. In fact, it seems most of the people in this forum that try to label me as a troll are the actual trolls, it's like the new trolling is calling others trolls.

And yes, based on Vandy's responses, he seems very uniformed about the details of the MLB labor negotiations and sides with the players & also fails to acknowledge the players are not trying to compromise at all

[mc1]

Never compromise. The owners can go pound sand.

[CalCub]

Originally Posted by brewtown107

I'll be watching! I'm just looking forward to some baseball!

Wow, watching ESPN and saw that the Commissioner interviewed with ESPN today too, found the interview, below is the link....@ 3:25 Manfred mentions how MLB revenue is going to be DOWN over 70% this year without ticket sales...the players know this, yet they've continued to make outrageous demands in this tough economic environment for pro sports & the country, which is exactly why we don't have a deal yet, and why we missed the opportunity to have baseball start by July 4th....

6/10/2020
Rob Manfred: 100% there will be a 2020 MLB season | SportsCenter
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76a9rSigq44


Manfred seems like a good leader

[petesahuttt]

I just want a free pass...
I am uninformed, I sell un-ripped rip cards knowing what's inside.
I give players free will to demand things from owners.
I have no savvy in labor negotiations.
I rub lemon skins on my open wounds every time I read this OP's #@#@#@#@ing garbage

[sarahmc143]

Originally Posted by VandyCards

You are progressively becoming more directly insulting (rather than the indirect you used earlier) and continuing to resort to ad hominem, even if it is just for rhetorical purposes. I think we are done here.

Mommy, I think I am done here!

[JustinVerlander07]

Originally Posted by brewtown107

Lolwut?

Slaves that make upwards of $3 million per year on average? Hmmmmm....

You're clearly missing the point.

The "do whatever the owners say, don't ask questions" bit is where I'm using the anology. Thanks for coming, though!

[pewe]

Originally Posted by mc1

Never compromise. The owners can go pound sand.

Which foot should the players shoot? Or just go ahead and do them both???


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[VandyCards]

Originally Posted by sarahmc143

Mommy, I think I am done here!

If I'm taking the time to engage with somebody, I expect some level of decency and maturity. I don't think that's too much to ask.

[brewtown107]

Originally Posted by JustinVerlander07

You're clearly missing the point.

The "do whatever the owners say, don't ask questions" bit is where I'm using the anology. Thanks for coming, though!

It's an outrageously poor analogy, no matter how you try to justify it. Using a politically loaded word like "slaves" to describe a group of millionaires who are free to walk away at any time, and whose interests are doubly represented by a strong union and by individual player agents, is the absolute peak of cluelessness.

[JustinVerlander07]

Originally Posted by brewtown107

It's an outrageously poor analogy, no matter how you try to justify it. Using a politically loaded word like "slaves" to describe a group of millionaires who are free to walk away at any time, and whose interests are doubly represented by a strong union and by individual player agents, is the absolute peak of cluelessness.

I'm speaking to how he portrays them. If you'll notice, he doesn't even get fazed by the comment. He has proven through both MLB threads he doesn't believe players should have any say and should do as they're told.

Take your fake outrage elsewhere.

[orioles70]

Ok...I have never posted anything like this and will likely regret it but#@let's discuss real life for just a moment and#@say we return to normal someday and#@actually have children attending#@school again...a child will#@get#@on a school bus and ride safely to school to receive an#@education where a degreed teacher with many years experience will teach this child...let's say this child while at recess playing baseball accidentally breaks a wrist...the registered#@nurse at the school tends to the child as the#@principal of that school calls up a parent and the parent leaves their factory#@job to pickup the child and take the child to a doctor where the broken wrist is set...everybody did their job and all is good (grand slam)...if you were to add up the annual salary of all 6 working#@adults mentioned in this scenario (the#@school bus driver, the#@teacher, the nurse, the#@principal, the#@doctor and the#@parent) it very likely would#@not be as much as the minimum annual salary of a major league ballplayer which according to#@https://www.baseball-reference.com/bullpen/Minimum_salary is $563,500 for 2020...you#@might even be able to throw in the annual salaries of the unmentioned cafeteria worker, crossing guard and janitor. This scenario of course would#@presume each of the 6 people to be minimums since we are comparing their salaries to MLB minimum salary...but let's#@suppose all 6 are average in their profession...we must then#@compare their annual salaries to the average major league salary which according to the same reference cited#@above#@is $4,095,000 for#@2018 as average#@salaries for#@2019 and 2020 are not provided on their site.

I love#@baseball as much as anybody, been a huge fan for 50+ years and feel there was definitely a time when#@players were underpaid#@but#@huge#@guaranteed contracts#@regardless of performance or injury have taken things too far in the other#@direction for me. Yes, I know there is not#@a gun held#@to each owner's#@head to pay those salaries but I feel the players are about to kill the goose laying golden#@eggs.



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[MIRRABB]

Originally Posted by orioles70

Ok...I have never posted anything like this and will likely regret it but#@let's discuss real life for just a moment and#@say we return to normal someday and#@actually have children attending#@school again...a child will#@get#@on a school bus and ride safely to school to receive an#@education where a degreed teacher with many years experience will teach this child...let's say this child while at recess playing baseball accidentally breaks a wrist...the registered#@nurse at the school tends to the child as the#@principal of that school calls up a parent and the parent leaves their factory#@job to pickup the child and take the child to a doctor where the broken wrist is set...everybody did their job and all is good (grand slam)...if you were to add up the annual salary of all 6 working#@adults mentioned in this scenario (the#@school bus driver, the#@teacher, the nurse, the#@principal, the#@doctor and the#@parent) it very likely would#@not be as much as the minimum annual salary of a major league ballplayer which according to#@https://www.baseball-reference.com/bullpen/Minimum_salary is $563,500 for 2020...you#@might even be able to throw in the annual salaries of the unmentioned cafeteria worker, crossing guard and janitor. This scenario of course would#@presume each of the 6 people to be minimums since we are comparing their salaries to MLB minimum salary...but let's#@suppose all 6 are average in their profession...we must then#@compare their annual salaries to the average major league salary which according to the same reference cited#@above#@is $4,095,000 for#@2018 as average#@salaries for#@2019 and 2020 are not provided on their site.

I love#@baseball as much as anybody, been a huge fan for 50+ years and feel there was definitely a time when#@players were underpaid#@but#@huge#@guaranteed contracts#@regardless of performance or injury have taken things too far in the other#@direction for me. Yes, I know there is not#@a gun held#@to each owner's#@head to pay those salaries but I feel the players are about to kill the goose laying golden#@eggs.



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It seems like you have some fundamental issues with capitalism.

[JustinVerlander07]

Originally Posted by orioles70

Ok...I have never posted anything like this and will likely regret it but#@let's discuss real life for just a moment and#@say we return to normal someday and#@actually have children attending#@school again...a child will#@get#@on a school bus and ride safely to school to receive an#@education where a degreed teacher with many years experience will teach this child...let's say this child while at recess playing baseball accidentally breaks a wrist...the registered#@nurse at the school tends to the child as the#@principal of that school calls up a parent and the parent leaves their factory#@job to pickup the child and take the child to a doctor where the broken wrist is set...everybody did their job and all is good (grand slam)...if you were to add up the annual salary of all 6 working#@adults mentioned in this scenario (the#@school bus driver, the#@teacher, the nurse, the#@principal, the#@doctor and the#@parent) it very likely would#@not be as much as the minimum annual salary of a major league ballplayer which according to#@https://www.baseball-reference.com/bullpen/Minimum_salary is $563,500 for 2020...you#@might even be able to throw in the annual salaries of the unmentioned cafeteria worker, crossing guard and janitor. This scenario of course would#@presume each of the 6 people to be minimums since we are comparing their salaries to MLB minimum salary...but let's#@suppose all 6 are average in their profession...we must then#@compare their annual salaries to the average major league salary which according to the same reference cited#@above#@is $4,095,000 for#@2018 as average#@salaries for#@2019 and 2020 are not provided on their site.

I love#@baseball as much as anybody, been a huge fan for 50+ years and feel there was definitely a time when#@players were underpaid#@but#@huge#@guaranteed contracts#@regardless of performance or injury have taken things too far in the other#@direction for me. Yes, I know there is not#@a gun held#@to each owner's#@head to pay those salaries but I feel the players are about to kill the goose laying golden#@eggs.



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So you are suggesting the players should take less money in the future so the owners can pocket more money?

[orioles70]

Originally Posted by MIRRABB

It seems like you have some fundamental issues with capitalism.

A true debate requires a response with some relevance...please elaborate

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[orioles70]

Originally Posted by JustinVerlander07

So you are suggesting the players should take less money in the future so the owners can pocket more money?

Please show me where in my post that I suggested players take less money

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[JustinVerlander07]

Originally Posted by orioles70

Please show me where in my post that I suggested players take less money

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"I love#@baseball as much as anybody, been a huge fan for 50+ years and feel there was definitely a time when#@players were underpaid#@but#@huge#@guaranteed contracts#@regardless of performance or injury have taken things too far in the other#@direction for me. Yes, I know there is not#@a gun held#@to each owner's#@head to pay those salaries but I feel the players are about to kill the goose laying golden#@eggs."

This seems to strongly suggest that.

[orioles70]

Originally Posted by JustinVerlander07

"I love#@baseball as much as anybody, been a huge fan for 50+ years and feel there was definitely a time when#@players were underpaid#@but#@huge#@guaranteed contracts#@regardless of performance or injury have taken things too far in the other#@direction for me. Yes, I know there is not#@a gun held#@to each owner's#@head to pay those salaries but I feel the players are about to kill the goose laying golden#@eggs."



This seems to strongly suggest that.

Sir, you seem to have confused suggestion with opinion.

sug·ges·tion
noun
plural noun:#@suggestions
an idea or plan put forward for consideration.

o·pin·ion
noun
a view or judgment formed about something,

Might I suggest you consult a dictionary before forming an opinion on your choice of words

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[JustinVerlander07]

Originally Posted by orioles70

Sir, you seem to have confused suggestion with opinion.

sug·ges·tion
noun
plural noun:#@suggestions
an idea or plan put forward for consideration.

o·pin·ion
noun
a view or judgment formed about something,

Might I suggest you consult a dictionary before forming an opinion on your choice of words

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So your OPINION is players should get less money? You're arguing semantics at this point.

[CalCub]

Originally Posted by JustinVerlander07

So you are suggesting the players should take less money in the future so the owners can pocket more money?

No, he's obviously saying that MLB players get paid damn well, even entry level players @ minimum salary, and that the players should do their part and show the fans that they are willing to make sacrifices too, because the owners are already taking a big hit with no ticket sales, millions of fans across the country have lost their jobs, taken pay cuts to keep their job, and live paycheck to paycheck, yet players think they should not have to take any cuts to help give the fans a longer baseball season & or ensure that there will be a playoff season with low risk of getting canceled, that's greedy, and the reason they think they can get away with it, is because of people like you who give the players a free pass because you admire them so much.

What about all the essential workers that orioles70 mentioned? It's time the public holds the players, agents & union bosses accountable