2013 BC Kris Bryant Wave autos

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by THE(NEXT)LEVEL

I read(maybe you didn't get my sarcasm), but for you to be 100 percent that Topps did the right thing with Bryant, when you assume that the 2013 cards weren't signed in 2013/early 2014 is very contradictory. If you knew that Bryant absolutely signed the 2013 Draft in 2013, would you feel the same way?

There was no sarcasm. It was just a bogus sentence.

And I'm not 100% on anything; I'm simply offering my opinion based on the evidence presented. Topps has never held back another player; printed two sets of prospect autos to be released (or hold them for another purpose). For the 10th time, I'm not going to argue in their corner about a lot of the decisions they've made but in this particular instance, what wrong did they commit? Not everything has to be about a pattern of behavior.

[THE(NEXT)LEVEL]

Originally Posted by Natitude

Not sure if this has anything to do with this, but at least we know that Bryant had the 2013 card(s) in his possession to sign on Oct. 10, 2013.

https://twitter.com/KrisBryant_23/st...54420971585536

No this has a lot to do with it. Thanks for the find.

[Bob Loblaw]

Originally Posted by THE(NEXT)LEVEL

No this has a lot to do with it. Thanks for the find.

It proves NOTHING.

It proves that he HAD the card at the end of 2013. It doesn't prove that he signed them, it doesn't prove that he had an agreement with Topps to sign them, and it doesn't prove that Topps got them back in OCtober, 2013.

[Bob Loblaw]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

Bob Loblaw + AuctionJMM + NeedChapmans on the same side of a debate.

Wow. WOW.

If the three of us are united, it's amazing that anyone dares oppose us.

If I hadn't gone to a spring training game with my son today, then coached my other son's 1st football practice tonight, this thread would have been another 5 pages.

[THE(NEXT)LEVEL]

Originally Posted by Bob Loblaw

It proves NOTHING.

It proves that he HAD the card at the end of 2013. It doesn't prove that he signed them, it doesn't prove that he had an agreement with Topps to sign them, and it doesn't prove that Topps got them back in OCtober, 2013.

So let's see, the superfractor was eventually signed. I guess Bryant held it for months before he decided to sign, like you know, when baseball season starts up, and he had the time to. Plus doesn't a rep from Topps go to a lot of these player signings. Maybe he/she shacked up with Kris for the winter. Plus Bob, he signed cards for Bowman Black that were released in 2013, so I'd be willing to assume that Topps had an agreement for these. Either way, they could have been redemptions in draft, bc he obviously signed at latest in the next few months for 2014 Bowman.

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by THE(NEXT)LEVEL

So let's see, the superfractor was eventually signed. I guess Bryant held it for months before he decided to sign, like you know, when baseball season starts up, and he had the time to. Plus doesn't a rep from Topps go to a lot of these player signings. Maybe he/she shacked up with Kris for the winter. Plus Bob, he signed cards for Bowman Black that were released in 2013, so I'd be willing to assume that Topps had an agreement for these.

Donte Moncrief signed his '14 National Treasures and '14 Immaculate RPA's for Panini, and for 18 months, I've been waiting on him to sign his Contenders autos; hearing that it's likely not going to happen. Two off-seasons and nothing but time to take 4 hours and get these cards signed, here I wait. Contenders was released before the other two by the way, how does that make any sense?

So simply because a player signs for one set, means absolutely nothing when it comes to signing for others. You're making assumptions that are just not correct.

[THE(NEXT)LEVEL]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

Donte Moncrief signed his '14 National Treasures and '14 Immaculate RPA's for Panini, and for 18 months, I've been waiting on him to sign his Contenders autos; hearing that it's likely not going to happen. Two off-seasons and nothing but time to take 4 hours and get these cards signed, here I wait. Contenders was released before the other two by the way, how does that make any sense?

So simply because a player signs for one set, means absolutely nothing when it comes to signing for others. You're making assumptions that are just not correct.

Maybe he didn't have them in hand like Bryant obviously did, and Bryant obviously did sign his 2013s, because they were inserted into 2014 product! Do you think he signed them in season?

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by THE(NEXT)LEVEL

Maybe he didn't have them in hand like Bryant obviously did, and Bryant obviously did sign his 2013s, because they were inserted into 2014 product! Do you think he signed them in season?

Do you know how many times you've said the word "Maybe" today?

[THE(NEXT)LEVEL]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

Do you know how many times you've said the word "Maybe" today?

How's this. Bryant's first insertions of these cards were for Bowman Inception, which had a release date of 7/27/2014. The autos were promoted months before this. So let's assume Kris signed these the night before release, then obviously they were signed between 10/13-7/14. I'm willing to bet that these were signed before the season, so either in October or shortly thereafter. I figure maybe throwing some dates out will allow you to see your points about him not returning them on time are invalid.

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by THE(NEXT)LEVEL

How's this. Bryant's first insertions of these cards were for Bowman Inception, which had a release date of 7/27/2014. The autos were promoted months before this. So let's assume Kris signed these the night before release, then obviously they were signed between 10/13-7/14. I'm willing to bet that these were signed before the season, so either in October or shortly thereafter. I figure maybe throwing some dates out will allow you to see your points about him not returning them on time invalid.

You need to stop. Like, this is getting absolutely ridiculous kind of stop.

http://www.blowoutcards.com/forums/b...oes-exist.html

That thread was created 6.26.2014, the day before Bowman Inception was released. That is the very first time this forum was alerted to '13 Bryant draft cards being inserted into any other release. Your release date above is wrong. Your statement that "these autos were promoted months before" is wrong. Not a single soul knew these would be in there ... as the thread reads, everyone was shocked to see they existed.

These were not promoted by Topps in any way to sell more cases of Bowman Inception. They did not promote Kris Bryant in this release in any way, shape or form, other than to say "Yea, we put them in there".

STOP!

[THE(NEXT)LEVEL]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

You need to stop. Like, this is getting absolutely ridiculous kind of stop.

http://www.blowoutcards.com/forums/b...oes-exist.html

That thread was created 6.26.2014, the day before Bowman Inception was released. That is the very first time this forum was alerted to '13 Bryant draft cards being inserted into any other release. Your release date above is wrong. Your statement that "these autos were promoted months before" is wrong. Not a single soul knew these would be in there ... as the thread reads, everyone was shocked to see they existed.

These were not promoted by Topps in any way to sell more cases of Bowman Inception. They did not promote Kris Bryant in this release in any way, shape or form, other than to say "Yea, we put them in there".

STOP!

Lmfao, so basically you are saying the release was one month earlier than I stated. Thanks for the correction(I was going by a previous release calendar, which was off) So he signed between 10/13-6/14. Even if they didn't promote it, it's still the date range for him to sign. Cmon man, you need to stop. When do you think in this time would be optimal for a professional baseball player to sign?

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by THE(NEXT)LEVEL

Lmfao, so basically you are saying the release was one month earlier than I stated. So he signed between 10/13-6/14. Even if they didn't promote it, it's still the date range for him to sign. Cmon man, you need to stop.

You said Topps promoted the autos "months before hand". You're just making stuff up to suit your argument; ignoring the facts. Topps did they exact opposite.

[THE(NEXT)LEVEL]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

You said Topps promoted the autos "months before hand". You're just making stuff up to suit your argument; ignoring the facts. Topps did they exact opposite.

No lets go back to my original point, which speaking of reading posts, if you read mine, you would see that I was saying these could have been inserted into draft as at least a redemption. Period! The dates back up my case. Thats the point. So what month in that range would you assume that he would sign them? You, Bobby, and others are claiming that these were signed much later.
Your whole point was that Topps didn't include the 2013 Bryants in Draft as redemptions, bc they didn't want to be caught not being able to fulfill them. Well it is already fact, that he not only signed his 2013 cards, but also his 2014 Bowman between the months of 10/13 and 6/2014. Considering that he also signed cards in 2013(AFLAC, Bowman Black), and that all of these 2013/2014's were signed in that timeframe, I highly doubt that Topps had any concern, that Bryant wouldn't sign before they released draft and be able to include him as redemptions. In that timeframe, it is also most likely that he signed in the offseason(Twitter pic), so that means the redemptions in draft, would have been fulfilled in a couple months, if that.

[hermanotarjeta]

Topps should have destroyed the 2013s and never put them in any products. Keep the 2014 as the first card and maintain their integrity. This will bite them in the rear for the future- you simply can't trust them anymore to play by the unspoken rules of the hobby.

[Bob Loblaw]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

Do you know how many times you've said the word "Maybe" today?

nsfw

[Bob Loblaw]

Originally Posted by hermanotarjeta

Topps should have destroyed the 2013s and never put them in any products. Keep the 2014 as the first card and maintain their integrity. This will bite them in the rear for the future- you simply can't trust them anymore to play by the unspoken rules of the hobby.

LOLOLOLOL

/thread

[Bob Loblaw]

Originally Posted by THE(NEXT)LEVEL

No lets go back to my original point, which speaking of reading posts, if you read mine, you would see that I was saying these could have been inserted into draft as at least a redemption. Period! The dates back up my case. Thats the point. So what month in that range would you assume that he would sign them? You, Bobby, and others are claiming that these were signed much later.
Your whole point was that Topps didn't include the 2013 Bryants in Draft as redemptions, bc they didn't want to be caught not being able to fulfill them. Well it is already fact, that he not only signed his 2013 cards, but also his 2014 Bowman between the months of 10/13 and 6/2014. Considering that he also signed cards in 2013(AFLAC, Bowman Black), and that all of these 2013/2014's were signed in that timeframe, I highly doubt that Topps had any concern, that Bryant wouldn't sign before they released draft and be able to include him as redemptions. In that timeframe, it is also most likely that he signed in the offseason(Twitter pic), so that means the redemptions in draft, would have been fulfilled in a couple months, if that.

Dude. . . just stop. This goes back to my post 10 pages ago. You have no idea what type of contract Topps had with Bryant. You have no idea when the cards were signed and when they were sent back. You have no idea. Period.

But MAAAAYBE....

[auctionjmm]

Originally Posted by hermanotarjeta

Topps should have destroyed the 2013s and never put them in any products. Keep the 2014 as the first card and maintain their integrity. This will bite them in the rear for the future- you simply can't trust them anymore to play by the unspoken rules of the hobby.

Yes, rules that were created by collectors, for collectors. Topps didn't have a say in that. They've bended many times to appease the people but this was one case where they had 2 million dollars in cards that were already paid for, and they needed to make an executive decision. I'm fine with that.

The young guys in this thread may not get it, but those 30+ should. Once upon a time, the collector had zero interaction with the card companies. They produced the crap out of product and nobody really knew how much was out there. We saw this with inflated rookie prices in the 80's and 90's. When eBay came around, the secret was out and the market crashed.

Since that time, collectors have demanded more transparency (as rainbowkiller asks) and Topps for the most part has obliged by providing odds and sell sheets and pre-release sneak peaks that had never been done before. Topps essentially allowed customers into their virtual backroom and customers have been helping Topps make decisions ever since, which did NOT happen from 1952-2002.

At some point, the consumer started to undermine the manufacturer and internet forums have become breeding grounds for that type of behavior. Now when someone has an issue with Topps (even if it is something minor like a collation issue or a missing hit), they take their beef to the internet, publicize it, tweet the hell out of Topps, etc. and demand instant gratification. Now multiply that by dozens of times per day and Topps must be thinking "Look at these monsters we've created." My wife works in customer service and couldn't be a nicer girl, but she gets her head chewed off daily over the phone and has had nights where she came home in tears. I know how bad it can get, I imagine Topps employees get it worse.

To be fair, as NeedsChapmans is one who did publicize his drama with Topps, there are certainly outlying cases that are not handled appropriately by the top and at some point need to be made public or turned into a legal situation. I can appreciate the usefulness of an internet forum when you have a borderline illegal situation with tens of thousands of dollars on the line, but these situations are not common. For the most part, for most collectors, breakers, LCS, etc....things do run pretty smoothly. I've been breaking cases since late 2010 and I can count on one hand the number of issues I've had with product, ALL of which were dealt with after I sent a kind, typed letter to Topps and received prompt attention to my requests. That's why I am still a customer and that's why I have few demands. I take the good with the bad, knowing that my overall experience has been good.

So back to the topic at hand, the reality is that Topps doesn't owe anyone an explanation. It doesn't matter when these were signed, or how they were issued, or whether they are graded. As far as Topps is concerned, this card never existed in the first place. It was their kind gesture that led to the card being unofficially released. Did it break the unwritten hobby rules of "1st Bowman" card? Yes. Did it hurt the value of his 2014 auto? Yes. BUT, that is because the unwritten rules of the hobby got in the way and made it that way. Collectors could have just as easily ignored the 2013 card and placed emphasis on 2014, but they CHOSE not to. Collectors CHOSE to overvalue the 2013 version and that's why so many other collectors are so darn ticked at Topps right now.

So in the end, be thankful that Topps even listens to any of us in the first place. Or we could always go back to 1990 when there was no transparency and 50,000 cases of product with no value. Which option would you like?

[Doublexthebeast]

This is a very entertaining thread at the least. Keep up the good work guys

We need all the entertainment we can get but the discussion has to be completed by Opening Day........deal? Carry On.

[THE(NEXT)LEVEL]

Originally Posted by Bob Loblaw

Dude. . . just stop. This goes back to my post 10 pages ago. You have no idea what type of contract Topps had with Bryant. You have no idea when the cards were signed and when they were sent back. You have no idea. Period.

But MAAAAYBE....

Shouldn't you be lowballing someone on ebay? I don't know how you cannot follow the dates, the date range is plain as day. It had to be within that time. I seem to have a better idea than you, so MAYBE you should brush up on your lawyering skills.

[rainbowkiller]

Originally Posted by hermanotarjeta

Topps should have destroyed the 2013s and never put them in any products. Keep the 2014 as the first card and maintain their integrity. This will bite them in the rear for the future- you simply can't trust them anymore to play by the unspoken rules of the hobby.

Exactly. They should've cut them up and use them as cut autos! Everyone knows Topps would have destroyed the autos of a lesser player.

There's no room for even a hint of impropriety here.

[Bob Loblaw]

Originally Posted by THE(NEXT)LEVEL

Shouldn't you be lowballing someone on ebay? I don't know how you cannot follow the dates, the date range is plain as day. It had to be within that time. I seem to have a better idea than you, so MAYBE you should brush up on your lawyering skills.

And here we are with the Donald Trump approach. If you can't win with the facts, insult them numerous times in the same message.

I'm done with this guy.

[Jaypers]

Originally Posted by Bob Loblaw

I'm done with this guy.

You sure? Or just maybe?

[THE(NEXT)LEVEL]

Originally Posted by Bob Loblaw

And here we are with the Donald Trump approach. If you can't win with the facts, insult them numerous times in the same message.

I'm done with this guy.

LMAO you were just posting videos and mocking me for using the word maybe. Shouldn't throw stones, when living in a glass house Bobby. As far as being done with me, good. Please put me on block.

[THE(NEXT)LEVEL]

Originally Posted by Jaypers

You sure? Or just maybe?

I think most likely maybe.