✹The PERENNIAL Shohei Ohtani Thread✹

[ThoseBackPages]

here come the BOOMERS!

[dodgerfanjohn]

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

here come the BOOMERS!

I tried explaining this elsewhere on the world wide interwebs and was roundly dismissed. “Oh, there’s too many different cards”.

Bull sheet.

Dude is past the Mick, Griffey, and Ryan in terms of the hobby, and in baseball lore is currently challenging Ruth. It’s that real. He is taking down his 4th mvl this year, has a legit chance at a second World Series title, and everyone is looking forward to see what he will do with 30 starts next year. And like others are pointing out, he is still at his peak.

The comps are Tom Brady and Michael Jordan, not anything the baseball universe has seen before. Hate all you want, Shotani is worldwide. I wish I had the foresight to scoop up everything in sight during the 2020-21 offseason. But I didn’t. That’s ok. I’m happy with the small stash of low end cards I pulled from packs in 2018 and the NOW cards I did have the foresight to buy. Congrats to those that did have the foresight. I’m consistently in awe of True Blues great collection.

And guess what, I’m pretty damn sure my 7 year old nephew will be thrilled to have the Ohtani cards I do have 20 years from now or whenever it is I do kick the bucket.

[blackvodka]

Ohtani is THE MAN right now. No doubt about that.

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[ThoseBackPages]

well said John.

i think globally he is bigger than Brady (i know, i know) and only Michael is head of him

[ThoseBackPages]

during the pandemic there was a "Lebron's Lakers Rookie Card" pump. it was pretty funny

for those who think they are "priced out" of collecting Ohtani there are numerous 2024 (his 1st Dodgers cards) Options.

this time around i dont see it as "haha funny"

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by dunquixote1

I mean, yes, his cards are going to rip here for the next few days. But I don’t think it’s going to be the “high”. He’s officially entered Jordan status. And I’d argue he may have passed Ruth as far as being regarded as the MLB GOAT goes. I’ve got some biggish/fun Ohtanis…but you’d have to pry them from my cold dead hands at this point. It’s possible they just become heirlooms for my kids at this point or something to sell when I decide to retire. IDK. Just my interest in selling his stuff tuff is dwindling as he becomes more cemented as the GOAT. Over the years I’ve always dreamt of going back when Jordan played and just being able to pick up nice ones that are unaffordable now. Not just RCs, but just nice ones in general. Well, Ohtani is that Jordan equivalent now. And he’s in his prime. And now’s the chance to relive my regrets. And people like me should be thankful they’re in the financial position they’re in to just “hold” and collect.

No offense, but this is total nonsense. Jordan had 6 -- 6! -- finals MVPs. Ohtani has a career .225 batting average and 0.49 WPA (hitting and pitching) in the postseason. For comparison, Albert Pujols had a .319 batting average and 2.64 WPA in the postseason.

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by blackbears86

He probably had one of the greatest, if not THE greatest game ever in the post-season last night, he's headed to another world series and will likely win his fourth MVP award soon.

Jack Morris in game 7 of the 1991 World Series -- 10 IP, 0 R, CG, 0.80 WPA, 77.6 cWPA!!!

David Freese in game 6 of the 2011 World Series -- 0.964 WPA, 51.84 cWPA

Shohei Ohtani in game 4 (4!) of the 2025 NLCS -- 0.379 WPA, 2.2 cWPA

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by Trueblue

He debuted stateside at age 23. He's not closer to 27 like Ichiro was in 2001.

His counting stats and WAR are superior to 97% of active players. He's averaging right under 7 bWAR a year between undergoing two TJ surgeries and a COVID shortened year. He also played six of those years as an Angel with pretty much zero supporting cast after his rookie year. And that's before you account for the TWP thing.

The answer to your question is "No," barring a Mike Trout-like drop off as he gets deeper into his 30s. That's however unlikely, as he is a sleep and recovery fanatic that tracks everything he does and puts into his body. Indication is that he's going to age closer to Ichiro than Trout, which allows him to produce positively through the entirety of his contact.

Feel better?

If he continues to pitch, he'll continue to experience arm injuries -- he's already had two Tommy John surgeries and has only pitched a total of 528.2 innings in MLB. For comparison, Jacob deGrom, who has also had two TJ surgeries and throws just as hard as Ohtani, has pitched a total of 1,539.2 innings in MLB.

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by dodgerfanjohn

I tried explaining this elsewhere on the world wide interwebs and was roundly dismissed. “Oh, there’s too many different cards”.

Bull sheet.

Dude is past the Mick, Griffey, and Ryan in terms of the hobby, and in baseball lore is currently challenging Ruth. It’s that real. He is taking down his 4th mvl this year, has a legit chance at a second World Series title, and everyone is looking forward to see what he will do with 30 starts next year. And like others are pointing out, he is still at his peak.

The comps are Tom Brady and Michael Jordan, not anything the baseball universe has seen before. Hate all you want, Shotani is worldwide. I wish I had the foresight to scoop up everything in sight during the 2020-21 offseason. But I didn’t. That’s ok. I’m happy with the small stash of low end cards I pulled from packs in 2018 and the NOW cards I did have the foresight to buy. Congrats to those that did have the foresight. I’m consistently in awe of True Blues great collection.

And guess what, I’m pretty damn sure my 7 year old nephew will be thrilled to have the Ohtani cards I do have 20 years from now or whenever it is I do kick the bucket.

Okay, let's break this down. Firstly, he won't pitch 30 games next season -- the most he's pitched in a season was 28 because he never pitches with less than 5 days of rest. And the Dodgers are not going to risk getting him injured, either -- they will limit his workload during the regular season.

Secondly, Ohtani is nowhere close to being in the conversation of Brady or Jordan -- Brady has 7 rings and Jordan has 6. Brady has 5 Super Bowl MVPs and Jordan has 6 Finals MVPs. Ohtani has one ring playing on a stacked team and no World Series MVPs.

Ohtani currently has career total of 51.5 bWAR. He will be lucky -- very lucky -- to reach 100 bWAR. Once he does that, he will still be lightyears behind Willie Mays' 156.2 bWAR. He will also be lightyears behind Mays' career 660 home runs and 3,293 hits. And he will have to dream about Willie Mays' 12 Gold Glove Awards.

[BigL7370]

You make it sound like Ohtani has to reach those thresholds - he is a unicorn on his own and part of the narrative has been written in his favor.

It almost doesn’t matter that he isn’t really like Jordan or Brady as far as rings go or will ever even come close to Mays as far as sheer player value.

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

Okay, let's break this down. Firstly, he won't pitch 30 games next season -- the most he's pitched in a season was 28 because he never pitches with less than 5 days of rest. And the Dodgers are not going to risk getting him injured, either -- they will limit his workload during the regular season.

Secondly, Ohtani is nowhere close to being in the conversation of Brady or Jordan -- Brady has 7 rings and Jordan has 6. Brady has 5 Super Bowl MVPs and Jordan has 6 Finals MVPs. Ohtani has one ring playing on a stacked team and no World Series MVPs.

Ohtani currently has career total of 51.5 bWAR. He will be lucky -- very lucky -- to reach 100 bWAR. Once he does that, he will still be lightyears behind Willie Mays' 156.2 bWAR. He will also be lightyears behind Mays' career 660 home runs and 3,293 hits. And he will have to dream about Willie Mays' 12 Gold Glove Awards.

[BoSoxFan1999]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

Okay, let's break this down. Firstly, he won't pitch 30 games next season -- the most he's pitched in a season was 28 because he never pitches with less than 5 days of rest. And the Dodgers are not going to risk getting him injured, either -- they will limit his workload during the regular season.

Secondly, Ohtani is nowhere close to being in the conversation of Brady or Jordan -- Brady has 7 rings and Jordan has 6. Brady has 5 Super Bowl MVPs and Jordan has 6 Finals MVPs. Ohtani has one ring playing on a stacked team and no World Series MVPs.

Ohtani currently has career total of 51.5 bWAR. He will be lucky -- very lucky -- to reach 100 bWAR. Once he does that, he will still be lightyears behind Willie Mays' 156.2 bWAR. He will also be lightyears behind Mays' career 660 home runs and 3,293 hits. And he will have to dream about Willie Mays' 12 Gold Glove Awards.

Sounds like someone trying to cope with selling on Ohtani too early.

[thenightman]

Originally Posted by BoSoxFan1999

If Topps was a legitimate sports card company they would make a Topps Now card of this image.

[SidVish]

Originally Posted by thenightman

If Topps was a legitimate sports card company they would make a Topps Now card of this image.

I think there was also a camera angle that caught the Dodgers bench where Frreman had his hands on his head as well. I think Teoscar was on the field in awe. Just an awesome atmosphere.

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[Rage]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

Jack Morris in game 7 of the 1991 World Series -- 10 IP, 0 R, CG, 0.80 WPA, 77.6 cWPA!!!

David Freese in game 6 of the 2011 World Series -- 0.964 WPA, 51.84 cWPA

Shohei Ohtani in game 4 (4!) of the 2025 NLCS -- 0.379 WPA, 2.2 cWPA

Thank you for your expert analysis. I have decided to sell my Ohtani collection for some Jack Morris and David Freese cards now that I have seen the light.

[BoSoxFan1999]

Originally Posted by Rage

Thank you for your expert analysis. I have decided to sell my Ohtani collection for some Jack Morris and David Freese cards now that I have seen the light.

Oh noes, I'm selling my 50/50 orange RPA for $3.50!!

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

during the pandemic there was a "Lebron's Lakers Rookie Card" pump. it was pretty funny

for those who think they are "priced out" of collecting Ohtani there are numerous 2024 (his 1st Dodgers cards) Options.

this time around i dont see it as "haha funny"

Correct. LeBron Lakers RC was a joke because he was never going to be remembered as a Laker. Ohtani will always be remembered as a Dodger. Not only that, his time with the Angels will be largely forgotten. All his major accomplishments are with the Dodgers. With the Angels, what do you remember other than being hurt, having to drag Trout’s carcass around, and never making the playoffs?

[SaveMeTheGum]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

If he continues to pitch, he'll continue to experience arm injuries -- he's already had two Tommy John surgeries and has only pitched a total of 528.2 innings in MLB. For comparison, Jacob deGrom, who has also had two TJ surgeries and throws just as hard as Ohtani, has pitched a total of 1,539.2 innings in MLB.

Lol, either you're off your meds or you're having a breakdown realizing Raleigh might win MVP. Or both. Just sit back and enjoy what Ohtani is doing.

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

Jack Morris in game 7 of the 1991 World Series -- 10 IP, 0 R, CG, 0.80 WPA, 77.6 cWPA!!!

David Freese in game 6 of the 2011 World Series -- 0.964 WPA, 51.84 cWPA

Shohei Ohtani in game 4 (4!) of the 2025 NLCS -- 0.379 WPA, 2.2 cWPA

WPA and cWPA???? Man, you're getting desperate with stats lol. Want to walk us through those calculations?

[NYRE2PECT]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

Correct. LeBron Lakers RC was a joke because he was never going to be remembered as a Laker. Ohtani will always be remembered as a Dodger. Not only that, his time with the Angels will be largely forgotten. All his major accomplishments are with the Dodgers. With the Angels, what do you remember other than being hurt, having to drag Trout’s carcass around, and never making the playoffs?

He hit for the cycle as an Angel, and two of his three (soon to be four) MVP's.

Don't you take that away from me/us.

[ldunn44]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

Jack Morris in game 7 of the 1991 World Series -- 10 IP, 0 R, CG, 0.80 WPA, 77.6 cWPA!!!

David Freese in game 6 of the 2011 World Series -- 0.964 WPA, 51.84 cWPA

Shohei Ohtani in game 4 (4!) of the 2025 NLCS -- 0.379 WPA, 2.2 cWPA

Jack Morris ??? I doubt most people around the world even know that name.

David Freese ??? Same thing — hardly a global name.

Shohei Ohtani, on the other hand, has become a true icon. Even people who don’t care about baseball know who he is.

A lasting legacy or becoming an iconic figure isn’t just about awards or achievements  it’s about attitude, presence, and charisma.

Take Kobe Bryant as an example. He wasn’t the player with the most titles in NBA history, but he’s still one of the most iconic Lakers of all time.

I can understand you feel frustrated because you missed the Ohtani train  but it’s never too late to see the light and join us.

[Rs17]

Interesting article about Ohtani and the Dodgers in the New Yorker (of all places).

https://www.newyorker.com/sports/spo...ight-to-behold




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[robert0629]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

Okay, let's break this down. Firstly, he won't pitch 30 games next season -- the most he's pitched in a season was 28 because he never pitches with less than 5 days of rest. And the Dodgers are not going to risk getting him injured, either -- they will limit his workload during the regular season.

Secondly, Ohtani is nowhere close to being in the conversation of Brady or Jordan -- Brady has 7 rings and Jordan has 6. Brady has 5 Super Bowl MVPs and Jordan has 6 Finals MVPs. Ohtani has one ring playing on a stacked team and no World Series MVPs.

Ohtani currently has career total of 51.5 bWAR. He will be lucky -- very lucky -- to reach 100 bWAR. Once he does that, he will still be lightyears behind Willie Mays' 156.2 bWAR. He will also be lightyears behind Mays' career 660 home runs and 3,293 hits. And he will have to dream about Willie Mays' 12 Gold Glove Awards.

Sandy Koufax isn't close to Steve Carlton in career WAR, and he has half as many career wins, and yet when I Google the greatest starting pitchers of all time, I often find Koufax listed among Carlton and the other all time greats. What's even more interesting is that Koufax did nothing his first six seasons in the majors. Believe it or not, Koufax actually had a losing record after his first six seasons. It was his last six seasons that were so incredible in gets him in the GOAT pitcher conversation. Sandy Koufax built a GOAT pitcher case on only six seasons!

[cbeauch87]

Someone bought my 2018 Update White Jersey PSA 9 at full price on ebay last night.

[ThoseBackPages]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

Jack Morris in game 7 of the 1991 World Series -- 10 IP, 0 R, CG, 0.80 WPA, 77.6 cWPA!!!

David Freese in game 6 of the 2011 World Series -- 0.964 WPA, 51.84 cWPA

Shohei Ohtani in game 4 (4!) of the 2025 NLCS -- 0.379 WPA, 2.2 cWPA

this is insane and indicative of someone out of touch with the hobby

[SidVish]

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

this is insane and indicative of someone out of touch with the hobby

It's so off base and incorrect. The only thing missing was a Dale Murphy reference.

The thing with Sho is he won't have the all time stats of the games greatest hitters or pitchers. That's pretty obvious. The remarkable thing is his peak ability is being awesome at both hitting and pitching. I mean if you don't understand that there's no helping you.

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[Hellcat]

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

well said John.

i think globally he is bigger than Brady (i know, i know) and only Michael is head of him

Kobe says hi! He's beloved all around the globe! For sure though Ohtani is on the short list and Mount Rushmore of athletes!