2020 Politics Thread - Enter At Your Own Risk - RULES IN OP

[wood minis]

Originally Posted by hairysasquatch

Excellent point. No matter what Trump does or says, NO ONE self-identifying as a person of the Left is going to give him any credit, much less play along, NO MATTER WHAT. It is what it is. This is what make's Cuomo's bleating about the lack of "national leadership" so preposterous. AS IF Cuomo would have complied with any kind of national plan handed down from the White House.

I know I sound 'left' given how appalled I am by Trump, but it's actually not the complete truth. For instance, I don't think it's possible to go green given the energy consumption needs of the world. And I believe in fiscal responsibility, once an important plank in the Republican platform. I would love to give Trump credit if I saw where that was justified. I just don't see it beyond the continuing good economy he inherited.

[cnewby]

Originally Posted by DegaBama

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ds/4787209002/

https://nj1015.com/is-dr-fauci-right...id-19-opinion/

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/fa...o-worry-about/

And then, of course, the no spread between humans that the WHO said.

You know what happened? Things changed. Even Trump says people should wear a mask.

Boom goes the dynamite.

[wood minis]

Originally Posted by DegaBama

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ds/4787209002/

https://nj1015.com/is-dr-fauci-right...id-19-opinion/

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/fa...o-worry-about/

And then, of course, the no spread between humans that the WHO said.

You know what happened? Things changed. Even Trump says people should wear a mask.

Thank you. That first video is a decent assessment of where things were at at the time. Unfortunately his concerns regarding it becoming a pandemic were realized.

[gopherfan]

Originally Posted by wood minis

Can you direct me to the video where Fauci said early on it wouldn't be a big deal?

And what is the President's plan now?

January 21 Newsmax interview:

On Jan. 21 - the day the first COVID-19 case in the U.S. was confirmed - Fauci appeared on conservative Newsmax TV. “Bottom line, we don’t have to worry about this one, right?” asked Greg Kelly, the host.

Fauci said, “Obviously, you need to take it seriously and do the kind of things the (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention) and the Department of Homeland Security is doing. But this is not a major threat to the people of the United States and this is not something that the citizens of the United States right now should be worried about.”

Sorry if I didn't have the exact quote correct.

[DegaBama]

If people want to blame Trump, that's fine. Blame the 50 Governors too. Can't have it both ways.

The only one I blame now, is Whitmer. Looking back, putting sick patients into nursing homes was stupid. However, at the time, people thought millions of Americans were going to die. Besides Michigan, I could be wrong, but no other state is still doing that.

[hairysasquatch]

Originally Posted by wood minis

I know I sound 'left' given how appalled I am by Trump, but it's actually not the complete truth. For instance, I don't think it's possible to go green given the energy consumption needs of the world. And I believe in fiscal responsibility, once an important plank in the Republican platform. I would love to give Trump credit if I saw where that was justified. I just don't see it beyond the continuing good economy he inherited.

And there it is. Faux objectivity. Nice try, Woody!

[hairysasquatch]

Originally Posted by DegaBama

If people want to blame Trump, that's fine. Blame the 50 Governors too. Can't have it both ways.

The only one I blame now, is Whitmer. Looking back, putting sick patients into nursing homes was stupid. However, at the time, people thought millions of Americans were going to die. Besides Michigan, I could be wrong, but no other state is still doing that.

Hey, what about the NURSING HOME KILLER??

[wood minis]

Originally Posted by hairysasquatch

And there it is. Faux objectivity. Nice try, Woody!

There's nothing faux about what I said. It's my view. You can disagree with what I said. That's fine.

[gopherfan]

Originally Posted by wood minis

You don't lock everyone in their houses. You make a non-partisan appeal to everyone and you have a plan. You want to hear a plan? How about in the beginning you stop allowing all flights into the country. Then you send out your stimulus so everyone can take a couple weeks to stock up on food for a month and then you lock it all down, essential workers included. The virus runs its course and you can set the stage for a reopen.

Above you said you don't lock everyone in their houses, but you follow that with "then you lock it all down, essential workers included." Can you imagine what people would be saying about him if he tried this? Antifa numbers would quadruple overnight and they would be right.

How do you tell American Citizens that they can't fly back into the country? Are you going to pay for their food and lodging abroad while you are keeping them out?

Sure, you'll have to have quarantine lodgings available when you reopen International travel, but we would be a lot further along than where we are now.

Some form of this is what it may ultimately take as suggested by Minneapolis Federal Reserve Bank President Neel Kashkari.

Where are we now? Heading into the Fall and schools reopening and who knows what from here.

Also, humans have an emotional component which ideally develops into emotional intelligence. Not all emotion is negative. To justifying a counter view saying they're all just responding emotionally is suspect.

It's like denigrating the term liberal which has meanings like: open to new behavior or opinions and willing to discard traditional values; concerned mainly with broadening a person's general knowledge and experience, rather than with technical or professional training.

I mean, I wouldn't denigrate the term conservative. I actually agree with fiscal conservatism which used to be a fundamental tenant of the Republican Party. Not spending more than you make is a sane approach to life.

Trump isn't a Republican. Agreed. He's a wanna be despot. If you want to give him free reign for the next 4 years because your 401k was going up, then good luck with that.

And last point, love the go to on the negotiated peace deal in the Middle East. Let's see where that's at in a year. I'm open to being pleasantly surprised.

Response in Bold.

[pac213up]

Originally Posted by gopherfan

January 21 Newsmax interview:

On Jan. 21 - the day the first COVID-19 case in the U.S. was confirmed - Fauci appeared on conservative Newsmax TV. “Bottom line, we don’t have to worry about this one, right?” asked Greg Kelly, the host.

Fauci said, “Obviously, you need to take it seriously and do the kind of things the (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention) and the Department of Homeland Security is doing. But this is not a major threat to the people of the United States and this is not something that the citizens of the United States right now should be worried about.”

Sorry if I didn't have the exact quote correct.

I believe he also said it could change.

And guess what....it did. And when it did we got caught with our pants down because our testing & testing capacity was a joke and we did not have PPE for our First responders. We had no chance. We did not prepare for the worst, we hoped for the best.

I am not sure that falls on Trump but it was a disaster at the Federal level and he is the guy running the show.

[gopherfan]

Originally Posted by pac213up

I believe he also said it could change.

And guess what....it did. And when it did we got caught with our pants down because our testing & testing capacity was a joke and we did not have PPE for our First responders. We had no chance. We did not prepare for the worst, we hoped for the best.

I am not sure that falls on Trump but it was a disaster at the Federal level and he is the guy running the show.

Of course it falls on Trump. He is the POTUS. And if he would have done anything like MiniWood suggested, he would have been pilloried. Even if there were zero cases and zero deaths. They would have said that he locked us down for nothing.

[hairysasquatch]

Originally Posted by wood minis

There's nothing faux about what I said. It's my view. You can disagree with what I said. That's fine.

The notion that Trump inherited the economy we had in February 2018 disqualifies you from being taken seriously. It's Orange Man Bad stuff. Can't bring yourself to give him credit for anything. Don't worry, it goes both ways. President Harris, should she win, is going to have plenty of people waiting to return that sentiment in kind. Politics of dysfunction full speed ahead.

[Clark]

Originally Posted by wood minis

As I've stated before in this thread, I've never been a Trump supporter. It was clear to me in the beginning when he ran for President that if he won his Presidency brought the risk of disaster. I've never felt that way before. His tendency to insult and his view on women was the biggest red flag to me. Hell, he made fun of a disabled person. Who does that?
I know folks are tired of politics as usual. I am too. But supporting this guy as the guy, I just don't get it on any level.

I don't believe he intentionally did. It is how he portrays incompetence.

[Clark]

Originally Posted by hairysasquatch

The notion that Trump inherited the economy we had in February 2018 disqualifies you from being taken seriously. It's Orange Man Bad stuff. Can't bring yourself to give him credit for anything. Don't worry, it goes both ways. President Harris, should she win, is going to have plenty of people waiting to return that sentiment in kind. Politics of dysfunction full speed ahead.

Agreed on the economy. Is there a Trump hater playbook out there? Next posts will go back to him calling Nazis "very fine people" and suggesting that Americans inject Clorox bleach.

[pac213up]

Originally Posted by gopherfan

Of course it falls on Trump. He is the POTUS. And if he would have done anything like MiniWood suggested, he would have been pilloried. Even if there were zero cases and zero deaths. They would have said that he locked us down for nothing.

Their is certainly some truth to that at least from the extremes. As much as I dislike the guy I think he is only part of the blame. Lots to go around across party lines. This pandemic has just highlighted how pathetic our government is and how inept the people we elect have become.

[DegaBama]

Originally Posted by Clark

Agreed on the economy. Is there a Trump hater playbook out there? Next posts will go back to him calling Nazis "very fine people" and suggesting that Americans inject Clorox bleach.

It is what it is.

Originally Posted by pac213up

Their is certainly some truth to that at least from the extremes. As much as I dislike the guy I think he is only part of the blame. Lots to go around across party lines. This pandemic has just highlighted how pathetic our government is and how inept the people we elect have become.

Yep, it's not about the good of our citizens. Just their parties.

[Athey49]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

Still funny.

Ok, that's pretty good

[wood minis]

Originally Posted by gopherfan

Response in Bold.

Lock it down simply means stay at home. No one is coming to lock you in your house. During our 'lockdown', I went out and about some, just not around other people beyond my family that I live with.

I think the no flights in idea is part of what would need to be done if you really wanted to have the virus run its course quickly. It could be adjusted in a way to give Americans abroad a window to come home if they wanted, but then yes, no flights in after that window closes.

Of course this didn't happen nor will it happen because there isn't anything like a consensus in our country. We are just going to have to wait and see what the Fall looks like once schools start up again.

[wood minis]

Originally Posted by hairysasquatch

The notion that Trump inherited the economy we had in February 2018 disqualifies you from being taken seriously. It's Orange Man Bad stuff. Can't bring yourself to give him credit for anything. Don't worry, it goes both ways. President Harris, should she win, is going to have plenty of people waiting to return that sentiment in kind. Politics of dysfunction full speed ahead.

I thought I did give him credit. I didn't say anything about 2018 though. Trump inherited a good economy when he won the election. He kept it going. How does mentioning the fact that there was a good economy when he took office disqualify me from being taken seriously?

Most Trump supporters point to the economy as the reason they support him, and particularly if they as individuals have benefited from the economy.

And yes, politics of dysfunction is the new norm for whoever wins. It's discouraging but unlikely to change.

[gopherfan]

Originally Posted by wood minis

I thought I did give him credit. I didn't say anything about 2018 though. Trump inherited a good economy when he won the election. He kept it going. How does mentioning the fact that there was a good economy when he took office disqualify me from being taken seriously?

Most Trump supporters point to the economy as the reason they support him, and particularly if they as individuals have benefited from the economy.

And yes, politics of dysfunction is the new norm for whoever wins. It's discouraging but unlikely to change.

While the Obama economy had turned a corner and was heading up, it was doing so very slowly. When Trump came in, the confidence in business owners increased, and they started investing more in their businesses and expanding. He loosened regulations which increased things even more. It was increasing a ton, until everything came to a screeching halt with Covid-19.

[Clark]

Apparently the jingle played by ice cream trucks has a racist past. Who knew?

https://www.latimes.com/entertainmen...eam-truck-song

[Hootiefish]

Originally Posted by kerg

I very much doubt that there is anything that Trump could have said to inspire those that hated him prior to this. The only way that had the potential to happen is if Dem leadership came out and said "Time for politics is over, need to have one voice coming from down and if that means Trump is re-elected, so be it" and then see what happens. But, the chances of that happening are somewhere between the sun rising in the west and me sprouting wings.

You can say that Trump wasn't a leader, but he had no chance of being this leader you wanted in the current political climate. None.

Perhaps it wouldn't have changed many minds, but he could've tried.

Instead he called the virus a political hoax when it was obvious it was anything but. No matter his intent with the comment, his supporters heard "virus" and "hoax," and many are still echoing that sentiment.

He could've worn a mask after it was shown to help prevent spread. He didn't, saying that he "didn't like how he looked in one."

He could've supported states locking down, like Michigan and Georgia, instead of tweeting out that they need to re-open, even though stats at the time showed that re-opening was not safe. Evidence has since born that out.

He could have not constantly tweeted out unsound medical advice from quack doctors, or not had stream-of-conscience press conferences, or not have undermined his medical team publicly at every turn.

He could've not held rallies. Or, if they were necessary for his ego, held them with strict guidelines in place, instead of mere suggestions.

He could've not done any of those things. Instead, he, per usual, made it about him, and it has led to a much worse situation.

Anyone that thinks that Trump has shown a bit of honest leadership during this crisis is in complete denial.

[DegaBama]

Originally Posted by Hootiefish

Perhaps it wouldn't have changed many minds, but he could've tried.

Instead he called the virus a political hoax when it was obvious it was anything but. No matter his intent with the comment, his supporters heard "virus" and "hoax," and many are still echoing that sentiment.

Yep, because it is. Joe Biden is literally using this to try and win the presidency.

He could've worn a mask after it was shown to help prevent spread. He didn't, saying that he "didn't like how he looked in one."

He could have

He could've supported states locking down, like Michigan and Georgia, instead of tweeting out that they need to re-open, even though stats at the time showed that re-opening was not safe. Evidence has since born that out.

It was never bad in Georgia, Michigan has major issues

He could have not constantly tweeted out unsound medical advice from quack doctors, or not had stream-of-conscience press conferences, or not have undermined his medical team publicly at every turn.

Like what? The only thing I can think of is hydroxychloroquine, and that has shown that it could be helpful

He could've not held rallies. Or, if they were necessary for his ego, held them with strict guidelines in place, instead of mere suggestions.

Disagree 100%. If you don't wanna go, don't go

He could've not done any of those things. Instead, he, per usual, made it about him, and it has led to a much worse situation.

Anyone that thinks that Trump has shown a bit of honest leadership during this crisis is in complete denial.

Responded above, the difference is... you don't need to tell me how to be healthy. Don't go visit grandma or my fat dad who has had heart surgery, and it'll be alright. For some reason, people needed the Government to tell them what to do.

[Hootiefish]

Originally Posted by DegaBama

Responded above, the difference is... you don't need to tell me how to be healthy. Don't go visit grandma or my fat dad who has had heart surgery, and it'll be alright. For some reason, people needed the Government to tell them what to do.

Then how come we've got story-after-story of Trump supporters saying they didn't realize how severe the virus was until they, or a family member, contracted it.

Just spit-balling, but I'd bet more Trump supporters have died of the virus since the shutdown ended (which was when we all should've know how to prevent the spread of the virus) than any other political affiliation.

That falls on him. If you're going to lead a cult, you better know how to lead. This is a circumstance where he should've been more Joel Osteen and less Jim Jones.

[Hootiefish]

Also, do you think it is a coincidence that Trump didn't start wearing a mask until his base started getting hit hard by the virus.

He couldn't of cared less when it was in New York and California - they didn't vote for him.

But when Southerners started dying, the mask went on.