2020 Politics Thread - Enter At Your Own Risk - RULES IN OP

[jcardstore]

Originally Posted by Zedlaw

The video screams more training: where's the speed, where's the communication, where's the strength. I've seen more tactical organization in youth paintball.

I support BLM for justice and oversight not immunity. Get the facts out there and let a qualified third party decide. Get community leaders and officers at the table together. Get something done.

I don't know what criminalizing protestors and stoking fear is doing. Is the current policy to just bunker down and wait for this to all blow over. If we've learned nothing else, another moment of deadly force will be taped and will be protested and the context of events will be lost. This isn't protecting officers, this is only making their job harder. All I saw in the video was a bunch of officers paralyzed from making a move and got a man shot. We need reform, why is no one talking. Even if all the shootings were completely justified, we can't have mass protests and buildings lit on fire after every news story. Listen to the community, this isn't radical, there are no protests without the rational participating.

I wholeheartedly agree with 95% of this post. Police are woefully undertrained both physically and mentally. Specifically an area that need to be addressed desperately is deescalation training. Just seems like police are trained to fire first ask questions later.

I wanted to talk about something that I bolded. the George Floyd BLM protests that were organized were peaceful, for the most part. What's going on now in Portland, Kenosha, Seattle, etc... are no longer protests. They are an excuse for anarchists, antifa, whatever you want to call them, to go out and destroy both government and private property.

I can even tolerate that to a certain extent. If you want to go out and destroy government buildings, whatever, not my style but I also don't really have an issue with it. I DO have a problem when that spills over to regular people, small businesses, private property etc... The people engaged in the rioting and looting of local businesses don't care about BLM or the movement. They're criminals who were just looking for an excuse to show it.

[ballhawkdawk]

Originally Posted by techtre2003

That one is terrible and hard to believe the cop got off with no charges.

It’s astounding how many times the cop gets off with no charges, regardless of the race of the victim.

[rhigh2390]

Originally Posted by jcardstore

I wholeheartedly agree with 95% of this post. Police are woefully undertrained both physically and mentally. Specifically an area that need to be addressed desperately is deescalation training. Just seems like police are trained to fire first ask questions later.

I wanted to talk about something that I bolded. the George Floyd BLM protests that were organized were peaceful, for the most part. What's going on now in Portland, Kenosha, Seattle, etc... are no longer protests. They are an excuse for anarchists, antifa, whatever you want to call them, to go out and destroy both government and private property.

I can even tolerate that to a certain extent. If you want to go out and destroy government buildings, whatever, not my style but I also don't really have an issue with it. I DO have a problem when that spills over to regular people, small businesses, private property etc... The people engaged in the rioting and looting of local businesses don't care about BLM or the movement. They're criminals who were just looking for an excuse to show it.

[jcardstore]

Originally Posted by rhigh2390

People have a legitimate reason to be angry at the police and government. If you look across human history no real, significant change comes peacefully.

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by jcardstore

People have a legitimate reason to be angry at the police and government. If you look across human history no real, significant change comes peacefully.

Quite an "I'm OK w/ the right kind of violence" stance you got goin' there.

Devalues everything you say.

[MIRRABB]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

Quite an "I'm OK w/ the right kind of violence" stance you got goin' there.

Devalues everything you say.

He's absolutely right. He also qualified his statement by saying it's unacceptable to destroy/loot local businesses.

[Yanks23]

Originally Posted by jcardstore

People have a legitimate reason to be angry at the police and government. If you look across human history no real, significant change comes peacefully.

Who do you think pays to fix all those govt buildings? I'm sure BLM and rioters will step up and pay.

[TheFrenzy]

When it comes to the violence accompanying many of the protests, often defenders will point to the Boston Tea Party and the American Revolution......but it's as if they forget that the response to that violence and destruction of property was Britain occupying cities with royal troops and then eight years of literal war. If you're going to appeal to the Sons of Liberty, you don't get to complain when the military shows up. That's just what happens.

When it comes to the United States, if we want to boil it down: We were born in violent protest and then we subsequently continued to improve ourselves through peaceful dissent grounded in conviction.

Peaceful protest + accommodating government = How it should be. Things get changed.

Peaceful protest + violent government = Tragic, but effective in democracies. The rest of the public and the international community often rallies to support.

Violent riots + passive government = Anarchy, mob rule, and lynchings.

Violent riots + violent government = Roll the dice. Anything from the restoration of law and order to civil war to revolution to massacres is possible. But this is the gamble you're taking.

[Yanks23]

Originally Posted by MIRRABB

He's absolutely right. He also qualified his statement by saying it's unacceptable to destroy/loot local businesses.

Again how is it ok to destroy public property? So you are ok with destroying certain buildings to make a point? I just cant get how people defend criminals. I guess it takes a special kind of person to be ok with these actions.

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by MIRRABB

He's absolutely right. He also qualified his statement by saying it's unacceptable to destroy/loot local businesses.

Wow, that's two of you now.

Appreciate you both labeling yourselves. Fortunate to live in a country (at least for now) that does not differ on what is and isn't allowed to be burned down.

[jcardstore]

Originally Posted by Yanks23

Who do you think pays to fix all those govt buildings? I'm sure BLM and rioters will step up and pay.

You're right, the tax payers will end up paying for it.

I'll rephrase what I said. I don't agree with the violence but I understand it.

[MIRRABB]

Originally Posted by TheFrenzy

When it comes to the violence accompanying many of the protests, often defenders will point to the Boston Tea Party and the American Revolution......but it's as if they forget that the response to that violence and destruction of property was Britain occupying cities with royal troops and then eight years of literal war. If you're going to appeal to the Sons of Liberty, you don't get to complain when the military shows up. That's just what happens.

When it comes to the United States, if we want to boil it down: We were born in violent protest and then we subsequently continued to improve ourselves through peaceful dissent grounded in conviction.

Peaceful protest + accommodating government = How it should be. Things get changed.

Peaceful protest + violent government = Tragic, but effective in democracies. The rest of the public and the international community often rallies to support.

Violent riots + passive government = Anarchy, mob rule, and lynchings.

Violent riots + violent government = Roll the dice. Anything from the restoration of law and order to civil war to revolution to massacres is possible. But this is the gamble you're taking.

That's an amazing take on American history, that sentence. Truly one of the best I've ever read.

[pingbling23]

We have a much bigger crime issue in this country. Far more murders, rapes, robberies then unjustified police shootings. Should we allow all the people tired of this to gather in mobs and destroy cities. I mean we understand it. Lawlessness solves nothing and is a detriment to us all. As far as the Castile shooting, I spoke openly about that on here at that time. Based on my research it was a justified shoot and a jury panel agreed with seeing every bit of fact and evidence to the case. Some see sensationalized headlines, read a biased and possibly untruthful story and develop their beliefs from that. I would like to think a jury selected by the defense and prosecution that has much more facts then us were able to make a reasonable decision. If we were at a point where officers were out there widespread murdering in cold blood with absolutely no justification then sure, burn the country to the ground because that’s not America. We have cases of criminals being non compliant, having weapons, and enough drugs in their system to cause overdoses and we’re hanging the ones we call for help out to dry.

[rhigh2390]

Originally Posted by pingbling23

We have a much bigger crime issue in this country. Far more murders, rapes, robberies then unjustified police shootings. Should we allow all the people tired of this to gather in mobs and destroy cities. I mean we understand it. Lawlessness solves nothing and is a detriment to us all. As far as the Castile shooting, I spoke openly about that on here at that time. Based on my research it was a justified shoot and a jury panel agreed with seeing every bit of fact and evidence to the case. Some see sensationalized headlines, read a biased and possibly untruthful story and develop their beliefs from that. I would like to think a jury selected by the defense and prosecution that has much more facts then us were able to make a reasonable decision. If we were at a point where officers were out there widespread murdering in cold blood with absolutely no justification then sure, burn the country to the ground because that’s not America. We have cases of criminals being non compliant, having weapons, and enough drugs in their system to cause overdoses and we’re hanging the ones we call for help out to dry.

[Jopeal]

Originally Posted by pingbling23

We have a much bigger crime issue in this country. Far more murders, rapes, robberies then unjustified police shootings. Should we allow all the people tired of this to gather in mobs and destroy cities. I mean we understand it. Lawlessness solves nothing and is a detriment to us all. As far as the Castile shooting, I spoke openly about that on here at that time. Based on my research it was a justified shoot and a jury panel agreed with seeing every bit of fact and evidence to the case. Some see sensationalized headlines, read a biased and possibly untruthful story and develop their beliefs from that. I would like to think a jury selected by the defense and prosecution that has much more facts then us were able to make a reasonable decision. If we were at a point where officers were out there widespread murdering in cold blood with absolutely no justification then sure, burn the country to the ground because that’s not America. We have cases of criminals being non compliant, having weapons, and enough drugs in their system to cause overdoses and we’re hanging the ones we call for help out to dry.

How was the Castile shooting justified? Please do tell.

[TheHeel]

Savvy businessman

Trump payroll plan would deplete Social Security by 2023: Administrator

https://thehill.com/policy/finance/5...-administrator

[babyfaceposey]

Originally Posted by TheHeel

Savvy businessman

Trump payroll plan would deplete Social Security by 2023: Administrator

https://thehill.com/policy/finance/5...-administrator

“This will have no impact on Social Security,” Trump said, adding the program would be replenished by the General Fund. “We protect Social Security.”

[jcardstore]

Originally Posted by pingbling23

We have a much bigger crime issue in this country. Far more murders, rapes, robberies then unjustified police shootings. Should we allow all the people tired of this to gather in mobs and destroy cities. I mean we understand it. Lawlessness solves nothing and is a detriment to us all. As far as the Castile shooting, I spoke openly about that on here at that time. Based on my research it was a justified shoot and a jury panel agreed with seeing every bit of fact and evidence to the case. Some see sensationalized headlines, read a biased and possibly untruthful story and develop their beliefs from that. I would like to think a jury selected by the defense and prosecution that has much more facts then us were able to make a reasonable decision. If we were at a point where officers were out there widespread murdering in cold blood with absolutely no justification then sure, burn the country to the ground because that’s not America. We have cases of criminals being non compliant, having weapons, and enough drugs in their system to cause overdoses and we’re hanging the ones we call for help out to dry.

I agree but do you also not agree that we have a major issue with policing in the US?

I believe that there should be an independent group to set out a national policy on policing (training, standards, etc...). There's no federal standard that all cities have to adhere to so setting one would be a good place to start.

Obviously police need to have a physical standard. Anecdotally there seems to be a somewhat significant number of out of shape looking guys who are cops. There also needs to be ongoing mental health evals. They need way way more training. It's really really sad how much yearly training police are required to take. Some states don't require any hours of training per year and the most I found was 40 hours per year of required training. How crazy is that.

[babyfaceposey]

Originally Posted by jcardstore

I agree but do you also not agree that we have a major issue with policing in the US?

I believe that there should be an independent group to set out a national policy on policing (training, standards, etc...). There's no federal standard that all cities have to adhere to so setting one would be a good place to start.

Obviously police need to have a physical standard. Anecdotally there seems to be a somewhat significant number of out of shape looking guys who are cops. There also needs to be ongoing mental health evals. They need way way more training. It's really really sad how much yearly training police are required to take. Some states don't require any hours of training per year and the most I found was 40 hours per year of required training. How crazy is that.

I think we have a problem with people not listening to police. 99% of the cops shootings wouldnt happen of people could follow orders.

[GeechQuest]

Originally Posted by JeremyNick

Why do taxpayers have to fund their retirement? Pensions are community liabilities that add to taxpayer cost and detract from providing actual services to the communities, which is the reason for taxes. So instead of my money going back into actual education, services or police - it’s funding retirement pensions. That’s asinine.

Are they unable to do it own their own?

It’s bad enough that we have to pay their union dues.

..........

[rhigh2390]

Originally Posted by jcardstore

I agree but do you also not agree that we have a major issue with policing in the US?

I believe that there should be an independent group to set out a national policy on policing (training, standards, etc...). There's no federal standard that all cities have to adhere to so setting one would be a good place to start.

Obviously police need to have a physical standard. Anecdotally there seems to be a somewhat significant number of out of shape looking guys who are cops. There also needs to be ongoing mental health evals. They need way way more training. It's really really sad how much yearly training police are required to take. Some states don't require any hours of training per year and the most I found was 40 hours per year of required training. How crazy is that.

Just speaking for myself here. I disagree that there is a major, widespread issue. There have been instances where specific police officers have exercised bad judgement and should be held accountable. As a whole though, I do not at all think that the police are hunting down black people. Since people hear about the 10 that happen every year, they think it's daily, but do they not realize that police officers and citizens have millions of interactions every year without deadly force, including with black people? It's an agenda that the left wants to push. BLM protest regardless of if the shootings are justified, which just hurts their cause, in my opinion.

I'm still not sure why blacks don't do more to stop the black on black murder. It's so much of a bigger problem in their communities. I'd love to see a group like that started.

[rhigh2390]

Originally Posted by babyfaceposey

I think we have a problem with people not listening to police. 99% of the cops shootings wouldnt happen of people could follow orders.

100% agree

[Zedlaw]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

A terrible tragedy. But unless evidence comes to light otherwise, that's all it is.

A tragedy but also a clear display of the police system being reckless with black lives. I have no reason to believe the officers exchanged fire unjustifiably. But it’s still fair to question why Taylor and Walker were placed in this situation. Question if warrants are more freely giving out against black people. Question if it’s fair to this community to break down doors at 12:30am. Question if shots are fired and officers and civilians alike die, is the hoped for evidence worth it. Question, can this evidence be found without putting black lives at risk. This is BLM.

[jcardstore]

Originally Posted by rhigh2390

Just speaking for myself here. I disagree that there is a major, widespread issue. There have been instances where specific police officers have exercised bad judgement and should be held accountable. As a whole though, I do not at all think that the police are hunting down black people. Since people hear about the 10 that happen every year, they think it's daily, but do they not realize that police officers and citizens have millions of interactions every year without deadly force, including with black people? It's an agenda that the left wants to push. BLM protest regardless of if the shootings are justified, which just hurts their cause, in my opinion.

I think it's not solely a problem in black communities. I think it's an issue with policing in poor communities. There have been studies on police abuse and there is a direct correlation in higher levels of abuse in more impoverished areas. Now yes, I do agree that a higher level of poverty generally correlates with higher levels of crime but I also think that to get better at community engagement and policing the police need way way way way way more training, especially in deescalation. Most states don't even require you train in deescalation.

[pac213up]

The issue goes far beyond police shootings.

https://lasentinel.net/sentinel-excl...legations.html
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/ne...it/4398321002/
https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/cr...k3q-story.html
https://www.inquirer.com/crime/inq/f...-20180316.html

Yes people need to be compliant. Failing to do so puts everyone at greater risk. However police need to do a much better job dealing with the bad seeds. Letting these criminals run rampant for years in these departments and communities is not acceptable.