Longtime dealer Johnny Adams Jr. trimmed vintage cards and sold thru PWCC for years

[Pink Pussycat]

Originally Posted by HarryLime

I don't think the outrage is limited to 20 people, I just think we've reached the point of subject exhaustion for a lot of people. I mean, all things considered, what BODA has done is truly remarkable. Three dudes on an internet message board were able to expose fraud to such a degree that it forced an FBI investigation. When was the last time you heard about something like that happening? And for something like baseball cards? I mean, WOW.

Major national media outlets covered it, both in print and digital mediums. There's no way anyone can say that their work was anything short of a sensational success. My point was, all of that happened and the market hasn't so much as blipped downward. In fact, it may have gone up.

This is a hobby that people want to use to escape their day-to-day lives for a half hour everyday and just enjoy themselves. The overriding sentiment isn't them making a good investment or turning a profit, it's nostalgia. Nostalgia doesn't care about money made or money lost. Nostalgia shapes and changes memories to suit the needs of the person and that includes denial. People aren't going to allow anyone to take their nostalgia away from them.

This is DISPOSABLE income. Some people golf. Some people fish. SOme people drink expensive wine or like expensive watches. Some people collect cars. It's called disposable income because it's what people have that they don't mind tossing away just for entertainment. It might be hard to wrap one's mind around someone dropping $25,000 on a card and not caring if it's trimmed but some people have that type of money.

So when it comes to change, I think we're looking at whatever the feds dish out. Everyone seems to agree that this is all wrong and should not be allowed to happen but they also seem like they're tired of having their nostalgia crapped on every day for months on end. They just want to have their half-hour escape and talk to their buddies about cards and enjoy themselves before going back to work tomorrow. That's why I think there won't be any significant effect on the hobby or market. People want their nostalgia and they're willing to suspend belief to get it.

Arthur

Really pertinent insight, and well stated!

Still... I hate to see these guys getting away with murder while they continue to fatten their respective bank accounts. A tough pill for the honest hobbyist to swallow.

[superdan49]

PSA Cert #:27755528

1954 Bowman #11 Sid Gordon PSA 8 to PSA 10
Alteration types: Trimming
Set Registry status: The Hill Collection

Sold on 2/19/2017 as a PSA 8 by eBay seller probstein123 to johnnyadamsjr for $37.45
Consigned to PWCC and sold on 10/10/2017 as a PSA 10 for $3,605.00
Final price: $3,605.00
Value gain: $3,567.55!


An absolutely incredible monetary gain here on this trimmed 1954 Bowman Gordon card. The right edge has been trimmed, creating one of the two PSA 10's ever graded. The trimmed edge has been boxed in green in both obverse photos. The purple circles are paper fibers and/or print spots confirming the two images are of the same card. More information on this card to come shortly.


PSA 8: https://vintagecardprices.com/card/b...=&limit=999999
PSA 10: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1556385

[skurtis]

Originally Posted by HarryLime

I don't think the outrage is limited to 20 people, I just think we've reached the point of subject exhaustion for a lot of people. I mean, all things considered, what BODA has done is truly remarkable. Three dudes on an internet message board were able to expose fraud to such a degree that it forced an FBI investigation. When was the last time you heard about something like that happening? And for something like baseball cards? I mean, WOW.

Major national media outlets covered it, both in print and digital mediums. There's no way anyone can say that their work was anything short of a sensational success. My point was, all of that happened and the market hasn't so much as blipped downward. In fact, it may have gone up.

This is a hobby that people want to use to escape their day-to-day lives for a half hour everyday and just enjoy themselves. The overriding sentiment isn't them making a good investment or turning a profit, it's nostalgia. Nostalgia doesn't care about money made or money lost. Nostalgia shapes and changes memories to suit the needs of the person and that includes denial. People aren't going to allow anyone to take their nostalgia away from them.

This is DISPOSABLE income. Some people golf. Some people fish. SOme people drink expensive wine or like expensive watches. Some people collect cars. It's called disposable income because it's what people have that they don't mind tossing away just for entertainment. It might be hard to wrap one's mind around someone dropping $25,000 on a card and not caring if it's trimmed but some people have that type of money.

So when it comes to change, I think we're looking at whatever the feds dish out. Everyone seems to agree that this is all wrong and should not be allowed to happen but they also seem like they're tired of having their nostalgia crapped on every day for months on end. They just want to have their half-hour escape and talk to their buddies about cards and enjoy themselves before going back to work tomorrow. That's why I think there won't be any significant effect on the hobby or market. People want their nostalgia and they're willing to suspend belief to get it.

Arthur

I took a class on sustainable businesses in April. Farm to table on any massive scale is like 99% impossible, there was a Tampa Bay Times article basically exposing famer’s markets, the fishing industry and restaurant owners. It was nominated or won a Pulitzer.

Want to know what I am ashamed it took me 40 years to learn and you basically echo it: people want to pay 25% more for their food to feel good about themselves, like they saved the earth and did something good with minimal effort when in fact they just got ripped off. People don’t want the truth for the most part, they just want to feel good.

Oh, and you’re the whack job for trying to be the expert when the real experts say otherwise.

[ken161]

What an incredibly lucrative business model the card doctor has created. A little trim work and the price of this card increased by 96X. A better return on his "investment" than if the card doctor bought Apple stock in 2000.

I wonder when some of the set registry heavyweights are going to lose faith in PSA, if they haven't already?

Originally Posted by superdan49

PSA Cert #:27755528

1954 Bowman #11 Sid Gordon PSA 8 to PSA 10
Alteration types: Trimming
Set Registry status: The Hill Collection

Sold on 2/19/2017 as a PSA 8 by eBay seller probstein123 to johnnyadamsjr for $37.45
Consigned to PWCC and sold on 10/10/2017 as a PSA 10 for $3,605.00
Final price: $3,605.00
Value gain: $3,567.55!


An absolutely incredible monetary gain here on this trimmed 1954 Bowman Gordon card. The right edge has been trimmed, creating one of the two PSA 10's ever graded. The trimmed edge has been boxed in green in both obverse photos. The purple circles are paper fibers and/or print spots confirming the two images are of the same card. More information on this card to come shortly.


PSA 8: https://vintagecardprices.com/card/b...=&limit=999999
PSA 10: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1556385

[base set]

"you ain't gonna learn what you don't wanna know" - Barlow/Weir

[MoreToppsPlease]

Originally Posted by ken161

What an incredibly lucrative business model the card doctor has created. A little trim work and the price of this card increased by 96X. A better return on his "investment" than if the card doctor bought Apple stock in 2000.



I wonder when some of the set registry heavyweights are going to lose faith in PSA, if they haven't already?

Meh, as part of their business model, the doctor and his crew are most likely actively involved in finding ways to increase the value of their cards & slabs...aka the Buyers Club. Just one part of their operation includes alterations.

[corndog]

PSA Cert #27202550

PSA Set Registry: none

1951 Bowman Alvin Dark #14

Value gain of $634.13

This card was purchased by masked VCP ID m***h (Johnny Adams, Jr.) from Ebay seller www,stevenovella,com as a PSA 8 for $76.88 on July 14, 2016.
VCP link: https://vintagecardprices.com/card/b...=&limit=999999

Same card was sold by PWCC as a PSA 9 for $711.01 on July 09, 2017.
VCP link: https://vintagecardprices.com/card/b...14/69962/PSA/9

Yellow circles are print, fiber, or chipping identifiers.
Red box identifies trimmed top edge. Staining has been minimized on the back.

[corndog]

PSA Cert #27202548

PSA Set Registry: none

1951 Bowman Eddie Joost #119

Value gain of $681.07

This card was purchased by masked VCP ID m***h (Johnny Adams, Jr.) from Ebay seller www,stevenovella,com as a PSA 8 for $50.05 on July 14, 2016.
VCP link: https://vintagecardprices.com/card/b...19/69856/PSA/8

Same card was sold by PWCC as a PSA 9 for $731.12 on July 09, 2017.
VCP link: https://vintagecardprices.com/card/b...19/69856/PSA/9

Yellow circles are print, fiber, or chipping identifiers.
Red box identifies what appears to be a partially trimmed right edge - to even out the border. As usual, the PWCC scans are not real sharp.

[ken161]

Great detective work on this one, corndog. The outed card doctor thought he was being cagey by just cutting off a little.

This Eddie Joost card is a perfect example of why I no longer trust anything in a graded slab. I have to be honest and say if I looked at this trimmed card in person, I doubt it would appear altered to me. It's only when it's placed side-by-side next to its PSA8 ancestor that the trimming becomes evident.

It's escapes me how people can continue to pay huge sums for high-grade slabs. These card doctors, and there are a good number of them, are like buzzards, circling shows, eBay and the major auction houses 24/7/365 with talons bared. No cards is safe.

Never get cheated.

Originally Posted by corndog

PSA Cert #27202548

PSA Set Registry: none

1951 Bowman Eddie Joost #119

Value gain of $681.07

This card was purchased by masked VCP ID m***h (Johnny Adams, Jr.) from Ebay seller www,stevenovella,com as a PSA 8 for $50.05 on July 14, 2016.
VCP link: https://vintagecardprices.com/card/b...19/69856/PSA/8

Same card was sold by PWCC as a PSA 9 for $731.12 on July 09, 2017.
VCP link: https://vintagecardprices.com/card/b...19/69856/PSA/9

Yellow circles are print, fiber, or chipping identifiers.
Red box identifies what appears to be a partially trimmed right edge - to even out the border. As usual, the PWCC scans are not real sharp.

[corndog]

PSA Cert #27202540

PSA Set Registry: CUGoldenBuffalo

1952 Bowman Dick Littlefield #209 - population 1 of 8

Value gain of $232.52

This card was purchased by masked VCP ID m***h (Johnny Adams, Jr.) from Ebay seller tsc*c as a PSA 8 for $38.00 on September 28, 2016.
VCP link: https://vintagecardprices.com/card/b...09/69241/PSA/8

Same card was sold by PWCC as a PSA 9 for $270.52 on July 09, 2017.
VCP link: https://vintagecardprices.com/card/b...09/69241/PSA/9

Yellow circles are print, fiber, or chipping identifiers.
Red box identifies trimmed top edge.

[corndog]

PSA Cert #27202598

PSA Set Registry: none found

1952 Bowman Small John Rapacz #131 - population 1 of 2 - none graded higher

Value gain of $1,216.01

This card was purchased by masked VCP ID m***h (Johnny Adams, Jr.) from Ebay seller www,stevenovella,com as a PSA 8 for $86.99 on January 10, 2017.
VCP link: https://vintagecardprices.com/card/f...1/100665/PSA/8

Same card was sold by PWCC as a PSA 9 for $1,303.00 on July 17, 2017.
VCP link: https://vintagecardprices.com/card/f...1/100665/PSA/9

Yellow circles are print, fiber, or chipping identifiers.
Red boxes identify at least partially trimmed edges and corner work. In hand would have made it much easier to detect.

[superdan49]

PSA Cert #:41228101

1950 Bowman #248 Sam Jethroe PSA 8 to PSA 9
Alteration types: Trimming
Set Registry status: Barrefrank's 1950 Bowman Basic Set

Sold on 9/11/2017 as a PSA 8 by PWCC to johnnyadamsjr for $91.00
Consigned to PWCC and sold on 8/13/2018 as a PSA 9 for $1,126.01
Final price: $1,126.01
Value gain: $1,035.01!


The left edge of this 1950 Bowman Sam Jethroe card has been trimmed rather significantly, as seen from the red boxes. The green circles are print spots and/or stains that prove the images are of the same card. Regarding the grading, it's telling that Johnny Adams didn't think he had to get rid of that brown stain on the reverse to get this card upgraded. Moreover, in addition to the trimmed cards, this PSA submission (which I believe to be a PWCC "special clients" sub) is also full of grade bumps awarded by PSA of untrimmed cards sourced to Johnny Adams and then sold by PWCC.


PSA 8: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1540950
PSA 9: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1720566

[corndog]

***This card has received two grade bumps with no noticeable alteration.
The card was "purchased" the first two times by Johnny Adams, Jr.
All purchases and sales were thru PWCC.
I do not want to speculate on how this card was able to be grade bumped twice by PSA.


PSA Cert #27202604

PSA Set Registry: beatmasterplus

1951 Parkhurst Doug Bentley #48 - population 1 of 3

Value gain of $3,843.51

This card was initially purchased by masked VCP ID m***h (Johnny Adams, Jr.) from Ebay seller PWCC as a PSA 7 for $205.49 on April 27, 2016.
VCP link: https://vintagecardprices.com/card/h...48/75368/PSA/7

This card was listed at auction and "repurchased" by masked VCP ID m***h (Johnny Adams, Jr.) from Ebay seller PWCC as a PSA 8 for $706.00 on February 26, 2017.
VCP link: https://vintagecardprices.com/card/h...48/75368/PSA/8

Same card was for a third time sold by PWCC as a PSA 9 for $4,049.00 on July 19, 2017.
VCP link: https://vintagecardprices.com/card/h...48/75368/PSA/9

Yellow circles are print, fiber, or chipping identifiers.
I am unable to see any alterations performed. They appear to be grade bumps only.

[HarryLime]

• Johnny Adams submits the card to PWCC as a PSA 8.

• Card gets listed, Brent finally gets a chance to take a look at it.

• Brent: "Johnny, I'm pretty sure I can get this in a 9 holder. You need to win this auction and let me try."

• Brent submits and gets the card in the 9 holder.

• Profits are divvied up.

If anyone can give me a more plausible explanation as to why Johnny Adams got his card to a full grade bump and then, after it got into Brent's possession, suddenly decided it could get bumped another grade, I'm all ears.

Subpoena.

Arthur

[mhcook]

Originally Posted by HarryLime

• Johnny Adams submits the card to PWCC as a PSA 8.

• Card gets listed, Brent finally gets a chance to take a look at it.

• Brent: "Johnny, I'm pretty sure I can get this in a 9 holder. You need to win this auction and let me try."

• Brent submits and gets the card in the 9 holder.

• Profits are divvied up.

If anyone can give me a more plausible explanation as to why Johnny Adams got his card to a full grade bump and then, after it got into Brent's possession, suddenly decided it could get bumped another grade, I'm all ears.

Subpoena.

Arthur

The problem I have with this scenario is Brent gratuitously giving Adams $3k+. If Brent was confident he could bump this card for a huge profit, then I don't see him just giving that to Adams rather than doing it himself.

I would be more inclined to think Adams thought the 8 should sell for higher and bid what he decided was his minimum selling price, then when he got the card back in hand decided to give it another try with PSA. (Without any proof I think the card was modified at least once and probably twice.)

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[pip]

The corners on the 1951 Bentley got progressively sharper each time. I can only imagine how many fradulent high grade 1951 Parkhurst cards were sold/processed through PWCC. There's no way a card like this passes a black light test.

[HarryLime]

Originally Posted by mhcook

The problem I have with this scenario is Brent gratuitously giving Adams $3k+. If Brent was confident he could bump this card for a huge profit, then I don't see him just giving that to Adams rather than doing it himself.

I would be more inclined to think Adams thought the 8 should sell for higher and bid what he decided was his minimum selling price, then when he got the card back in hand decided to give it another try with PSA. (Without any proof I think the card was modified at least once and probably twice.)

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

Reduces the risk for Brent. He's still going to make his cut no matter what and if it's a *wink* I can get it in a 9 *wink* arrangement then he may have cut a larger portion for himself if he were successful. Meanwhile, he;s risking nothing.

Arthur

[MoreToppsPlease]

Originally Posted by HarryLime

• Johnny Adams submits the card to PWCC as a PSA 8.

• Card gets listed, Brent finally gets a chance to take a look at it.

• Brent: "Johnny, I'm pretty sure I can get this in a 9 holder. You need to win this auction and let me try."

• Brent submits and gets the card in the 9 holder.

• Profits are divvied up.

If anyone can give me a more plausible explanation as to why Johnny Adams got his card to a full grade bump and then, after it got into Brent's possession, suddenly decided it could get bumped another grade, I'm all ears.

Subpoena.

Arthur

Yes, we’ve said this has been happening all along. The big consignors are in the best position to see the most cards and can pick which ones are prime candidates for alterations and can also leverage their relationships with the grading companies to get multiple grade bumps.

[HarryLime]

Originally Posted by mhcook

The problem I have with this scenario is Brent gratuitously giving Adams $3k+. If Brent was confident he could bump this card for a huge profit, then I don't see him just giving that to Adams rather than doing it himself.

I would be more inclined to think Adams thought the 8 should sell for higher and bid what he decided was his minimum selling price, then when he got the card back in hand decided to give it another try with PSA. (Without any proof I think the card was modified at least once and probably twice.)

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

It also might give Brent *puke* plausible deniability *puke*.

My guess is that while Brent certainly had his hands in cards from consignors that weren't "in on it," he also had amicable relationship with the big time doctors who provided him with so much material that made him so much money. If he buys that 8, gets it into a 9 himself, and then sells it himself and Johnny sees that, I'm guessing Johnny isn't going to be too happy with Brent and he might take his business elsewhere.

And/or worse, he'd have an axe to grind with Brent.

I'd bet dollars to donuts that when it came to these "tip" cards, where Brent was telling the 12 Apostholes which cards were prime to be altered, he wasn't just getting his standard 9% or whatever it is. I'm willing to bet he got a much sweeter cut of the pie.

Arthur

[ken161]

PWCC described the trimmed 1954 Sid Gordon PSA10 below as follows:

"Absolutely gorgeous '54 Bowman Gordon which represents the single finest example in the hobby. A completely pack fresh stunner which boasts four deadly sharp corners, exceptional centering and undeniable GEM MINT card stock. The borders are completely pristine, edges are flawless and the surfaces are absolutely gorgeous. A perfect card which is deserving of serious attention."

One of the ironies here is that the PSA8 that was bought and chopped up by the card doctor was already a very nice card. Although I don't know the pre-PSA8 background on this card, it's not outside the realm of possibility that this card came from an Alan Rosen find. If I'm not mistaken, several dozen boxes of 54 Bowman were found in Paris, TN in the 1980s. There generally tends to be a good amount of "pack-fresh" cards available from this set, considering the era. So it's entirely possible that a truly "pack-fresh" card was put under the knife. I guess we can call the PSA10 "laboratory-fresh"

Originally Posted by superdan49

PSA Cert #:27755528

1954 Bowman #11 Sid Gordon PSA 8 to PSA 10
Alteration types: Trimming
Set Registry status: The Hill Collection

Sold on 2/19/2017 as a PSA 8 by eBay seller probstein123 to johnnyadamsjr for $37.45
Consigned to PWCC and sold on 10/10/2017 as a PSA 10 for $3,605.00
Final price: $3,605.00
Value gain: $3,567.55!


An absolutely incredible monetary gain here on this trimmed 1954 Bowman Gordon card. The right edge has been trimmed, creating one of the two PSA 10's ever graded. The trimmed edge has been boxed in green in both obverse photos. The purple circles are paper fibers and/or print spots confirming the two images are of the same card. More information on this card to come shortly.


PSA 8: https://vintagecardprices.com/card/b...=&limit=999999
PSA 10: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1556385

[superdan49]

Originally Posted by ken161

PWCC described the trimmed 1954 Sid Gordon PSA10 below as follows:

"Absolutely gorgeous '54 Bowman Gordon which represents the single finest example in the hobby. A completely pack fresh stunner which boasts four deadly sharp corners, exceptional centering and undeniable GEM MINT card stock. The borders are completely pristine, edges are flawless and the surfaces are absolutely gorgeous. A perfect card which is deserving of serious attention."

One of the ironies here is that the PSA8 that was bought and chopped up by the card doctor was already a very nice card. Although I don't know the pre-PSA8 background on this card, it's not outside the realm of possibility that this card came from an Alan Rosen find. If I'm not mistaken, several dozen boxes of 54 Bowman were found in Paris, TN in the 1980s. There generally tends to be a good amount of "pack-fresh" cards available from this set, considering the era. So it's entirely possible that a truly "pack-fresh" card was put under the knife. I guess we can call the PSA10 "laboratory-fresh"

The PWCC catalog descriptions must be read ironically to truly savor them.

[superdan49]

PSA Cert #:25237718

1954 Bowman #3 Marion Fricano PSA 8 to PSA 10
Alteration types: Corner repaired
Set Registry status: The Hill Collection

Sold on 11/30/2015 as a PSA 8 by eBay seller probstein123 to johnnyadamsjr for $46.67
Consigned to PWCC and sold on 3/7/2016 as a PSA 10 for $2,480.00
Final price: $2,480.00
Value gain: $2,433.33!


Here is another PSA 8 1954 Bowman card bought by the eBay ID johnnyadamsjr, altered, graded a PSA 10 Gem Mint, and first sold through PWCC. The upper right front corner has been cleaned up and artificially sharpened, which apparently was the only flaw in the PSA 8. This PSA 10 is a Pop 1, but it only exists due to the handiwork of a card doctor. The repaired corner is boxed in pink (see the magnified image composite below as well). Paper fibers and print marks which prove the two images are the same card are circled in yellow. If anyone knows the owner of The Hill Collection PSA Registry Set, please reach out to them and let them know this is another PSA 10 in their set that is the product of alteration.


PSA 8: https://vintagecardprices.com/card/b...-3/68028/PSA/8
PSA 10: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1242719

[pspa123]

I wonder if Hill is eager to lose his #1 ranking.

[pspa123]

Originally Posted by superdan49

The PWCC catalog descriptions must be read ironically to truly savor them.

Yeah, he was probably laughing when he wrote, deadly sharp corners.

[superdan49]

Originally Posted by pspa123

I wonder if Hill is eager to lose his #1 ranking.

It would be interesting to know how many registry owners have refused the refunds. We still don't know if PWCC is reaching out to the original buyers only or if they are trying to find the current owners.